Author Topic: Relationship/s  (Read 94795 times)

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship
« Reply #315 on: December 16, 2019, 08:06:35 PM »
Well, my own T at 2:00 is a perfect setup for couples-T at 3:00 (half a block away). In the new year she'll have to change the day, but I enjoyed this while it lasted. There will be benefits from not doing both the same day too (one thing being I'll be less likely to make first-hour all about the second-hour...which isn't just for me).

It was good in both sessions. My T listened to me dump a lot of anxiety buildup over the trip and some of M's not-hearing-me behaviors. Then we went to couple-T, who is very smart and insightful and tends to be able to state the bottom line of what I'm struggling to describe. I think we were lucky to find him.

Long story short, he suggested that M respond to me setting a boundary with a specific phrase, "I hear you and I love you." As a way of reminding himself. And for me, he encouraged me to be willing to be more authoritative in my own behalf in terms of stating what I need (drawing boundaries) and not being fearful of sticking to it.

That was great. And because I've been feeling a need to focus on myself and not have so many M-messages (morning, afternoon and evening emails, plus periodic voicemails and an evening call) coming in at the moment, particularly as I'm gearing up for a long and daunting trip (plus holiday gifts for him and his family, etc)...T asked M, would it be all right with you if she makes the next step toward you, are you content to wait for that? M said, of course (never mind my past experience with him absolutely freaking out). I think in part he said it because he admires and wants to impress Sikh-T. Works for me!

We had a nice dinner together and then M said as he left, I'll wait to hear from you, and I just said thank you, that would be great. Interestingly, he came up instantly with two other "urgent" things he might still need to contact me about...(bringing over his fig plant so my housesitter can water it--hellloooo, we don't leave until the 23rd--and one other small pretext-for-contact that I can't recall). And I just said No, neither of those are urgent.

So we'll see. I'll probably just take a day or two to shake off the ritual contacts I'd begun to feel a little smothered by. And then be ready to receive (and even enjoy) them again. It's just the way I am. Comes a point when it feels as though he's literally programming me to never stop thinking about him for five minutes.

I think about him anyway. But he works MUCH too hard to ensure I never stop, and for me it's been getting out of balance. This T session was a huge help. I like the T a lot. He and I often connect through eye contact while M is on a talking roll. Not condescending, just a glance that tells me he completely sees all that's happening and is holding us both in a compassionate and very alert way.

Hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Twoapenny

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Re: Relationship
« Reply #316 on: December 17, 2019, 01:46:22 AM »
Aw, Hops, the T does sound great, really good match for you, I would think, and somehow even nicer than he is Sikh, as I imagine a good experience with a religious person will be a good thing for you after so many negatives?  Provides a bit of balance for you :)

Yes, there are lines, aren't there?  Someone wanting to hear your voice is lovely.  Someone contacting you so often that you can't hear your own voice isn't.  I do get and understand that completely.  Some people really like that sort of constant contact but it's the sort of thing that drives me nuts :)  We're just all different, aren't we, in so many ways.  I'm really glad you and M have this nice T to help you through things and that M is taking it all onboard (at least in the office, at any rate!).  I hope he is able to ease off a little bit and let you breath through the holiday season, Hops.  It would be nice for you to be able to enjoy the time with his family xx

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship
« Reply #317 on: December 17, 2019, 11:37:09 AM »
Quote
Someone wanting to hear your voice is lovely.  Someone contacting you so often that you can't hear your own voice isn't.  I do get and understand that completely.

Maybe YOU could be a sorta-T, Tupp!

Your responses to things are so succinct, compassionate and direct. Thank you.

Hey, they have online counseling these days....I'm sure there are sites that hire non-professionals who communicate well who can either correspond with someone or talk to them over Skype. Well, I'm not sure. I'm just making it up.

I would "counsel by email" any time. I read a few good advice columnists (Carolyn Hax at the Post started as a copyeditor, and so did Dear Prudence of Slate.com), most of whom are NOT psychologists...and always wished I could do that job.

Hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship
« Reply #318 on: December 20, 2019, 09:19:17 PM »
Hi All,
I'll probably contradict myself by posting like mad over the next couple days, but just in case I don't, that'd mean I've yielded to reality and am trying to finalize my trip-prep in calm so I don't get all stressed before we leave Monday the 23rd. I may be able to post from Costa Rica but am generally hoping to go cold turkey, internet wise. I'll have access if I need it but hope I can stay more in the present moment and present place and busy absorbing whatever this new thing is going to be. (I'd better be open to learning all I can as I may be there twice a year.)

I'm in a much better place about the trip than I was. We'd worked out w/couple-T that I didn't want so much "checking in" contact withe M for a couple days, and the peace of that did me wonders!

Tonight we went to dinner and had a great time. M started when he got to the house after cuddles saying, "It was rough..." and I right away said, I understand, but those feelings are for you to work out in your own therapy. And he didn't argue! So I didn't let him make me responsible for soothing him and I think he actually got it. Big relief. Anyway, we really enjoyed being together.

Came back here and did early-Xmas gift exchange, since it'd be dumb to schlep presents to Central Am. He gave me a very thoughtful gift. A weighted blanket, which I'd once read for some folks with ADD and/or insomnia (mine's awful), can be very helpful. Perfect! I gave him a hinge-framed set of pix: one of us together at a restaurant I'd asked a server to take....and an epically cute one of him laughing with Pooch on his lap at a winery. I also gave him as a joke (unframed) a collage print of the same two, which for some reason came out with a fat bottom margin. On that space under the pic of we two I wrote with  a Sharpie, "100%" and under the one of him with Pooch,"49%." (That referred to our lengthy negotiation about who owns my dog, which we settled on being I own her 51% and he 49%, and his half is the back half.) He loved both. I also gave him a DNA kit, which I figure should be interesting for a historian. He's interested!

It was affectionate, relaxed and fun. I do love the man.

Turns out if I set and hold the boundaries I need, I'm freer to love him when I'm with him. Duh. Will take practice but I'm determined to get more comfortable with it.

So I'll probably be posting again very soon but either way, will definitely be typing here again by mid-January, latest.

In the meantime, Happy New Year early, y'all. I love you and send each of you mucho hopes for your happiness.

Hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

sKePTiKal

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Re: Relationship
« Reply #319 on: December 21, 2019, 09:52:48 AM »
Hugs Hops... I hope you both have a lovely time! Sounds like a great idea to get away from the cold for a little bit.
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lighter

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Re: Relationship
« Reply #320 on: December 21, 2019, 12:06:02 PM »
Hops!  I'm so glad you're feeling so relaxed around the trip.  That's wonderful: )

Take pictures. I used to keep travel journals with local plants, wine labels, and details I'd forget if not jotting things down.

We'll miss you!

Lighter

sKePTiKal

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Re: Relationship
« Reply #321 on: December 22, 2019, 12:15:09 PM »
HA! While I'll miss Hops' warm unique way with words and compassion... I'm expecting a complete travelogue and romance story when she comes back!! LOL   (not really, but I am nosy...)

An amazon slumber party kind of thing...
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Hopalong

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Re: Relationship
« Reply #322 on: January 09, 2020, 02:18:46 AM »
Got in an hour ago...all is well.
Mellow Pooch, my sweet home.

It's going to take me a good while to catch up with y'all.
I read your posts every chance I got but could barely reply
with two-finger typing and episodic access. Missed being in
the daily flow here! And I'm sorry not to have offered support
to y'all every day as you always have me. I'll try to catch up
but please forgive me in advance if it's pretty inadequate.

SO much to say about this trip and I'm too wired to sleep so
I'll try at least a little summary.

It was exciting and wonderful to see Costa Rica and M's other life.
His family is very kind but so upper-class they are more formal than I enjoy.
But they liked me and I liked them too, despite the language barriers. At our
last dinner at an amazing restaurant in San Jose a woman came up to our
table and said she just had to tell us what fun it was to hear us bouncing
back and forth between languages. I was speaking English with M's brother
beside me on one side, French with his Chilean brother-in-law on the other
side. M was speaking mostly Spanish with his sister and other brother on
each side of him but English across the table to me, as his sister was too.
It was fun. The place was a huge old home originally owned by the Central
America equivalent of the Nabisco family, renovated into an astonishing place
by a couple of wealthy Canadians 18 years ago. For some reason there are
a lot of Canadian expats there.

Where to start. First few days we were in M's big condo (my house and a
half) that overlooks the city but closer in, a nature reserve. The combo makes
an amazing view. My favorite tree is called "fire in the forest" -- orange flowers
all over the canopy. Birds, you can imagine. The place is stunning and I'm happy
I got to stay there as he thinks it's finally sold, and is negotiating that now. Huge
relief for him as he was sick of managing it from the US and truly doesn't need
or want it any more. Those days included Xmas Eve and a few more visits with
family...all of whom (lost count) are really lovable and made me very welcome.

Next week was different. We were in M's house in the jungle in Guanacaste,
about four hours away on the Pacific coast. Really stunning property he designed
and planned from the house (with a tower like Hemingway's) to the gardens and
stone gateposts after a place in Spain he loved. He's extremely and deservedly
proud of it. Spacious, lovely, comfortable and very isolated. It was three days
before I met anyone else who spoke English. (Nice Canadian neighbors.)

What happened was that this was too much isolation and togetherness, and M
began to express frustration and criticisms he never had before so bluntly, and
his personality -- chiefly his habit of nonstop talk, including when we finally did
have the neighbors come up for champagne and he talked/lectured the entire
time and nobody else got a word in...and I just couldn't take it. Even though his
professor-knowledge about EVERYTHING is unmatched (culture, history, food, on
and on and on) he just dominates constantly. Later we argued and I suddenly roared
at him that I couldn't STAND the way he talked about his architect. It felt to me that M's
ego combined with his pride in the place just took off, and he repeatedly bragged and bragged
so much about all the wonderful things he did, and knows, and understands, and designs,
and he explains (to EVERYONE at EVERY opportunity) that for a time I just couldn't stand
him. He came off like an arrogant clueless braggart and though I understood him, I didn't
LIKE him. His knowledge is encyclopedic (neighbors looked both impressed and repressed
by the monologue) and on its own fascinating, but he's so pedantic and way too determined
to force-teach anyone about everything at every occasion.

It was very painful and I suddenly wanted badly to go home and felt like ending the
relationship. I got myself together and calmed down, but it was tense and miserable.
It was a huge relief to get back to San Jose and the spacious condo and the tension
drained away and we got back to a happy way of interacting and enjoyed the rest of
the trip. We had a lot of fun traveling, in airports, etc., and got back to loving each
other again. But those days in the jungle house were a revelation and not a happy one.
We were peaceful and playful together back at the condo and cooperated happily on
domestic stuff, lazing about, making meals, tidying up for the potential buyer. Confusing.
(Maybe that means a city house here would be okay? I'm full of doubt but still some hope.)

I'm not freaking out about it (yet), but I'm newly unsure whether I could live with him. I just
don't know that I can adapt to him FT because it is so difficult for him to control himself
verbally. One bright note is that he expressed interest in being formally evaluated for
ADHD, which I think could help. And we're still going to be doing the T together, which
always helps. We might wind up as long-term companions who never marry, which is
fine except that if I'm honest, I fear walking away from that security he's offering.
If the T is a miracle worker maybe he can teach M how not to drive me away. I know he
loves (and needs) me and I do love him still. But that week in the jungle left me unsure,
emotionally unsafe, and so stressed (I had tachycardia so bad it woke me up) that I
suddenly thought of his personality issues as health risks for me. He doesn't grasp
his effect on me without a big struggle. He isn't connecting with his impact on others.

Another thing that was important is seeing him in the context of that family and that
country and hearing so much more about it that I realize he really has felt rootless in
some ways, living in several countries...and that plus whatever it is in his brain that
causes such agitated and unaware behavior is really about running. He proposed a
bunch more trips and I haven't been able to tell him yet but this one was really too
much for me. Managed not to get sick but did learn that nonstop togetherness with
him is not possible for me. I'd lose my mind. (I did grasp how torn he feels between
two cultures, and how the jungle house in its traditional village area represents TRUE
home-in-Costa-Rica to him.) He wants to keep it and come there for long stays (a month
or several) and I couldn't bring myself to tell him I don't care if I never go there again.
The roads were so rutted it killed my back every time we went anywhere and the lack
of anyone else to talk to would not be good for me over time. MAYBE if we'd gotten
very happy and calm as a couple and I were writing....but as of now, it's not for me.)

So that's the big (and confusing) bottom line. Not sorry I went but it's NOT okay that
he will talk and talk and talk and not let up until I'm so stressed my heart acts up.

And yet for the last few days it was lovely, peaceful and cooperative. Maybe because
I knew we were heading home soon, and because at the condo we had huge space
and he was less excited about talking (nonstop) about the jungle house. Dunno, dunno.
We also did get some talking in that was about us, and about him and his family dynamics
and a lot of other things, in the way we have always done well at times, so it felt more real.

SO glad to be here again.

love,
Hops
PS Costa Rican food is just incredible. Most dishes are simple but every ingredient
is so fresh the flavors are fantastic. I don't eat meat or poultry but we had fresh
fish nearly every day and vegetables that just sang.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2020, 02:24:17 AM by Hopalong »
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Twoapenny

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Re: Relationship
« Reply #323 on: January 09, 2020, 04:05:33 AM »
Ah, Hops.  Well I'm glad the good bits were good and I'm glad you were able to express your frustrations - I do think it's good that you're not afraid to tell him what you think and how you feel.

It's not good, of course, that he induces that level of stress in you at times.  Perhaps he does need a stimulating environment, rather than an isolated one, to keep his brain ticking over on other things?  Perhaps he could do some of his trips without you as you go forward - absence making the heart fonder and all that.  Do you think he feels pressured when with family and was then 'letting off steam' afterwards when things calmed down?  They sound nice and friendly but we all know how much can bubble underneath the surface with family situations.

I'm glad you're so honest with yourself about the situation and that you don't try to sugar coat yourself.  It's hard to be honest about things we don't want in our lives.  I still hope you can find a way forward that suits you both and works for both of you, because the love does seem genuine and sincere.  Glad Pooch was all good when you got back.  Rest well, sleep lots and look forward to hearing more later xx

lighter

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Re: Relationship
« Reply #324 on: January 09, 2020, 11:34:27 AM »
I'm glad you're back, ((Hops.))

IME travel is fraught with stress and opportunity for revelation.  Just exhausting and exciting and amazing in bouts, IME.

M is still who he is, even if he's working on his more negative traits.  They're a part of him.

I kind of think the T will help you two straighten all this out.  Much confidence there.

The points that stick out for me were how negative the jungle home is FOR YOU and how much trouble it creates between you and M.  I have the feeling M sensed your reluctance to be smitten and impressed and that reluctance brought out his insistence and overbearing ego/shadow side.  I withdraw when I feel that way too and it never makes things better, IME.  The person requiring reassurance, attention and admiration tend to get desperate, which makes me withdraw even more,IME and it snowballs from there.

I was also concerned about M's expressing bluntly his frustrations and criticisms of you, I presume?  Did he make it very personal and if so, did you feel this is how he'll begin treating you more and more often?

I guess you couldn't expect to get through that much travel completely unscathed.  M struggles.  He's going to struggle.  It's a process to make big change. 

You have the good and the bad to sort out in all this.  Like any relationship. I'm very curious about what the T will say about the trip.

Ther's going to have to be strategies for you when you're feeling trapped and yacked at incessantly, IMO.  You have to have a way to mitigate the stress on your health, and not trigger M into more uncontrolled behavior.  I really do believe he loses ability to see what he's doing and how it affects others.

Rest up.  Snuggle pooch.  It's going to be OK.

Lighter
 

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship
« Reply #325 on: January 09, 2020, 10:08:33 PM »
Thank you so much, ((((Tupp)))). I'm so very sorry you had a hellishly sad Xmas. I have had so many and all I can offer is that year over year, the holidays do become less powerful. Thank god. I'll offer more over on your threads as I catch up. Just...hugs to you.

Quote
Perhaps he does need a stimulating environment, rather than an isolated one, to keep his brain ticking over on other things? 
I think that's very true. Maybe when he's alone with me and his hyperbrain is needing that he drills into me as the handiest topic to examine critically at times. I just can't allow it, so he will have to deal. I thought it was interesting that he expressed some interest in confronting ADHD. It would be wonderful if he learned that though it's wonderful to have a brilliant brain, there are downsides to having a manic one. At least in the wear and tear on personal relationships, or his with me anyway. I do think the T is a safe zone for us and the miracle after this trip is, there's still love there. No guarantees and I will not delude myself. Thank you for seeing THAT part of me. I'm grateful.

Perhaps he could do some of his trips without you as you go forward - absence making the heart fonder and all that. 
He'll have no choice, because I'm not going to take unlimited trips with him unless I feel confident I won't be trapped in a grinding bickering session with him again. It goes both ways, I can dish it out too when I'm feeling strong, but it's my model of misery (had that ongoing especially in my first marriage and it ruined it) and I would rather die alone and poor than repeat that for the years before dying. i can't take it. Literally. (Heart.) In fact, the trip he plans for us in April-May to Spain and Portugal was to be a whole lot of driving and he's now realizing that because of my back pain, it may not be wise. I told him I'm not sure I will be up to going and will let him know either way in time to cancel. My back was very painful this time and the drive he said would be three hours turned out to be six, the last two on jolting, rutted jungle roads. Exciting to see but in the shape I'm currently in, way too painful. I plan to get more PT shortly and also begin an exercise class, because I don't have to be in pain always if I get my ass moving again. That's on me. I've let myself go and it'll be hard work to regain fitness but there is no more excuse.

Do you think he feels pressured when with family and was then 'letting off steam' afterwards when things calmed down?
Yes. I think being in Costa Rica triggers all sorts of complicated emotions of loss and feeling rootless and conflict with who he was groomed to be and who he actually became (which took a lot of guts)...and the cost he felt (loss of that idyllic childhood in paradise) as he acquired his freedom. I don't think he's ever made peace with it all, which is part of the reason he travels so much. In transition, he feels most at home. Plus, with constant stimulation. Exciting but exhausting. And even if he was letting off steam, I have to be firm in setting boundaries that make clear he must find other ways to deal with his jangled feelings than acting them out with me. That's on him, it's his work, and I will support but not do it for him. I don't know yet whether he'll dive deep enough in therapy to do that kind of growth. I hope it for him and for both of us.

How you manage to be so wise and kind when caught in some pain and reckoning and dealing with tough realities of your own never ceases to startle and inspire me, Tupp. Thank you.

Hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship
« Reply #326 on: January 09, 2020, 10:22:25 PM »
Lighter, you are so perceptive. You really do see his needs/behaviors with such clarity. Thank you.

Quote
I have the feeling M sensed your reluctance to be smitten and impressed and that reluctance brought out his insistence and overbearing ego/shadow side.  I withdraw when I feel that way too and it never makes things better, IME.  The person requiring reassurance, attention and admiration tend to get desperate....

You're right. He really is desperate for it. And I am equally desperate, or determined, not to be the sole source of admiration/supply for him. I can't and won't deliver. It is TOO MUCH LIKE LIFE WITH N-MOM. So with T's help, I hope I can get him to see that doing deep work on his own to answer his own unmet core needs is the only way I can stay by his side, encouraging him in the work but not becoming a substitute target for his upsets and frustrations. That is not what I could or want to do in a late-life marriage or partnership. As amazing as M is, he has waited 'til very late in life to begin a bit of self-analysis, and it really is up to him whether he is brave enough to "go there" without resenting me for requiring it. He does lack emotional maturity and self-control. I don't really "require" that he take on self discovery, actually. But I know that if he doesn't take responsibility for learning what's beneath the things he does that grind at healthy connection, and especially his appetite for his own verbosity over everything...I'll leave. That's the blunt truth. No rush but I could see it coming, in that isolated place. Too soon to call it and things did get better. But there it is.

Quote
I was also concerned about M's expressing bluntly his frustrations and criticisms of you, I presume?  Did he make it very personal and if so, did you feel this is how he'll begin treating you more and more often?

That's the most important question and why I felt a red flag might be waving. By the time we made it back to San Jose it was obvious that he too wanted the tension to end and that it troubled him a lot that it had happened. But if any man will go there once, there is fear that he'll do it again. M is quite dominant when he wants to be and if I'm feeling strong I can hand it right back to him and refuse to accept that. What I need to feel in a relationship is both safety and permission to be NOT strong. M adores my intellectual strength and the ways I challenge him like an equal, when I do. But when I'm not well he glazes over. He even said at one point about something I'd raised, "I am not interested in the details." The irony of that overwhelmed me, because when he's talking or giving one of his unwanted or even exhausting pedantic lectures he could care less if HIS audience is "interested in the details." There it was in a nutshell. My worry is that I'm pushing seventy and have a need to feel emotionally safe. Not cosseted but certain that no one will treat me in an unkind or ruthless way, even just in discussion. Because whether or not I should ever revert to scared inner child, I can. And I don't want a mate who would do that kind of stuff when I'm most vulnerable. He talks a blue streak about love, but does lack empathy. And it worries me. 

I'm glad you feel confident about our T; I do as well. He's quite brilliant himself and I hope he can get through to M. Either way, I'm going to continue to take care of myself and move forward in my life with some of my own goals for my home, and my writing, and my friendships and other activities. I can't afford to keep M front and center in my vision all the time, as much as he professes he does the same with me. Being loved is great, being smothered is not. Especially by someone you feel you can't trust completely until he develops some self insight. Insight is everything, because without it, one deflects responsibility forever.

It all, always, comes back to the reciprocity thing. M may feel that if he provides, I owe him the nonstop listening. But my nature is such that it can be tormenting to me. And I did tell him at one point that I know I need both love and freedom in a relationship, but if I'm ever forced to choose one, it'd be freedom. I think that sunk in. We'll see.

Thanks again for these insights.

Hugs and HNY,
Hops


« Last Edit: January 09, 2020, 10:53:01 PM by Hopalong »
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sKePTiKal

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Re: Relationship
« Reply #327 on: January 10, 2020, 08:41:40 AM »
Hi Hops! Glad you're home and that you had some fabulous time on your trip, even if there was something tough to deal with, come up. I've kept 2 "man tests" in my head for years... one is setting up a tent with him - takes clear communication and absolute concentration and cooperation. The other is some sort of "road trip" experience - both people are outside their normal environment and encountering new situations and people and sometimes trials & tribulations.

I can sympathize with your need to retreat from the professorial "talkiness". I have a D like that; in her case she's designated her sweetie as some kind of emotional security blanket and when he leaves for work - the talkiness goes into overdrive, she turns critical - all while proclaiming how objective and "right" her observations are and it can get nasty. Abandonment issues? Daddy issues? (I'm suspecting but not sure.)

On the one hand, I'd say that there are lots worse things to put up with than that non-stop verbosity BUT when it turns into a personal, relational critique I gotta agree with you about how serious an issue it is. It's related to judgement, I think - based on some inner needs that a healthy relationship ISN'T supposed to meet. The judgement is almost like a temper tantrum - demanding, angry, and projecting the obligation to meet the need (because the person doesn't know how to?) onto others. "Make me feel good" seems to be the implied message. Or "why are you not impressed with my awesomeness?" and "How dare you have a different perception, opinion or feeling than I do?"

Rather than get assertive and make some sharp retorts to this or put on the all-powerful "mom" hat - I've just been quietly physically removing myself from the conversation. If I stay and stand my ground, it begins to escalate into out & out confrontation. I seldom have the energy for that and she IS stronger than I am and refuses to be humble or just human... even though she BS's a good game - it's a distortion of her impacts on other people. I am not her only target; her friend John who is here has taken the same thing. Having someone else around - to confirm my perception or see something I missed or perceive it differently - has been helpful. We often debrief and that's been an oasis for me and a relief from abject misery over what kind of torture she's going through internally to feel the need to express it outwardly and project it onto others.

I hope M is continuing his personal therapy Hops. The couples T can help with toolkits but I think this behavior (which is only one thing "wrong", right?) of his needs to be unpacked, sorted, processed, and dealt with too. John and I keep bringing that up to Hol, too but without pressuring her.
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CB123

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Re: Relationship
« Reply #328 on: January 10, 2020, 09:29:43 AM »
Hops,

The thing that concerns me is that his critical, attacking behavior only occurred when you were isolated with him and ended when you reached civilization. That would be a red flag for me, but sadly was not when I went through it. As a matter of fact, I reacted similarly as you, mostly such relief after it was over that I was willing to keep trying.

I found that the issues that were very real could have been an opportunity for me to do some self-examination about why I reacted the way I did. My initial (and long-term) response was to verbally analyze him, to be part of his enlightenment, in a sense, I wanted to be his savior I think. I would like to have those years back. I would like to have back the energy I spent trying to make him my safe place.

It's a hell of a process disentangling from it. The turmoil interspersed with sheer joy is addictive. I'm still discovering ways in which it changed me.

CB
When they are older and telling their own children about their grandmother, they will be able to say that she stood in the storm, and when the wind did not blow her way -- and it surely has not -- she adjusted her sails.  Elizabeth Edwards 2010

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship
« Reply #329 on: January 10, 2020, 06:48:32 PM »
Thank you, ((((((((((CB)))))))))))).
A sober warning I know you came by with intense direct experience.
I promise it's in my mind and will come up with my (and our) T.

One difference is my fears of impoverished old age, plus how genuine I think his appreciation is of me, most of the time.

I think getting a clear-eyed total view will still take (and deserves) more time, and more insight from both my-T and our-T.

I won't pledge my life to M unless I get a real sense that he's committed to a deep dive. Some hope, for me, lies in how motivated he is by knowledge. I think it's possible, though hardly guaranteed, that he'll actually embark on this kind of inner work. It's more learning, and he lives for knowledge.

Until I know, I don't want to toss the baby with the bathwater. But I'm nowhere near as dedicated to sustaining something unsupportable as I was for so long years back, particularly in my second marriage.

M is startled by how determined I am to NOT move into deeper commitment with him. He thinks once love is declared it's "as simple as that". I couldn't disagree more and won't budge unless I see real evidence that it's going to be sane and sound.

I value and appreciate your warnings. One difference in our lives, and a big one, is that I have no family whatsoever, at my back. No children who would shelter or care about what happens to me in old age. Unfortunately, that's a real factor in my considerations now. I'm trying full-heartedly to keep that in balance, and my T supports those questions in both scenarios.

I won't give myself over to maltreatment, ever. I am way way too stubborn and feisty for that. And if I don't see evidence that he begins to understand the difference between doting and empathy, I will step away.

Hey. I had very good luck in meeting him online and have had an amazing year with him I will never regret no matter what the long-term outcome is. And there's absolutely nothing to prevent me from doing it again if M and I don't make it for the long haul.

I'm grateful for all this experience. I'm really glad I ventured it. And I still have hopes for us. Just not expectations, which is for me a huge difference.

Reality is still my (best) friend.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."