Author Topic: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves  (Read 1677 times)

Hopalong

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Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #180 on: August 05, 2019, 01:28:26 PM »
Tupp, hon, I know you're not into religion.
So maybe there's some secular program that might be comparable.

But I thought I'd describe anyway something I find important about the church community I'm in. I'm possibly going to be what they call a "pastoral visitor" -- a small team that goes through a little training in empathic listening, and volunteers for regular visits to various members who are isolated or having a hard time. Not out of pity. Not out of superiority. Not out of anything except the certain knowledge that isolation and loneliness are killers of hope and possibility and that everyone deserves to know they're not alone. Some people are just made for it, and take serious satisfaction in hearing others. It goes both ways, the benefit.

Sometimes, miraculously, people will actually reach out for it without others having to guess. And if there's any way you can do that with some sort of similar program, while trusting that a visit from a person drawn to kindness and who has a spiritual value of compassion and sees the need for caring listening as common emotional sense, nothing unusual whatsoever....would improve your life enormously.

I can't imagine how meaningful and healing it could be for you to pour your heart out in DETAIL, while being listened to WITH CONCENTRATION (which most of our friends can't provide). And regularly. So that kind of person would be incorporated into your life as, I dunno, an auntie. A village elder. Somebody who doesn't try to fix it (you're doing a damn good job of navigating all that), but genuinely cares about HEARING it.

Doing this in 3-D as well as here, I believe, could make the essential difference between what's difficult and what causes despair.

I think of religious organizations (including Buddhist) as one place to find this. And just describing your isolation and yearning to be "checked on" by someone who cares, as honestly as you have here, is all it would take. A little courage to be vulnerable with a pastor or Buddhist teacher, but allowing for the possibility of that good thing happening.

love to you,
Hops

PS When Things Fall Apart by Pema Chodron...huge huge help when I felt I was nearly dying from stress in isolation. She's probably one reason Buddhist community crossed my mind. That plus your bald head! :)

« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 01:30:41 PM by Hopalong »
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #181 on: August 06, 2019, 07:12:34 PM »
Happy Birthday this week, Tupp.  I hope you have a lovely celebration with your friend.  Something you really enjoy doing.

I wanted to share book recommendations from my T for overcoming codependency.

The first is Conquering Shame and Codependency by Darlene Lancer.

The second is Facing Codependence by Pia Mellody, and the third is called Breaking Free, a Recovery Workbook by Pia Mellody that goes along with Facing Codependence. 

I'm ordering them tonight.... I've been procrastinating. 

Lighter


Garbanzo

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Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #182 on: August 07, 2019, 02:19:09 AM »
HAPPY NOT GETTING OLDER DAY

lighter

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Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #183 on: August 07, 2019, 02:59:59 PM »
Currently reading HAPPINESS by Thich Nhat Hanh.  My T lent it to me, and I just knew she'd put a book in my hands today.  So useful. 

I ordered the 3 I listed PLUS the book PEACE IS EVERY STEP  by Thich Nhat Hanh.

It's time to practice consistently, and have tools to get me back on track when I struggle.

So many moving pieces, and learning how to put them down, so I can focus on being here, now, is the trick to having control over flipping the ON OFF switch for being present.... being in the zone... etc. 

Call it what I have, it's learning to get myself back in the moment, and re set old pathways so THIS is my default.

20 - 60 days of practice. 

::BIG BREATH::.

I might journal about this. 

I might write about it on the board. 

Will see.

Lighter


Hopalong

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Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #184 on: August 08, 2019, 03:54:30 PM »
Tupp, I want to apologize for mumbling on about church settings again...it's not appropriate. It's not RELIGION I imagine for you (in any way), it's community and comfort. That's it.

And you're already taking all kinds of steps, from forest groups to a dream of a future gathering place...that are your OWN ideas about community and comfort.

I'm just busting myself about my own urges to fix. I honestly am so grateful for your openness and sharing...you are an inspirational person for me. You speak more truth more often than I ever could. You have a shattering honesty about everything.

Because of my own "Mama Tiger" fantasies, every now and then when I look full-face at your lonely struggle, I feel frantic to fix it. That's not my place, and frantic ain't healthy.

How much? Thinking about your situation, I actually Googled support groups in UK, kinds of things, a couple times. (Can't do it of course without a postal code.) The other day I emailed the contact for a UK humanist organization that offers humanist pastoral care...but only in institutional settings. I asked him if it ever is available in the community, as well. I just wanted to PM you some help, to show you that you could find caring visitors who would listen with acceptance and compassion and break a little light channel through your painful isolation.

But I don't really think it's healthy for me to feel frantic to support anyone. I need to be loving, present, and ready to offer what I can, in this 2-D context.

I promise I'll continue to do that. Just wanted to 'fess up to why I nattered on (again) about church! It's just because it gave me an extended family (trustworthy despite ups and downs) and I ....err... urgently, now that I've renounced franticlly .... wanted you to have that too.

I found just as much, and just as supportive, comfort through a totally secular women's support group here years ago. Alas, feminism in that old-school circle-meeting sense has faded or transmogrified lately into just #MeToo and identity politics. And online. Sigh. When will people rediscover how much it matters to sit in reality with other humans? What I'd found so helpful was just that women could provide amazing strength to each other, regardless of background. It wasn't political at all, and it worked.

Hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Twoapenny

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Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #185 on: August 10, 2019, 02:14:12 PM »
Tupp, I want to apologize for mumbling on about church settings again...it's not appropriate. It's not RELIGION I imagine for you (in any way), it's community and comfort. That's it.

And you're already taking all kinds of steps, from forest groups to a dream of a future gathering place...that are your OWN ideas about community and comfort.

I'm just busting myself about my own urges to fix. I honestly am so grateful for your openness and sharing...you are an inspirational person for me. You speak more truth more often than I ever could. You have a shattering honesty about everything.

Because of my own "Mama Tiger" fantasies, every now and then when I look full-face at your lonely struggle, I feel frantic to fix it. That's not my place, and frantic ain't healthy.

How much? Thinking about your situation, I actually Googled support groups in UK, kinds of things, a couple times. (Can't do it of course without a postal code.) The other day I emailed the contact for a UK humanist organization that offers humanist pastoral care...but only in institutional settings. I asked him if it ever is available in the community, as well. I just wanted to PM you some help, to show you that you could find caring visitors who would listen with acceptance and compassion and break a little light channel through your painful isolation.

But I don't really think it's healthy for me to feel frantic to support anyone. I need to be loving, present, and ready to offer what I can, in this 2-D context.

I promise I'll continue to do that. Just wanted to 'fess up to why I nattered on (again) about church! It's just because it gave me an extended family (trustworthy despite ups and downs) and I ....err... urgently, now that I've renounced franticlly .... wanted you to have that too.

I found just as much, and just as supportive, comfort through a totally secular women's support group here years ago. Alas, feminism in that old-school circle-meeting sense has faded or transmogrified lately into just #MeToo and identity politics. And online. Sigh. When will people rediscover how much it matters to sit in reality with other humans? What I'd found so helpful was just that women could provide amazing strength to each other, regardless of background. It wasn't political at all, and it worked.

Hugs
Hops

Hopsie, there's nothing for you to apologise for, it's nice that you care enough to go to all that trouble or even think about it and I really appreciate it (and it's a far cry from my 3D 'friends' who don't even bother to text every now and again :) lol).  I appreciate the thoughts and the sentiment and I do understand where you are coming from - but I feel like I've turned a corner this last few days and something has just shifted.

I do have a lot of support - it just doesn't match in my head what I think I ought to have TO SATISFY OTHER PEOPLE'S STANDARDS :)  I've been reading a lot more recently about autistic adults, who are talking about what would have helped them as kids - and their biggest thing is just having people accept them as they are and not try to change them to fit into something that everyone else considers 'normal'.  It's very interesting to read - heart warming because they're reassuring me that I've done right by son by following his lead rather than forcing him to fit in - and interesting to me because I've always felt pressured to be someone I'm not and, as you know, whether I may be autistic myself has crossed my mind recently.  So there's been a lot swirling about in my head over the last few days and I realised my frustration comes from trying really hard to have this wide circle of 3D friends around me so that I can prove I'm popular/likeable/acceptable or whatever.  And I've not been seeing what I've actually got which is better than that.  I've got you guys on here, a stable of strong, reasoned, emotionally astute, compassionate people who've supported me through goodness only knows how many dark patches and cheered me on through good times as well.  Lovely Dr G, who provides all of this for us to rattle on endlessly in complete confidence.  A couple of amazing 3D, real life friends who are real rocks and I'm very lucky to have them.  A couple of other good friends who I enjoy talking to and catching up with.  Several acquaintances who are nice to pass a bit of time with every now and again.  Various nice people we've met down here since we've moved, several of whom are helping me with my health problems.  The college staff are nice - college hasn't worked out for us but the staff are nice and son enjoys going.  The kids on our street are nice, very sweet with son, very friendly.  The cinema staff are lovely (we're in there a lot!) and there are lots of activities for adults with learning disabilities here so I do think this time next year our situation will have changed.  I have been focusing a lot on how I think everything should be and it's closed my eyes to what I've already got.  And that shifted this week so I just don't feel so cut off and alone now.

I do still find it hard when friends aren't what I thought they were but I think I said previously that, if I'm honest, I probably wouldn't become friends with some of the people I've known down here for years if I met them now.  I've changed a lot, my interests have changed and there are a few people who, if I met them now, I don't think I'd pursue the friendship with.  As you said, Hops, let them go with love and thanks for the good times and catch up every now and again if appropriate.  It's okay, isn't it?

So nothing for you to say sorry for - it's very sweet of you to go to all that trouble and I appreciate it very much xx xx

Twoapenny

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Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #186 on: August 10, 2019, 02:15:46 PM »
HAPPY NOT GETTING OLDER DAY

Lol, thanks, G - it was a nice day!  Fish and chip lunch with some friends in their caravan, some cups of tea whilst watching it rain - we're British!  This is what we do!  Lol.  And then home for some down time on the sofa.  Not getting older day was nice :) Lol xx

Twoapenny

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Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #187 on: August 10, 2019, 02:20:07 PM »
Currently reading HAPPINESS by Thich Nhat Hanh.  My T lent it to me, and I just knew she'd put a book in my hands today.  So useful. 

I ordered the 3 I listed PLUS the book PEACE IS EVERY STEP  by Thich Nhat Hanh.

It's time to practice consistently, and have tools to get me back on track when I struggle.

So many moving pieces, and learning how to put them down, so I can focus on being here, now, is the trick to having control over flipping the ON OFF switch for being present.... being in the zone... etc. 

Call it what I have, it's learning to get myself back in the moment, and re set old pathways so THIS is my default.

20 - 60 days of practice. 

::BIG BREATH::.

I might journal about this. 

I might write about it on the board. 

Will see.

Lighter

I'll add all these to my reading list, Lighter!  You'll be busy reading for a while :)  I had an interesting chat with the acupuncturist about my current struggles.  He practices Taoism so we talked about how that applies to day to day situations.  I like the way he explains things.  He suggested I write some affirmations, which I'm not keen on because I'm not keen on all the law of attraction stuff.  But he suggested just phrasing things in a way that focuses on the qualities about myself that I like so that I put my attention to that more than what other people are or aren't doing - not so much about trying to make certain things happen externally but more about feeling happier in myself and not focusing so much on the lack.  It's a balance - isn't it - we need to focus on lack to change things when necessary but focusing too much makes me fall into a pit.  I think it's going to be okay.  Thank you for birthday wishes :) xx

lighter

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Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #188 on: August 10, 2019, 05:04:58 PM »
I think it's unhelpful when we're negatively impacted by someone or something....
the word, for me, MEDITATION, was quite triggering, and  brought up anger for me, and frustration FOR YEARS.  Like a little social club giggling over secrets they wouldn't share, but felt superior about... just maddening, even though it's not the truth.  It FELT that way.

 A freinamy once spoke about the law of attraction, but she didn't impact me the same way, but I understand.  I  dismissed it, and went on.  It felt like hoo hoo. 

My old Martial Arts Instructor practiced isms.  Taoism or Daoism as he called it... the way.  Not a religion, just a chosen path, and he didn't believe in suffering twice.  Only once, then he stopped going over that thing, and if you ever wondered what X felt like.... BAM, he showed you.  We stopped wondering in front of him, as classmates.

I can't even think how this T took me around it, and avoided that shutdown.  I know she bumped into it later, and just pulled back, and allowed me to HAVE it, unchallenged.. just kept on talking around it, taking little pathways around it, bringing me back to the way I wanted to go... and we both knew that, together.  We understood that resistance, and she dropped the rope every time.  I understood she dropped the rope, and allowed her to find a different path to lead me where I needed and wanted to be.  I really wanted it, is the truth.  I surrendered to that desire for change.

With the law of attraction.... you have frustration and anger.... I think.  You're entitled to it, and you should have it, hold it, give it space to belong, and know it's a part of you that will always be there.

The law of attraction is one way of explaining something that makes sense to some, but not others.
 Fine.  It doesn't work for you.  Ok.

I understand my brain as a computer.  I open a file, and input information.  That information will be used in calculations for possible solutions. 

It's simple for me.  Even if I have unconscious belief systems countering that positive information, I know cultivating the positive or what I want, today, will bring me more of that tomorrow.  I'm experiencing it now, and falling short, but it's the mission. I want to engage neurolasticity, gain control over my biology, and brain pathways, and cultivate non judgmental presence in the moment.

That's the game today

Dropping judgment.  Dropping expectation. 

I don't really need to repeat things negative people in my life have said, or believed ABOUT ME.  I don't want to help them keep those ideas alive inside my brain, and body.  I want to see what's real, and what I truly am, outside those beliefs... so harmful, and difficult to challenge once they take up residence in the subconscious. 

My truth is my truth.  What others think... that's just a story.  Sometimes it FEEEEEEEEELS SO REAL, but it's just a story, and I have permission to put them on the shelf, revisit my touchstones, and practice today what I want more of tomorrow. 

It's difficult to deal with old trauma, and I honestly don't want to, bc I'm HUMAN.  Nobody seeks out that kind of pain.  We all spend our time between avoidance, and seeking behaviors.   I can get lost in that pain, and confused, if I don't have a framework to handle it, or deal with it, IME.  I fall back into old coping strategies and feel lost when I forget.  T appointments center me, even if I arrive feeling super bad, I leave feeling super relieved.... touchstones restored, the way revealed, once again. 

  I have to remember... THE framework for DOING THAT, IME.  If I can cultivate the practice of utilizing that framework, even when my default system is blaring alarm bells loudly.... get up under those alarms, and unhook them, consistently, I can change those pathways.  I can make it possible for my brain to finish up old business, bc THAT's what the alarm bells are signaling, IME.  That I have old business that needs attention.  Understanding that.... finding a framework to DO that.... practicing it consistently... makes it possible to get through the old business, file it, and open up possibility for new things, which is the goal for me. 

When I try to do that, outside the framework, it leads to muddled thinking, confusion and pain.  That's not good.  It IS familiar, however, and a struggle not to feel defeat when I'm up against it. 

I'm getting better at dropping judgment.  Noticing my breathe.  Noticing my thoughts, and remembering how to find my framework.  I have tremendous peace after my T sessions.  The last one was really hard... I dreaded it, then left feeling energized, and relieved... so relieved.  To speak my truth, the shame of it, the sadness, and process it with someone who's not judging, and is teachi9ng me not to judge, but to face it.  Let it in, examine it, and keep moving.  Her revelation, for me, was that under all the emotions, and resistance is desire to feel supported emotionally.  To seek it out, and name it.  Ask for it.   

Feeding negatives into my computer program isn't going to get me more of what I want, IME.  It slows me down, and creates a bog situation, IME.  Time to stop doing that.   

Focusing on the positives... what I want more of.... likely will take me to different places, IME.
 I'm trying to do that in everything.... everything.  Just drop the judgment, and stop feeling hijacked.

Less hijack,  and more autopilot engaging the parasympathetic nervous system... silencing the alarm bells.   Just repetition.   

::nod::

Yup.

Lighter




 




 

Garbanzo

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Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #189 on: August 10, 2019, 09:49:28 PM »
Fish and chips while watching rain and drinking tea does sound nice.

Twoapenny

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Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #190 on: August 11, 2019, 01:11:11 AM »
Fish and chips while watching rain and drinking tea does sound nice.

Thanks, G - it was nice!  And we have plenty of rain at the moment :)  Lol xx xx

Twoapenny

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Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #191 on: August 11, 2019, 01:25:58 AM »
I think it's unhelpful when we're negatively impacted by someone or something....
the word, for me, MEDITATION, was quite triggering, and  brought up anger for me, and frustration FOR YEARS.  Like a little social club giggling over secrets they wouldn't share, but felt superior about... just maddening, even though it's not the truth.  It FELT that way.

 A freinamy once spoke about the law of attraction, but she didn't impact me the same way, but I understand.  I  dismissed it, and went on.  It felt like hoo hoo. 

My old Martial Arts Instructor practiced isms.  Taoism or Daoism as he called it... the way.  Not a religion, just a chosen path, and he didn't believe in suffering twice.  Only once, then he stopped going over that thing, and if you ever wondered what X felt like.... BAM, he showed you.  We stopped wondering in front of him, as classmates.

I can't even think how this T took me around it, and avoided that shutdown.  I know she bumped into it later, and just pulled back, and allowed me to HAVE it, unchallenged.. just kept on talking around it, taking little pathways around it, bringing me back to the way I wanted to go... and we both knew that, together.  We understood that resistance, and she dropped the rope every time.  I understood she dropped the rope, and allowed her to find a different path to lead me where I needed and wanted to be.  I really wanted it, is the truth.  I surrendered to that desire for change.

With the law of attraction.... you have frustration and anger.... I think.  You're entitled to it, and you should have it, hold it, give it space to belong, and know it's a part of you that will always be there.

The law of attraction is one way of explaining something that makes sense to some, but not others.
 Fine.  It doesn't work for you.  Ok.

I understand my brain as a computer.  I open a file, and input information.  That information will be used in calculations for possible solutions. 

It's simple for me.  Even if I have unconscious belief systems countering that positive information, I know cultivating the positive or what I want, today, will bring me more of that tomorrow.  I'm experiencing it now, and falling short, but it's the mission. I want to engage neurolasticity, gain control over my biology, and brain pathways, and cultivate non judgmental presence in the moment.

That's the game today

Dropping judgment.  Dropping expectation. 

I don't really need to repeat things negative people in my life have said, or believed ABOUT ME.  I don't want to help them keep those ideas alive inside my brain, and body.  I want to see what's real, and what I truly am, outside those beliefs... so harmful, and difficult to challenge once they take up residence in the subconscious. 

My truth is my truth.  What others think... that's just a story.  Sometimes it FEEEEEEEEELS SO REAL, but it's just a story, and I have permission to put them on the shelf, revisit my touchstones, and practice today what I want more of tomorrow. 

It's difficult to deal with old trauma, and I honestly don't want to, bc I'm HUMAN.  Nobody seeks out that kind of pain.  We all spend our time between avoidance, and seeking behaviors.   I can get lost in that pain, and confused, if I don't have a framework to handle it, or deal with it, IME.  I fall back into old coping strategies and feel lost when I forget.  T appointments center me, even if I arrive feeling super bad, I leave feeling super relieved.... touchstones restored, the way revealed, once again. 

  I have to remember... THE framework for DOING THAT, IME.  If I can cultivate the practice of utilizing that framework, even when my default system is blaring alarm bells loudly.... get up under those alarms, and unhook them, consistently, I can change those pathways.  I can make it possible for my brain to finish up old business, bc THAT's what the alarm bells are signaling, IME.  That I have old business that needs attention.  Understanding that.... finding a framework to DO that.... practicing it consistently... makes it possible to get through the old business, file it, and open up possibility for new things, which is the goal for me. 

When I try to do that, outside the framework, it leads to muddled thinking, confusion and pain.  That's not good.  It IS familiar, however, and a struggle not to feel defeat when I'm up against it. 

I'm getting better at dropping judgment.  Noticing my breathe.  Noticing my thoughts, and remembering how to find my framework.  I have tremendous peace after my T sessions.  The last one was really hard... I dreaded it, then left feeling energized, and relieved... so relieved.  To speak my truth, the shame of it, the sadness, and process it with someone who's not judging, and is teachi9ng me not to judge, but to face it.  Let it in, examine it, and keep moving.  Her revelation, for me, was that under all the emotions, and resistance is desire to feel supported emotionally.  To seek it out, and name it.  Ask for it.   

Feeding negatives into my computer program isn't going to get me more of what I want, IME.  It slows me down, and creates a bog situation, IME.  Time to stop doing that.   

Focusing on the positives... what I want more of.... likely will take me to different places, IME.
 I'm trying to do that in everything.... everything.  Just drop the judgment, and stop feeling hijacked.

Less hijack,  and more autopilot engaging the parasympathetic nervous system... silencing the alarm bells.   Just repetition.   

::nod::

Yup.

Lighter

Nodding throughout, Lighter.  I think, for me, what I'm trying to do at the minute is find the bits that work for me, real time, real world situations.  I think possibly for me, the phrase 'law of attraction' is just too caught up in victim blaming, and in not 'hearing' people.  Traumatic experiences are just that; they can shatter your soul, your physicality, soak up your finances, take your possessions, your children, rob you of people you love, expose people you love as deceivers or abusers, give you a life that you didn't ask for and don't deserve.  And all of those things are terribly painful and difficult to deal with and, in my opinion, when you're in a pit that deep and dark, doing anything for yourself can be nigh on impossible.  Those are the times when your dark vibration needs to reach out to loving, caring people who will look after you until you are well enough to get out of that pit again.  I just don't believe (based on my own experiences) that you can experience those feelings and not be affected by them.  And I've not yet been able to find anything written that deals with law of attraction/your thoughts create your reality stuff and also deals with rape, child abuse, domestic violence, inequality, war, famine and so on.  So the phrase itself makes me feel uncomfortable.

I am very happy with constructive thinking, though, and with finding a way to deal with your feelings and cut new pathways through your life (and neural pathways as well).  The acupuncturist did suggest some YouTube films on Taoism for me, and watching them I felt that much of this stuff has been written by men, and by men who lived thousands of years ago - and I'm wondering if that's why it doesn't deal with some of the modern issues and issues that affect primarily women.

Anyway, I digress :)  I am focusing on my affirmations (I am a loving and creative individual.  I am building a supportive network for my son.  I am working on myself and I am open to new relationships with supportive, loving people).  They feel realistic to me, and I've noticed that, if my brain wanders into a ruminating, negative pattern (as it does many times during the day), if I read the affirmations the negative stuff just doesn't fit with them and it evaporates.  So I feel that's helping, at the minute.  I'm not keen on the phrase 'raising my vibration' either; that induces fear in me (deep down, it says, "Tup, if you don't vibrate high enough, step-dad will get you again".  Illogical, I know, but that's what it brings up.  So I need to think of a new phrase for that).  But I do like the idea of making healthier choices that will likely do me more good than harm.  So I'm trying really hard, when I think about or want to do something, to ask myself if this fits with my healthier, more loving lifestyle.  And if the answer's no, I'm trying to find something else to do, or a healthier way to do it.  Can only keep trying, I think.

Phew!  The Voiceless forum comes under 'loving options' for me :) x x x x

lighter

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Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #192 on: August 15, 2019, 04:41:55 PM »
I guess we keep plugging away, forming positive habits, and see how cultivating positive things works for us, Tupp. 

I'm feeling really good about finding answers right now, even if I know it takes time plant, and grow new things.

Lighter

Twoapenny

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Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #193 on: August 17, 2019, 01:52:47 AM »
I guess we keep plugging away, forming positive habits, and see how cultivating positive things works for us, Tupp. 

I'm feeling really good about finding answers right now, even if I know it takes time plant, and grow new things.

Lighter

That's it, isn't it?  We keep trying to change and form better habits, trying things, seeing if it works, tweaking it or discarding it if it doesn't.

Quite a lot is coming up for me at the minute; a lot of worries about life and how things are going for us.  The lack of reward for the huge amount of work I put in troubles me hugely.  It isn't a case so much of feeling that I'm not enough, it feels more like a case of genuinely not being enough - and still not being able to get anyone else to take the helm, even for a short time.  That troubles me hugely.

I worry enormously about son, and about myself.  We both have health problems and are almost in similar situations now.  What we can do is restricted by our health and how often we can go out is restricted in the same way.  I don't think that son feels loneliness.  He's very happy as long as he has his stuff around him - computer, books, favourite films, Lego sets.  I am finding the loneliness is eating me alive.  I've genuinely never felt it so acutely nor been so badly affected by it.

I don't feel positive about the future.  State care provision is poor and funding/policies/legislation is changed with alarming regularity, meaning that, even if you get a good package in place, there's no guarantee it will remain in place.  The other thing that troubles me is the thought that, once I'm dead, there will be no-one to even visit son, unless a kind friend or neighbour happens to still be around to do it.  But there's no family, no partner and the couple of friends who would visit are older than me and therefore not too likely to be around for much longer than I will.  That troubles me greatly.

I also don't feel positive about work.  Even with son taken care of, I no longer feel that I could cope with a stressful, busy or noisy job, nor one that involves a lot of physical activity.  That will affect what I can do, obviously, and therefore what I can earn.  Living costs here are astronomical and predicted to keep rising, probably sharply once 'Brexit' happens.  Our current government has dismantled, sold off and run in to the ground all of our state provision - health service, social services, leisure facilities, transport, monetary benefits, police, fire crews, even the roads are in a state.  The population have voted for that - twice.  I find the notion of anyone voting to get rid of the very services that they will have to rely on in times of crisis or hardship baffling - who gives away their own lifeboat?  But people have, and people with disabilities have born the brunt of that.  So many have died, or are living in miserable conditions - alone, without support, very limited incomes.  It troubles me hugely.

And money.  I don't have a pension, or any savings.  My home is owned by a private landlord, who gets paid before anyone else.  It's the smallest and cheapest I could get that still gave us a bedroom each, and it's still very expensive.  It's a constant struggle to find anything beyond paying the bills.  Son does better, because he gets disability benefits so there is a little spare for him, but for me there is very little beyond paying for what is essential.  I honestly thought him going to college would change all of that.  I thought I'd at least be able to work part time, and that he'd start gaining a little independence, maybe making friends and getting a bit more interested in the world.  I thought I would have time to myself, that I'd see my friends regularly, make new ones, even start going out in the evening.  But the opposite has been true.  College has been a huge amount of hard work, for very little reward.  His health has suffered, as has mine, and he's become even more focused on staying in the house and it's harder to get him out than it used to be.  I've not seen a soul; it's become very apparent that my friends have busy lives that I can't keep up with.  I've met nice people and I do appreciate that but I don't even feel like I've got the energy, or the resilience now, to reach out to try with new people and risk being knocked back or used in some way again.  So that feels hard.

I do feel better for just writing all of that down.  Those are my 'truths', as you would say, Hops!  I feel like they are very big, very real problems that I've tried very hard, for many years, to address, but I'm still not making any headway.  So - my next phase to investigate is - Intentional Communities.

I have looked in to this before.  I still prefer to call them communes - I think it sounds cosier - but they aren't called that any more, apparently.  The stumbling block I've come up against when I've looked in to them previously was the workload.  Many will allow you to work in leiu of rent, but as I'd have had to work enough to cover rent for myself and son, whilst looking after him and home educating him, it was just too much work and each option I looked in to seemed to put me in the same situation.  My other concern with it was having to look at places in which there was alternative (cheap) accommodation available, in case things didn't work out and we needed to move out.  That was hard to find as well, keeping in mind that I also wanted somewhere that had a range of provisions available for son.  So each avenue I went down seemed too difficult to follow through.

Things have changed a little now.  I'd still have to do son's share of the work for him, but some 'back of an envelope' calculations seem to suggest that will be less work than the hours I'd have to do to earn enough to pay his share of the rent on our current place.  We're both looking into ways of making money working from home so I think it might be possible to cover our living expenses by working within the community and then make a bit of money for ourselves on top.

I like the idea of having other people around - not to be in each other's pockets and talk endlessly (and I'm sure there will be times when I wish I was living on my own again) - but it would be nice not to have to leave the house any time I want face to face contact with another human being.  I would feel one less worry about son if I know there are other people about in case some emergency occurs with me.  He can still have a care package that involves carers taking him out or sitting in with him so that I could go out but it would mean that it wouldn't be our only source of support and company (which scares me as I feel that a cut to that provision or the carer leaving, for example, means everything falls back on my shoulders.  At least if that happened I'd be largely based from home anyway, so it wouldn't mean me not being able to go to work, for example).

It's just an idea at the moment.  It will mean a lot of work reading up on places, talking to people, visiting places and no doubt knocking many off the list.  We're still in a situation where I'd want to be somewhere with decent provision for son, should it not work out, and cheapish accommodation available for the same reason.  There's a very real possibility that I'd be just as miserable doing that (once the initial novelty had worn off) as I am living like this, and that scares me a lot.  But - the other possibility is that we get to live somewhere much nicer than our current home without money changing hands, we could both be home based without being so alone all of the time and there would be a bit of back up in an emergency (which we don't currently have).  So I think it's an idea worth looking in to.

What do you guys think? xx

lighter

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Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #194 on: August 17, 2019, 05:12:37 AM »
I guess we keep plugging away, forming positive habits, and see how cultivating positive things works for us, Tupp. 

I'm feeling really good about finding answers right now, even if I know it takes time plant, and grow new things.

Lighter

That's it, isn't it?  We keep trying to change and form better habits, trying things, seeing if it works, tweaking it or discarding it if it doesn't.

Quite a lot is coming up for me at the minute; a lot of worries about life and how things are going for us.  The lack of reward for the huge amount of work I put in troubles me hugely.  It isn't a case so much of feeling that I'm not enough, it feels more like a case of genuinely not being enough - and still not being able to get anyone else to take the helm, even for a short time.  That troubles me hugely.

I worry enormously about son, and about myself.  We both have health problems and are almost in similar situations now.  What we can do is restricted by our health and how often we can go out is restricted in the same way.  I don't think that son feels loneliness.  He's very happy as long as he has his stuff around him - computer, books, favourite films, Lego sets.  I am finding the loneliness is eating me alive.  I've genuinely never felt it so acutely nor been so badly affected by it.

I don't feel positive about the future.  State care provision is poor and funding/policies/legislation is changed with alarming regularity, meaning that, even if you get a good package in place, there's no guarantee it will remain in place.  The other thing that troubles me is the thought that, once I'm dead, there will be no-one to even visit son, unless a kind friend or neighbour happens to still be around to do it.  But there's no family, no partner and the couple of friends who would visit are older than me and therefore not too likely to be around for much longer than I will.  That troubles me greatly.

I also don't feel positive about work.  Even with son taken care of, I no longer feel that I could cope with a stressful, busy or noisy job, nor one that involves a lot of physical activity.  That will affect what I can do, obviously, and therefore what I can earn.  Living costs here are astronomical and predicted to keep rising, probably sharply once 'Brexit' happens.  Our current government has dismantled, sold off and run in to the ground all of our state provision - health service, social services, leisure facilities, transport, monetary benefits, police, fire crews, even the roads are in a state.  The population have voted for that - twice.  I find the notion of anyone voting to get rid of the very services that they will have to rely on in times of crisis or hardship baffling - who gives away their own lifeboat?  But people have, and people with disabilities have born the brunt of that.  So many have died, or are living in miserable conditions - alone, without support, very limited incomes.  It troubles me hugely.

And money.  I don't have a pension, or any savings.  My home is owned by a private landlord, who gets paid before anyone else.  It's the smallest and cheapest I could get that still gave us a bedroom each, and it's still very expensive.  It's a constant struggle to find anything beyond paying the bills.  Son does better, because he gets disability benefits so there is a little spare for him, but for me there is very little beyond paying for what is essential.  I honestly thought him going to college would change all of that.  I thought I'd at least be able to work part time, and that he'd start gaining a little independence, maybe making friends and getting a bit more interested in the world.  I thought I would have time to myself, that I'd see my friends regularly, make new ones, even start going out in the evening.  But the opposite has been true.  College has been a huge amount of hard work, for very little reward.  His health has suffered, as has mine, and he's become even more focused on staying in the house and it's harder to get him out than it used to be.  I've not seen a soul; it's become very apparent that my friends have busy lives that I can't keep up with.  I've met nice people and I do appreciate that but I don't even feel like I've got the energy, or the resilience now, to reach out to try with new people and risk being knocked back or used in some way again.  So that feels hard.

OK.  I'm noticing your fear, and frustration in your post, and it seems your in fight or flight mode, going round and round, alarms blaring, and in charge.  My T would talk me down, so the alarms quieted.... no judgement.... just breathing... she'd touch her nose, and I'd touch mine... bringing attention to breathing in.... "I have arrived"... breathing out.... "I feel at home."

If that doesn't work, we tap on the problem.  She has me say out loud my thoughts, and she writes them down, then walks me through the problems.... "This problem I have with (insert problem) and I tap the different points, repeating the words, twice.  Then move on to anothe statement, and tap through again, twice.  I move into a positive space about how I'd like things to change, and BE.
 I always feel better, sometimes complete relief lands on me like a warm soft blanket.  It's hit or miss,  but it's always moving in the right direction, and often there's joy in practice.  I get a lot out of Youtube videos as I work in the yard, do housework, etc.   I try to read, and practice sitting and walking meditation regularly, but that's a work in progress.

When I hear your fear around getting hurt again.... it reminds me of Pia Mellody's Youtube video on lack of boundaries..... sometimes we have walls up,  and those walls can be anger or fear.   Typically it's injustice done to us that diminishes our self worth.  The natural frustration turns into anger,  trying to get our self worth back (paraphrasing of course) but that never works. 

We have to learn how to regulate our emotions through breathing, sitting and walking meditations, paying attention to the fear,  the anger, the sadness, the loss of what we had or would could have been....with curiosity, and compassion.... no judging.... and that's addressing our trauma.  The beginning of addressing our trauma, and we deserve to wiggle out from under it, Tupp.  We deserve to calm those alarm bells, and engage our frontal lobes, and embrace NOW, sluff off the worries of tomorrow, and the bile of yesterday. 

Even if we can't change our truth, we can change how we deal with it, and feel about it.  We can cultivate peace, and calm, and lose nothing..... being anxious,  and frustrated and angry, and fearful doesn't get us more of what we want.  It diminishes our capacity to experience joy, and fellowship, and intimacy.  Those darned walls of fear and anger need to be dismantled, replaced with flexible boundaries, exterior and interior.  They'll keep us safe, and we can venture into community again, without fear.

The trauma traps us, is insidious, without our realizing it, we're underwater, and didn't see it coming.  There's a way back to the surface, Tupp.  The injustice might not change,  is unlikely to change, but how we feel about it, and deal with it can change. What does hypervigilance get us?
 Isolated, frustrated more deeply, and ANGRY.  Angrier and angier, and holding it in just makes it grow. instead, we can go inside, find the pain in our body, name it, sit with that pain, and give it what it's asking for.... attention

Honestly, it feels like adding space to my interior... pushing out the walls, and inviting air, and spaciousness inside.... pushing the pressure off my interior, and relieving the physical manifestations of the emotional struggle.  But that's not often...  it's just enough to help me KNOW I don't have to live this life haunted, and in fight or flight mode.  I can have more choices, and if one of those choices is joy..... I'll take that,  please.   

I write this out, bc it helps me, and bc I hope a thing or two clicks for you.  I had to hear it a certain way for it to click for me, and it's sort of like praying for me.  Like a wavelength, a frequency I'm not used to being on, but can find,  if I try, and experience something that feels like transcendence.
 That's hopeful,  IME.

You don't know what will happen in the future.  You can't know, bc no one knows, and sometimes for humans that's worse.  It's just too much energy spent upset over things that might not happen at all.  Energy we could spend problem solving or enjoying what we have NOW.   Ok, I'll leave that there. 


I do feel better for just writing all of that down.  Those are my 'truths', as you would say, Hops!  I feel like they are very big, very real problems that I've tried very hard, for many years, to address, but I'm still not making any headway.  So - my next phase to investigate is - Intentional Communities.

I have looked in to this before.  I still prefer to call them communes - I think it sounds cosier - but they aren't called that any more, apparently.  The stumbling block I've come up against when I've looked in to them previously was the workload.  Many will allow you to work in leiu of rent, but as I'd have had to work enough to cover rent for myself and son, whilst looking after him and home educating him, it was just too much work and each option I looked in to seemed to put me in the same situation.  My other concern with it was having to look at places in which there was alternative (cheap) accommodation available, in case things didn't work out and we needed to move out.  That was hard to find as well, keeping in mind that I also wanted somewhere that had a range of provisions available for son.  So each avenue I went down seemed too difficult to follow through.
I'm intrigued, Tupp.  You're very resourceful, and competent.  Perhaps the work load wouldn't have to be something taxing and loud, and difficult.  Perhaps it could be something you're good at, and don't hate to do?   

Things have changed a little now.  I'd still have to do son's share of the work for him, but some 'back of an envelope' calculations seem to suggest that will be less work than the hours I'd have to do to earn enough to pay his share of the rent on our current place.  We're both looking into ways of making money working from home so I think it might be possible to cover our living expenses by working within the community and then make a bit of money for ourselves on top.Sounds encouraging.

I like the idea of having other people around - not to be in each other's pockets and talk endlessly (and I'm sure there will be times when I wish I was living on my own again) - but it would be nice not to have to leave the house any time I want face to face contact with another human being.  I would feel one less worry about son if I know there are other people about in case some emergency occurs with me. I'm a little alarmed at an unexpected yearning to live among nuns..  ::sigh::  Picturing you and your son in a community, like the midwives and nuns in the BBC series CALL THE MIDWIVES.... brings me joy. He can still have a care package that involves carers taking him out or sitting in with him so that I could go out but it would mean that it wouldn't be our only source of support and company (which scares me as I feel that a cut to that provision or the carer leaving, for example, means everything falls back on my shoulders.  At least if that happened I'd be largely based from home anyway, so it wouldn't mean me not being able to go to work, for example).This portion of your post seems pretty grounded, and centered,
 Tupp. 


It's just an idea at the moment.  It will mean a lot of work reading up on places, talking to people, visiting places and no doubt knocking many off the list.  We're still in a situation where I'd want to be somewhere with decent provision for son, should it not work out, and cheapish accommodation available for the same reason. You're always thinking ahead, Tupp.  You're an amazing person.  I hope you can step into your self worth, and own how special you truly are. There's a very real possibility that I'd be just as miserable doing that (once the initial novelty had worn off) as I am living like this, and that scares me a lot.  But - the other possibility is that we get to live somewhere much nicer than our current home without money changing hands, we could both be home based without being so alone all of the time and there would be a bit of back up in an emergency (which we don't currently have).  So I think it's an idea worth looking in to.  That;s all you're doing.  Expanding choice, and examining those choices.  That's a good thing, Tupp.  90% research, and 10% execution: )  Light

What do you guys think? xx