Author Topic: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves  (Read 2410 times)

Twoapenny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3149
Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #240 on: September 12, 2019, 08:53:34 AM »
Quote
perhaps I ought to just be honest and say I'd like to meet up but I'm not feeling great so will apologise if I'm snappy or impatient.

That sounds PERFECT, Tupp! Honest, vulnerable, human. Not even complicated.
I always appreciate it so much when someone's simply open about how they're doing. It helps me remember I am also always allowed to be real. I don't have to orchestrate someone else's response to me -- I can just be real.

It can be just as simple as your good example. You let the other person make their own choice, and just take responsibility for yours.

I really love your example because it invites the possibility of just being real for you both, acknowledges that both of you are human (you because of how you're feeling, and also her, because you're respecting it'll be her choice depending on how she is feeling herself). I get it. I feel so appreciated when someone trusts me with their simple truth instead of an act.

It's not magic, and doesn't change people necessarily. But it makes relationships so much simpler. If just being real is something that a particular person can't or doesn't respond to well, that's helpful information. But if, even in small ways, they do respond well (or with realness of their own, even briefly)...that's a good sign.

Bravo, you!

Hugs
Hops

Thanks, Hops.  I think part of me still feels like I need permission to speak about myself?  It's quite weird, but when I was talking to the friend I saw earlier in the week, she was talking about another friend who'd been 'triggered' by something someone had said something about her ex and how it had taken her a week to get over it - and she understood that.  And it was a revelation to me, because the main reason I've not felt comfortable seeing her is because she tells me all about the abusive man dramas she's surrounded by and that triggers me - and takes me a week to get over it.  And I don't say anything, I just sit home on my own feeling lousy and ruminating on it all.  So I've got to start being clearer with people, even if I do keep repeating myself and I feel like a broken record.

I've realised as well that being around people really has potential to make me exhausted and I'm going to have to find a way to manage that.  College has been exhausting, even with the reduced timetable, and son is already struggling.  I think realistically we really need to be in a situation where he's mostly at home and we have just one or two people involved in helping him out, so that we can all be doing the same thing.  College is just to chaotic for either of us to manage.

The group yesterday was great and I'm helping one of the mums with her social services assessment.  I'm really enjoying going and I'm enjoying helping her out.  But the group was very busy, everyone was talking at the same time and there were two 'speakers' in doing different things and again, all talking at the same time.  Alongside that another mum was talking about all the problems she's having with her son and one of the dads has just had his son taken into care, so he wanted to talk as well.  So I'm wondering if what I need to do is perhaps look into doing voluntary work with an organisation, rather than through an informal group like that.  I love helping out parents who're in the same situations I've been in in the past.  The mum I've been helping is a single parent, her son has complex needs and she's just muddled through on her own, like me.  She was so appreciative of the help and I can remember going home from situations where someone helped me with a form or explained something to me and the feeling of relief was always so immense that I really want to do more of that, to help other people.  But I think perhaps it needs to be through a formal organisation so that it's a booked appointment and one person at a time, rather than half the county all at once, which was too much.  So that's where things are at the minute.  I think I need to find a way to balance out what I want to do without getting to overwhelmed or too over involved in too many other things at once.

Hopalong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11578
Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #241 on: September 13, 2019, 09:10:59 AM »
I can see why, (((Tupp))).

I think for anyone with even a toe on the spectrum or who is naturally introverted or has something like ADD, an event like that could feel overstimulating and exhausting. Is there any chance you could explain that to the organizers very simply, and ask if a booth or curtained space might be set up -- or simply explain that you'd like a quiet corner where you can help just one person at a time?

It wouldn't be a complicated arrangement, or shouldn't have to be....and maybe it'd be nice to retain your connection with nice folks you've met instead of having to give up on the group?

Just a thought, may or may not make sense for you.

Big hugs
Hops
« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 12:02:21 PM by Hopalong »
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Twoapenny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3149
Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #242 on: September 13, 2019, 01:38:43 PM »
I can see why, (((Tupp))).

I think for anyone with even a toe on the spectrum or who is naturally introverted or has something like ADD, an event like that could feel overstimulating and exhausting. Is there any chance you could explain that to the organizers very simply, and ask if a booth or curtained space might be set up -- or simply explain that you'd like a quiet corner where you can help just one person at a time?

It wouldn't be a complicated arrangement, or shouldn't have to be....and maybe it'd be nice to retain your connection with nice folks you've met instead of having to give up on the group?

Just a thought, may or may not make sense for you.

Big hugs
Hops

That's a good idea, Hops.  I think, as the lady who set the group up hasn't done this before, it's all still sort of unfolding as we go along.  Privacy is an issue as well; obviously people need to talk but some things need to be discussed in private and there isn't really a private space there.  I think there were just too many different things happening that day and it was a bit much.  I will talk to her about it; the idea is to provide informal support but I think even within that there needs to be some sort of system in place so that there aren't too many things going on at the same time.

What I have really noticed this week is how much external situations stress me out, and much more than would ordinarily be expected.  So I think I need to work about being really rigorous at setting boundaries, saying no and focusing on healthy habits.  I think I should go and see the GP again and discuss whether I ought to be assessed for autism myself and possibly PTSD.  There are definitely symptoms of both but I would guess that one might be the cause of everything I'm experiencing.  I don't feel that a diagnosis does much to help (it hasn't in my son's situation) but I wonder if it might mean I stop analysing what's going on with me quite so much if I know it definitely is or isn't something in particular.  I'll think about it some more.  Things generally don't feel too bad at the moment though, which is good.

Hopalong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11578
Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #243 on: September 13, 2019, 05:15:21 PM »
That's a great idea, Tupp.
Knowledge is power. And sometimes having an actual explanation for something unique about your system or how you function is really helpful.

When I was diagnosed with ADD, huge weights of shame just poured off me. I hadn't realized how much self-criticism and pain had come from a simple neurological difference--why I struggled with some things other people didn't appear to. I was in deep frustration for years, trying to turn myself into something I wasn't, rather than learning how to adapt to and accomodate my own particular brain.

It's a very good brain and I'm lucky to have it. But it ain't quite like everybody else's. That's okay with me now, and I understand myself so much better and with much less shame.

Small idea: If that group meets in one big large space, a simple way to manage this would be to ask for one table and two chairs. Set the table up a good distance from a wall and set the chairs at a comfortable "privacy distance" behind it and off center, facing each other, not the table. Put a BIG NOTE on the table, folded to stand up:
Please wait until a chair is free--happy to help you next! [smiley face]

Big hugs
Hops
« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 06:08:12 PM by Hopalong »
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6566
Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #244 on: September 13, 2019, 08:51:32 PM »
Echoing Hops here.  Maybe set up a waiting area some distance away from your private area, Tupp.

Hear hear to asking for what you want and need, Tupp.  Learning to casually say NO, sans feeling bad about it....some day soon.

::nodding::

Soon.

Twoapenny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3149
Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #245 on: September 15, 2019, 06:42:35 AM »
Thank you both.  I've been thinking a lot more about my codependence issues over the weekend and I realised I really do need to make more of an effort to do more for myself and son before I start worrying about other people, for whatever reason.  I really must sort out the rest of this paperwork and get some sort of money spinning activity set up for the two of us.  So I need to be careful to make sure I look after us before I look after anyone else now x

Hopalong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11578
Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #246 on: September 15, 2019, 09:33:33 AM »
Self-care is Job ONE, for sure, Tupp!

Is it possible to "help" folks at these meetings but build in self-care boundaries at the same time? Like -- "I can tell you about this or that, or suggest going in that direction as it's been helpful to me, or whatever .... I won't be able to do X or Y for you, but I can tell you how I made progress on Z....." Does that sound realistic? I hope so but only you can assess it, or try it to find out.

Just don't want you to feel you have to choose between participating in community life or making friends versus living your own responsible life. Just really want you to know you deserve both, and with simple boundaries, getting more comfortable saying simple Yeses and Nos, you can have them.

You're a hero, Tupp. Heroes need both too.

Big hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Twoapenny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3149
Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #247 on: September 15, 2019, 11:24:57 AM »
Self-care is Job ONE, for sure, Tupp!

Is it possible to "help" folks at these meetings but build in self-care boundaries at the same time? Like -- "I can tell you about this or that, or suggest going in that direction as it's been helpful to me, or whatever .... I won't be able to do X or Y for you, but I can tell you how I made progress on Z....." Does that sound realistic? I hope so but only you can assess it, or try it to find out.

Just don't want you to feel you have to choose between participating in community life or making friends versus living your own responsible life. Just really want you to know you deserve both, and with simple boundaries, getting more comfortable saying simple Yeses and Nos, you can have them.

You're a hero, Tupp. Heroes need both too.

Big hugs
Hops

Thanks, Hops :)  I think I can do both.  I think I need to practise thinking before I act or speak.  I have a tendency to immediately soothe, whether it's myself or someone else, rather than tolerating discomfort for a while so that a longer term response is more appropriate, if that makes sense?  I also don't want to fall into the routine of endlessly comforting people who don't help themselves.  As an example, two people I spoke with last week were in completely different situations.  One is working hard to change things, keep all the balls in the air, try to do her best for her child whilst keeping a bit of a life for herself as well.  Another is in a similarly tough situation and has been for years but has done very little to change the situation, preferring to wait for outside agencies to do everything for them and then being upset with the action the outside agencies have finally taken (which, in my opinion could have been avoided had the parent been more proactive and tried more approaches themself).  I prefer to help the first parent who just needs a bit of a hand with the form filling and knowing the language to use when dealing with the system rather than listening to the second one, who is justifiably upset but still doing very little to change the situations.  So I think I just need to be careful where I put my energy - energy into helping people help themselves (including me), yes, energy into absorbing other people's problems, no.  I find that too tiring and that impacts on what I can do for myself then so I need to find the line and stick to it.  So I think it's doable, I think what I find hard is knowing that saying no or saying what you think does sometimes mean upsetting people and that's the bit I struggle with so I need to find a way to make that less of a problem for myself, and probably to organise my time better so that I can be more efficient with myself and make sure I build in my own time and avoid getting too tired.  And I think I need to crack on with this mountain of paperwork again, I keep putting it off but it needs to be done and got out of the way, finally, so we can get on with other, more enjoyable things that we both want to do.

lighter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6566
Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #248 on: September 15, 2019, 11:51:34 AM »
Hi Tupp:

We're better able to care for, and help others when we're taking care of ourselves. 

We're more resilient when we're rested and have our needs met.

We're more responsive and able to apply creativity to our efforts.

Today I learned a little calming exercise involving the parasympathetic nervous system.  We place our hands over our eyes, and press between our eyes, then press down around our ears, behind our ears, then back into the hollow where our spine meets skull..... massaging a bit.  Then down the neck and shoulders... massaging shoulders one at a time if necessary. Then place our hands over our throats, protectively, very lightly.  Then our hearts.  Then our solar plexus.  Then hands in lap.

We do all this while breathing deeply in through the nose, and out through the mouth. 

It's helps calm us down before making decisions.  We can go through a short version in public before answering more autentically. 

It gives us a chance to center and calm our biology, while allowing our intuition to kick in, and guide us.

I'm all about listening to gut instincts right now. 

BTW, did you know the parasympathetic nervous system (PSNV) runs from our forehead, down our faces, into our heart, lungs, and digestive tracts?  THAT's a huge bundle of nerves!  It's also running along our meridian system, which runs from the top of the head down the front, and around to the lower back, or the root chakra. 

WOmen have 9 times more tolerance for pain than men, and codependents have more than other people.

::nodding::.

Lighter


 


Hopalong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11578
Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #249 on: September 15, 2019, 07:44:38 PM »
I love that calming exercise, Lighter.
Just READING it felt good.

Thanks!

Hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Twoapenny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3149
Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #250 on: September 16, 2019, 06:06:13 AM »
Thank you, Lighter, I will give that a go, it does sound good!

I am trying to observe and change my responses.  Received a text from lady who runs the group - wants to know when I'm home as she needs to have a chat.  I instantly panic - which was interesting, I hadn't really noticed I do it.  But the thoughts jumbled through "I'm tired, I've got loads to do today, I can't cope if it's a drama, have I done something wrong, have I upset someone" - it all flashed through my head in a matter of seconds.  So - I took a deep breath and quieted my mind.  I don't know what she wants to talk about so no point giving it any thought at all.  I texted back and said I'd be home tonight or tomorrow (boundary setting).  Which of course is fine with her because she's not a fruit loop and doesn't expect people to drop everything the moment she wants to talk to them.  So it's all fine, no need for a panic, but it was interesting to me that my brain went straight to disaster scenario.  Not sure if that's because I'm very tired (didn't sleep well) or if that would have happened if I were well rested, will have to keep an eye on it.  But anyway, I feel a little bit of progress made, largely because I replied saying I was busy and suggesting an alternative, rather than ignoring the text and then worrying about ignoring it.  Feels dealt with.

Twoapenny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3149
Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #251 on: September 16, 2019, 06:43:28 AM »
Ooh ladies, I'm on a roll!  Received another text, from a friend, who often texts to moan about her daughter's school.  There are a lot of problems and she's a very dear friend but I find that I give advice, quote sections of Education Law, tell her groups to contact to help her sort problem out - and she never does.  So I started to text back the relevant info after looking it up online for her and then thought, no, she is perfectly capable of doing this herself if she wants to, it took me two minutes to find it online, so I deleted what I had written and just wrote back that I hoped it got sorted soon and to have a lovely day.  We can be friends without me running round pulling up info for her, right?  Had a very bad night's sleep last night so I am back off to bed for a couple of hours before picking son up from college later :)  night night :) xx

Hopalong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11578
Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #252 on: September 16, 2019, 11:21:33 AM »
Wow, Tupp, I am IMPRESSED.
REALLY impressed!

You observed the inner over-alarm, engaged the boundary idea,
communicated your needs calmly, and .... voila! I'm awed.

And the friend texting about her daughter's education issues.
I GET THIS! I have a dear friend also who texts me simple questions
that are easily answered on Google, and I tend to instantly look it up.
That happens a lot. I usually think 'well, I google everything anyway'
so don't really mind...but sometimes I think, what is she thinking when
she asks it? Probably: enjoyable dialogue. Or just: connect by asking a
question, as she's too tired for other talk. I think sometimes it's that.

One thing I do sometimes as a compromise is enter a to-me-obvious
search term, see if some decent-looking results pop up, and then forward
her the link to the entire search, just in case she's having difficulty figuring
out how to ask the query. With education law, I don't know if there's a
portal link where she could begin her own search, but it's a possibility....

In my example, she doesn't do it often, so it's not a serious annoyance.
But it's a great example of how to work within oneself to check on the
leap-to-fix impulse, which I know I have in spades. See above. Busted!

Hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6566
Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #253 on: September 16, 2019, 12:31:33 PM »
Thank you, Lighter, I will give that a go, it does sound good!

I am trying to observe and change my responses.  Received a text from lady who runs the group - wants to know when I'm home as she needs to have a chat.  I instantly panic - which was interesting, I hadn't really noticed I do it.  But the thoughts jumbled through "I'm tired, I've got loads to do today, I can't cope if it's a drama, have I done something wrong, have I upset someone" - it all flashed through my head in a matter of seconds.  So - I took a deep breath and quieted my mind.  I don't know what she wants to talk about so no point giving it any thought at all.  I texted back and said I'd be home tonight or tomorrow (boundary setting).  Which of course is fine with her because she's not a fruit loop and doesn't expect people to drop everything the moment she wants to talk to them.  So it's all fine, no need for a panic, but it was interesting to me that my brain went straight to disaster scenario.  Not sure if that's because I'm very tired (didn't sleep well) or if that would have happened if I were well rested, will have to keep an eye on it.  But anyway, I feel a little bit of progress made, largely because I replied saying I was busy and suggesting an alternative, rather than ignoring the text and then worrying about ignoring it.  Feels dealt with.

Simply making a statement.... I'll be home tonight or tomorrow.... is better than making excuses, avoiding, or feeling guilty over something we haven't done, and aren't responsible for.

I think many of us feel responsible, and guilty all the time.  It's a low thrumming through our lives we've gotten used to, and don't notice,  till we stop, and pay attention, like you did here. 

I sent you a few things in your PM box that seem applicable. 

Honestly, just noticing the feelings are creating chemical dumps.  Becoming aware of them is pretty scary.... sometimes I feel so snowed and mired very deeply, I'm afraid i won't be able to dig myself all the way out,  Now, that's fear based thinking, and I want to quiet that too.

Lordy, I'll get there: )

Lighter

lighter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6566
Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #254 on: September 16, 2019, 12:34:06 PM »
I love that calming exercise, Lighter.
Just READING it felt good.

Thanks!

Hugs
Hops

You're welcome, Hops.  I went through it today.  I want to come up with a quick version I can do in public.  I remember a nice fellow I used to date used to do something like that when he was really under pressure.  It sort of ended in a quick snap of his hand, like he was shaking something off his hand.   It's funny how the body does things to calm itself without understanding why it's doing it.

Lighter