When it's SHAME

[Hopalong]

Nobody envies my clothes, but I've been given quite a few nice things from friends. I enjoy those surprises, even when they don't suit! (We give each other stuff with the caveat--pass it on if it's not for you.)

I favor natural fabrics, relaxed drape, neutral OR jewel tones. Pastels make me disappear (white hair, pale skin, etc.). I still fit into most Mediums but often pick Large for comfort.

Have fun swapping! I bet Hol has a great feel for texture and color.

hugs
Hops

[Hopalong]

I just re-read this whole thread and was again, so blown away by the kindness and generosity every one of you flooded it (me) with.

THANK YOU, AMAZONS.

I felt as though you are a group of 3-D friends who just appeared one day when I was having a tough time and just made the support and UNDERSTANDING so very real. I felt valued and cared about and loved and can't tell you adequately how great you all are. I am mentally passing out excellent microbrews or vigonier.

Holy moly. I feel so lucky that in a time like this, I have y'all to talk to every single day, right here. I don't know how anybody gets through a pandemic without their own Board.

I apologize for not responding to each specific post in adequate detail; I'd prefer to. I think the topic was so vulnerable that I just felt drained afterward and wanted to let it sit. But I want you to know that I've read and re-read everything you said. Here are a few early reactions, too briefly:

Tupp, you talking about me needing a bit of help with home organization being like any other health care need was so helpful. It's true, if I needed some other kind of support due to a medical issue, I wouldn't shame myself for that. But for some reason I've beaten myself up for years over ADD traits I really can't help. Huh. And thank you for the empathy, which comes through as so genuine and heartfelt. So I can dish it out and need to learn to take it in, too. Thank you. And just for your tremendous, reflexive kindness. If I lived in your neighborhood I'd be on your stoop just like the little kids, the cats who know a safe zone when they feel one.

Amber, I didn't get it at first, when you wrote about returning shame where it belongs, and that maybe in some way I have been absorbing shame that belongs elsewhere. I wondered who, how, etc.

Then it hit me this morning as I tackle morning reading....I think on some deep level I've been feeling ashamed of America. I read so much news, I've always identified with the capital because it's within a day's drive and I spent a lot of time there at different points, full of awe when I was young (I recall the wonder I felt visiting my Dad at the Pentagon during his post-war assignments there in summers--those huge long halls and people so grave and purposeful) and all the beautiful institutions, and the Lincoln Memorial, the Smithsonian, museums...and in some way, watching the government now fail and fail and fail (especially fail its character tests) while so many suffer -- at times it feels very personal. Like, how can we go from a place that held such shining ideals, to THIS? I know what has happened and I know we'll eventually rebuild and/or reform, but a lot of lingering naivete is gone. Bitterness will get us nowhere, and I worry how many are stuck believing nothing can ever change. (I actually think it's more like the Chinese theory of chaos meaning opportunity, so I DO have hope. But jeez, how far can we push it.)

I really do think I've been feeling ashamed for America. And that's not my job! I've been a very responsible citizen. Even if not an activist (except through writing), I have always taken civic duties and community quite seriously. I need to do more, locally, and think once I restart that, even if it's just participating in a from-home voting phone bank to contribute to the election, that will recede. Helping reduces helplessness.

What you wrote about where does the shame belong is what got me started on that train of thought. Thank you. (And personally, there's no time like age 70 to check back on early childhood!...I recall telling my T last week that I think the dissociative anxiety I felt those few times that M really dressed me down verbally...came from early absorption of the religion on my poor mother's side. It wasn't explained or lectured so much as felt, emotionally, that the judgment (hellfire and brimstone, my tortured preacher grandfather's message) or something else terrible and deserved would be laid on anyone who wasn't perfectly good (and in her distorted personality, her anxiety was constant like an electrical hum). So when M would do his short but cold little "lecture" on what was wrong with my character, I think it took me back unconsciously to that place, where I felt paralyzed by a subtle horror of how a text, a speech, a flood of condemning language...could really actually condemn someone! I didn't realize how any of that religious sludge was still lingering in my psyche. I certainly no longer believe that way.

Hmmm. I might make productive use of pandemic time examining the shreds of my spirituality, even. I think there's some very-undefined good stuff that remains that I might be able to REclaim for myself, by making it my own and trusting it. Thank you for asking that penetrating question.

Huh. That might even fit in with why I feel shame at times over disorder at home. My Nmom was a fine housekeeper. Maybe I didn't realize I'm still comparing myself to her in any way. But when I think about HER anxiety, I have compassion. Time to give myself some.

Lighter, that's the core of your reminder too -- compassion for self. Thank you very much for reminding me. It's weird the way that's my biggest repeated message for everyone else in my life. And I somehow let it fall away for myself, even though it's the heart of my positive beliefs, and the heart of hope, and the heart of relationships and caring and community.

The way you work it through aloud (a-written) is really vivid and I can see how it works. AND how hard you work AT it. That's inspirational, even if the details vary in how one gets there. Thanks for modeling what you do for you. I can "see" you smirking at shame and unkind self-judgement and perfectionism, busting it for what it is. I know that perfectionism and fear underlie a lot of anxiety and shame, and it's good to remember that. Challenge the inner MAHTHA Stewart to shuddup and siddown. She's like Whack-a-Mole, isn't she?

CB, I don't compare myself directly in a shaming way to any individual, so no my dear, your life and the images of order and beauty I always find when I think about you...are NOT a source of shaming comparison, I promise. I just find you wise and inspirational, always, and one of the forms that takes is me fantasizing a lot of creativity and beauty (if not perfect order, okay!) in your home. I'm not there so I'm sure I'm making it up....but hey, not bad to be imagined that way, is it?

I talked with you sooooo much about my little house when I first got it, and you "saw" it with me so closely and happily. Also, you're a friend who really DOES see beauty (no coincidence you have done flower arranging professionally) and I like thinking about that when I think about you!

I'll bet you understand the toxic religion leftovers especially well. I'm inspired by how profoundly you have processed and untangled that...you were so much deeper into that life and it had such a massive impact on you. And yet I really do believe you that you stopped carrying the brainwashed shame. It's inspiring to me, and thank you for sharing your journey. You can't imagine how helpful that is.

((((G)))) You remind me of Winston Churchill. My favorite Churchill anecdote that always made me laugh, was the way he would answer a ringing telephone during the Blitz when he was down in the bunker. He would pick up the receiver and growl into it: "Come STRAIGHT to the point."

And you so often do that and I loved this:
Maybe some people have more energy and others less for reasons beyond our understanding.

I do like moving the pebbles around with my nose until I notice there's a path involved. But sometimes I just need to roll over onto the grass and stare up at clouds and let it all go, not understand every damn thing. Thank you!

hugs all,
Hops (Feeling much much better if not quite shameless. The shameless one is Pooch, who sleeps most of the day and never apologizes.)
 

[sKePTiKal]

[Hopalong]

I lost my VESMB emoticons so I see a little square blue thing from Amber, and thassit.

[Twoapenny]

Hops, when it comes to health, I think people tend to divide issues (quite unconsciously) into those things you take pills or have surgery for - which we all seem to accept as being things we can't control simply through will or effort - and those things that are more about adapting or managing our lives differently.  Things like autism and ADD (along with lots of others) fall into that category, in my mind, and I think many people who have a neurological system that is more finely attuned in some areas than average often find either that they tire quickly or that there are other areas where the connections just don't happen as easily.  And for some reason we do often feel that we could overcome those difficulties if we just tried a bit harder.  Personally I think we've had many years of a lack of understanding of the subtlety and nuance that comes with things like ADD and the way it affects people, and I do feel a bit like the big pharma companies have kind of steamrollered over more gentle ways of managing health, like accepting you can't do things or resting up when you need to.  So yep, I get that you can feel differently about certain aspects of health.  I think it's also tricky because general public understanding tends to quite concrete, I find.  So if someone sees a fella without any legs in a wheelchair, they have no problem understanding that.  But when people see someone who is intelligent and accomplished living in an untidy house they often assume it's laziness.  A neurological condition isn't the first thing most people think about.  So it is hard, but hopefully it will get easier (to cope with, I mean, not to change the condition).

And Jeez, yes, the endless cleaning!  I do think a lot of that is society - if you were a man living in an untidy home people would assume it's because you were a bachelor, you know?  My mum's house was always immaculate, as was her car, garden, bank account, diary, wall calendar.  She never forgot anything, things were always posted on time, dinner was always ready at 6, laundry was ironed as soon as it came in off the line, I can tell you with absolute certainty that she never had to wear the same pair of pants twice because she'd run out of clean clothes.  But she was also an alcoholic living with an abusive man and carrying the weight of a thousand childhood incidents that had eaten away her soul.  I think I said something to you before about the work you've done on yourself and how much you help other people out because of all that work.  An untidy home but a beautifully polished heart and soul.  I know which of the two I'd prefer.  And you'd have loved being on my step this morning; one of the cats was in such ecstacy having his ears rubbed that he toppled over and rolled off down the steps like a slinky.  Lol.

I get the sense of shame over the way things are at the moment as well.  I don't know if I feel shame but I do feel a deep disappointment in human behaviour.  Lots of people have done very good things but I do feel it's been overshadowed by appalling governance, profiteering on basic supplies, panic buying and then having the brass neck to THROW AWAY ALL THE FOOD THEY PANIC BOUGHT BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T EAT IT!  Seriously, bin men were taking photos of bins overflowing with food that was chucked out a week after the shops sold out of everything they had.  What kind of idiot doesn't at least buy it and put it in the freezer.  And a missed opportunity, I feel.  I thought the pandemic showed how everyone needs access to good quality healthcare, how we all need a secure benefit system in place because you never know when you might lose your job, how quickly air quality improved when people left their cars at home, how many people offered to help out people they didn't know.  But all of that was quickly replaced by people desperate to get back to the pub and go shopping, and pharmacies selling Calpol for £16 a bottle when it usually only costs £2.  Bleurgh.  Yep, I get what you mean and no, we can't fix it alone.  We can each only do our own little bit and just hope that enough of us do that x

[sKePTiKal]

Hops, I get the shame for how people are acting in our country. But I realize that's something outside of my realm of influence (or control). Everything exists all the time, right? It's just that sometimes there is enough critical mass of people who agree on basic values & manners - that the negative stuff seems "rare" and therefore managable. More importantly - I'm not acting that way, doing those things; I've chosen something different for me & mine. THAT I can control to a better extent, reach understandings about limits, boundaries & expectations. What goes on outside my "little country" here... as long as it's not directly affecting me or about to... goes to the bottom of the list. Why?

Because if EVERYTHING is of equal importance, NOTHING is "important". If EVERYTHING is OK; socially acceptable - then nothing's BAD. And that conundrum is mentally/emotionally overwhelming & exhausting to me. I don't think it's reality either. I suspect my "short-circuit" is similar to the lack of focus you might experience from ADD.

There is a side-effect to this experience of living with Hol. Some of her psychological quirks are still quite alive & well - and they're mostly self-destructive. Not so much sabotaging anymore - she's getting a good grip on that. It's the destructive stuff - and that's mostly sub/unconscious - because she still refuses to accept some basic tenets or facts. She goes through an episode of reliving or experiencing it again on a cyclical basis. And PART of triggering it, I think, is when she starts to beat up on herself mentally - comparing herself to other people, comparing her ability to move forward on the Hut at a pace that no one else can keep up with -- because that's what she did in production, when working. She's forgetting the toll that took on her mentally, emotionally and physically. She IS much healthier now... moving at a slower pace... without wasting so much emotional energy over perfection, timing, effectiveness.

She starts by critcizing and judging herself. The is always the implication that some else - who is more "perfect" - would be smarter, stronger, more effective. The mental tapes. What I call self-abuse -- because I internalized all those labels/tags stuck to me when I was highly sensitive and vulnerable and unable to protect myself. It's all starts with thoughts - oh! the cleaning lady is coming and she's going to react in horror at my pigsty mess - and then that triggers uncomfortable emotional reaction, and to cope we reach for our nearest self-soothing comfort strategy - which means we haven't really addressed anything about the topic and then we beat ourselves up for THAT. It's a self-perpetuating cycle; feedback loop.

Eventually, everyone finds what works for them to disrupt that automatic loop. For me, it was simply slowing down - taking my time to notice what I was doing, putting my attention into washing that one dish... or reseasoning that skillet so it wouldn't be so hard to clean next time... and if I did a little everyday there simply wasn't a lot of "big jobs"; the one-square-foot method. It even makes the most mundane task more enjoyable to me; and I remember them and the pleasure derived longer. And that creates a NEW feedback loop.

(Oh, and I think there's probably an admin setting in the software that turns on/off the emoticons; it must be off.)

[Hopalong]

Thanks, CB. I've read books that show a silver lining in ADD for some...the main thing I recognize is major hyper-focus when it comes to writing or editing.

My difficulties aren't about not knowing steps or classic pragmatic tips ("set a timer" and "build in rewards" and "break large tasks into small steps"). They are more about two things, I think:

--When I do start domestic things, I turn into a hummingbird and suddenly my focus evaporates, so tasks once begun are often unfinished, left out, abandoned. Not always but much too often (especially repellent or scary tasks, chiefly paperwork).

--Motivation and will. When I was younger I used to start and maintain exercise programs periodically with fair success. Not any more although I did order some basic equipment that is easy to use, and have a recumbent bike sitting out.

I think the second issue is mostly emotional. When I moved into this house 8 years ago I was full of excitement. Since I lost my D around the same time, a lot of my interest in my own dreams evaporated. Including my own creative writing, which is a disaster to abandon, because it's the one thing that feels like pure purpose and joy, ONCE I START.

My room when I was young was such a wreck that my desperate mother would take pictures of it to show her guests. Speaking of shaming....LOL!

Actually, although untidy, the house is clean now and I'm up to date in the kitchen and have a friend coming to patio-sit later. So I'm feeling some good vibes about my home today.

The garden has been very hit or miss. Blossom end rot on all the tomatoes because of my inconsistent watering. When I start a garden I'm full of zeal, but it almost always hits the same wall as other domestic projects that require sustained attention. And if I'm not careful, I feel a huge sense of failure and shame when it does.

Thanks for thinking about it, CB. I think it's part ADD and part failure of will and part grief and part laziness and part rebellion and part...there must be more!

hugs
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Thanks, CB. I've read books that show a silver lining in ADD for some...the main thing I recognize is major hyper-focus when it comes to writing or editing.

My difficulties aren't about not knowing steps or classic pragmatic tips ("set a timer" and "build in rewards" and "break large tasks into small steps"). They are more about two things, I think:

--When I do start domestic things, I turn into a hummingbird and suddenly my focus evaporates, so tasks once begun are often unfinished, left out, abandoned. Not always but much too often (especially repellent or scary tasks, chiefly paperwork).

--Motivation and will. When I was younger I used to start and maintain exercise programs periodically with fair success. Not any more although I did order some basic equipment that is easy to use, and have a recumbent bike sitting out.

I think the second issue is mostly emotional. When I moved into this house 8 years ago I was full of excitement. Since I lost my D around the same time, a lot of my interest in my own dreams evaporated. Including my own creative writing, which is a disaster to abandon, because it's the one thing that feels like pure purpose and joy, ONCE I START.

My room when I was young was such a wreck that my desperate mother would take pictures of it to show her guests. Speaking of shaming....LOL!

Actually, although untidy, the house is clean now and I'm up to date in the kitchen and have a friend coming to patio-sit later. So I'm feeling some good vibes about my home today.

The garden has been very hit or miss. Blossom end rot on all the tomatoes because of my inconsistent watering. When I start a garden I'm full of zeal, but it almost always hits the same wall as other domestic projects that require sustained attention. And if I'm not careful, I feel a huge sense of failure and shame when it does.

Thanks for thinking about it, CB. I think it's part ADD and part failure of will and part grief and part laziness and part rebellion and part...there must be more!

hugs
Hops

((((((((((((((((((Hops)))))))))))))))))))))  Do also keep in mind you've just broken up with M.  That wasn't an easy decision for you to make and you must be missing him - not all the stuff, I know, but the good bits were good.  Plus we have a fairly major global situation going on that isn't letting anyone sleep easy in their beds.  And if the worst thing you can say about yourself is that you don't always finish what you start then I think there are plenty out there doing far worse   It's easy to start a project, everyone has energy and enthusiasm at the beginning.  But housework isn't the most enjoyable passtime (for me at any rate) and neither's paperwork, so going off in search of something a bit more interesting isn't the most unreasonable response xx

[Twoapenny]

Hops,

So many really wonderful thoughtful answers from Skep and Tupp this morning. I was even soothed by their perspectives.

Most of my family have struggled with this--both my ex and myself, and both of our FOO before us. And now several of my kids, some of which are ADD. The kids and I brainstorm a lot about it. The ones who struggle feel a lot of shame as well, but I was very relaxed about their rooms when they were teens and young adults. (Still am, with the son that lives with me--he's on the other side of the house so I never see it)

Can you pinpoint exactly how the ADD impacts your incapacity? Do you look at a mess that needs cleaning up and not know the steps to start? Or do you have a chore that you wander away from because you get distracted and can't stay on task? I have you come up with any little tricks that help?

I think that what you are struggling with feels isolating, like everyone else has their act together, but I dont think that's true. There seem to be so many books about it that it is something that a lot of people havent resolved.

I read an essay a couple of years ago that ADD is actually a throwback to a hunter-gatherer trait and is only labeled a problem because it doesnt work in our form of society. I was intrigued by that, and wondered what I could do to create something closer to what I naturally do. It was interesting to think about.

Much love,
CB

I've read similar about the hunter gatherer thing, CB, and a friend of mine has a son, lovely lad, who is diagnosed with ADHD, I think (I'm never sure if that's the same as ADD or a similar thing).  He'd been expelled from two schools by the time he was seven and she was told he was unteachable, her parenting was blamed (the fact her older daughter was sailing through school was ignored) and it was generally a horrible time for them.  They bought some land and set up a small off grid farm, both the kids were then home educated and every trace of her son's ADHD vanished - and only comes out when they have to go to something indoors and fairly rigid.  He rides tractors, gathers up animals, helps with the lambing and she's got some beautiful pictures of him nursing a poorly lamb back to health.  They resuscitated it when it was born as it wasn't breathing alone and it was very weak and poorly so her lad literally carried this little thing with him in a sling like a baby, fed her by hand, took her for cuddle time with her mum and kept her in his bed so she was warm and he could feed her through the night.  He's so loving and caring, very sensitive lad, he's lovely with my boy and yet if you read his old school reports he's this savage who can't be tamed.  It's very telling, and equally that some of us have found the lockdown much less stressful that normal life.  It's making me feel I need somewhere remote, the noise as everything opens up again is driving me mad.

And I agree with Skep, I think we can only focus on our own domain, or at least make that the priority.  People are pulling in different directions for different reasons right now and none of us is stretchy enough to cope with that, I think xx

[Hopalong]

Tupp,
It's easy to detect how very deeply you have confronted and accepted and acquired wisdom about differences, especially the neurological/wiring kind. I feel I'm the beneficiary of not just your kindness, but also your years raising your precious son, which gives you real insight into the frustrations of other wiring issues such as ADD (nowhere near as big a learning curve as autism plus seizure disorder), which you accept as realistically as everything else. It's so refreshing and comforting. You're a human "safe space" for these kinds of things and it's true, that acceptance washes out shame in others. Thank you.

Plus, the paragraph you wrote about cleaning, your mum's life, and the cat falling down a step like a slinky was amazing. A gem of WRITING. I'm going to go read it again.

I could so relate to the young man with ADHD you described (the H is just for "hyperactivity", ironically, and I must be missing it for sure or the house would be cleaner! ). I call mine the old-school plain ADD because I have the "inattentive" type. What's with these people? I'm extremely attentive...to 15 things at once!
I loved that story of his flourishing on a farm. I remember school as a torture for me. It wasn't physical restlessness in my case, as much as massive boredom, which in itself was a kind of torture. One exception: English class. I loved everything about words and writing and reading and diagramming sentences. Good thing, too, because since I flunked the ninth grade I got to do it all over again an extra year. Sometimes I think that was the silver lining in that painful experience (tiny school so getting mocked for being "held back" was rough) -- maybe I became a poet in part because I had that extra time to focus on writing?

Cat falling like a slinky. If only I could draw...I'd love a pic of them doing it side by side!

hugs
Hops

PS And thanks for reminding me I may still be in a grief phase over my breakup breakup with M, too. I have kind of overlooked that, because every day I still feel confident I made the right choice, reflecting back on personality conflict between us and how I reacted to it. At the same time it is still a loss of companionship and security, so you're right, I must be trying to process that too. I welcome the freedom from his strains of energy that were so hard to be around, but do miss the other elements that were delightful, and the confidence of knowing I'd reach old-old age in a safe way. My rational mind is okay with it all, so I forgot to tend the other parts that are seeing the future may not shape up the way I'd like; so be it.

[Hopalong]

(((Amber)))--
The American shame piece..... For me it's not so much the crass uncivil behavior of members of the public...but the behavior of the government. I just don't see how people develop elevated ideals such as manners, civic duty, compassion and discipline when the government has its priorities backward and there's no central national habit of religion, which used to accomplish parts of that (not that I'm recommending repressive religions, hell no). You have to EDUCATE kids into admiring and emulating those qualities, and if their families feel no hope and live under huge stress in chaotic or culturally barren worlds, urban or rural, then blaming families all day long does not help, because without serious government support particularly to redress generational poverty....it cannot change. We get what we elect, and I should have been more awake to the local ramifications sooner.

That famous old 60's bumper sticker: What If You Had to Hold a Bake Sale to Buy a Bomber? For me that was brilliant. Military over mind development eventually results in unnecessary wars and lost potential of generations.

If we don't invest massively in outstanding public education for every child in EVERY zip code especially poor rural and inner city ones, with extra enrichment and cultural activities including whatever travel can be arranged for kids...then they don't learn critical thinking, aren't exposed to people and stimulation or mores outside the "tribe" they live in, and can turn out to be bigoted or addicted or abused or violence obsessed (with easy guns). It's old fashioned but I genuinely believe that in many cases the internet, TV, video games and porn have just totally f****ed up kids' minds and drained them of their naturally bold independent curiosity (you have to live in a neighborhood where it includes access to nature areas and it's safe to go outside and explore!-- speaking of government investment) and hope. That's where my sense of shame for the country comes from...our government's priorities, and how politicians and oligarchs and espeically mindless commercial media have raped us. Health care: obscene. Early child care: should be just as excellent as classrooms. Decent jobs and wages: must exist in every zip code. Every community should build a gorgeous (even if small) museum about ITSELF and its own true history good and bad, and an art gallery for locals talented or not, and a community garden, and places for kids to gather and do something creative and connected to the world besides shoot hoops. There should be creativity and excitement everywhere. Music and art and whole-community theater! Kids in W. Va should be Zooming with kids in Zimbabwe!

When I was a poet in the schools, particularly inner-city and Appalachian ones, it hit me over and over how naturally brilliant and creative kids are, and how tragic it was to see the excitement and dreams gradually fading as they got older in the kids who were obviously from poor backgrounds. Broke my heart daily. (The privileged suburban ones, from mostly upper-income white neighborhoods, were busy planning how they'd step right into roles of significance, security and satisfaction.) That imbalance is what American shame is about for me. Bake sales to buy pencils. Our VERY first principle is: All men people are created equal. It's time!

Rant, rant....but still, thank you so much for reminding me again that we can only live on our own mountains ultimately, at least on a daily basis. If I can tend to my mini-mountain with more serenity (ultimate ADD coping goal) then I'll also be more fit to go do something helpful in community afterward, since government can't/won't. At least for a while. It's going to take massive popular will to rebuild and I hope to god people pull together for a change. The pandemic is a lot like war, and if we could possibly respond with a sense of shared identity once we quit shaming each other (tribal conflict) as we did for WWII, then we could pull together and rebuild a country to be proud of that also owns and makes amends for the mistakes it's made. While restarting all kinds of innovation and drive and exciting promises. Green New Deal, paid national service year for all h.s. grads-- all the way!

hugs
Hops

PS No need to get into all these weeds with me--it's too much work, but I can enjoy my little rants all by myself! Kind of manic but fun. And wanted to add, since y'all are my journal...one of the main things that attracted me to UUism was how they teach kids world religions and sex. We have a curriculum that includes extensive visiting of OTHER places of worship, so they go to local black churches and feel that joyous energy and sing their throats out, go to the mosque and remove their shoes and listen to the Koran teaching and then get their hands painted with henna by young women in hijabs (while laughing with strangers and enjoying great food after during a potluck), go the synagogue and watch the rituals of Torah and listen to a strange language, Hebrew, and likewise wind up laughing with strangers and enjoying great food, go to a Catholic church or cathedral (bus trip) and smell incense and hear Latin and gorgeous choirs, etc.

All that takes MONEY, especially when to find a mosque or a mass you have to get them in a van or on a bus to a city, but it is SO worth it. They come back and present a service of their own every year, with lots of individual stories and thoughtful reflections and they are so inspiring to the rest of us.

About sex, we have a curriculum called OWL (Our Whole Lives) and it's demystified and loving and responsible and everyone I know who is a lifelong UU (rather than a transplant) talks about how formative that was.