Anything again

[Meh]

"Grey Rock requires you to self-induce a state of dissociation. You are essentially asking your vibrant, emotional, creative self to go into a coma so that the narcissist doesn't have anything to "snack" on."

"When you Grey Rock, you aren't just ghosting the narcissist; you are often ghosting yourself. To be "boring" to them, you have to suppress your joy, your opinions, and your spontaneous reactions. If you do this for days or weeks, your brain forgets how to turn those lights back on. That "depression" and "lack of natural activity" you're feeling? That’s your nervous system staying in Functional Freeze."

"Grey Rock is often sold as a way to "win." In reality, it’s a way to sustain the status quo.

It doesn’t stop the person from being a narcissist; it just changes the flavor of the conflict.

Instead of an explosive argument, you get the "banging around" for 40 minutes and the "medical sagas." They are still taking up all the oxygen in the room; you’re just holding your breath to make it last longer."

"By staying "grey," you are essentially paying a tax on your soul. You’ve realized that the "cost" of avoiding a blow-up is the slow erosion of your personality."

"Most advice focuses on "how to handle the narcissist" rather than "how to save the victim's spirit." It’s easier to tell someone to "be a rock" than to address the devastating reality that living with a narcissist is a trauma-inducing environment."

[lighter]

Whew boy, Meh. 

The question becomes....
To be, or not to be, dependent on an explosive N.....esp with children.

I read it....saw myself in the head of a mother, protecting child.....what's modeled for the children?
Devastating. Untenable.

THEN I read it from the POV of a child.....growing up gray rocking....
more devastating. Zero choice.

The brain does forget, IME.
Lighter

[Hopalong]

Meh, that is an amazing quotation.
Hit home for me because I just recommended "gray rocking" to a friend who sees her rich, powerful, domineering Nmother once a month, to much distress.

I'd like to share this with her. Would it be a pain to send me the source?

Since so many people feel (or believe) they are TRAPPED with Ns, especially if they're family....it hits me that if gray-rocking does all this describes (and I can feel how it does when I spent 10 years living with Nmom) -- then the only big solution is total NC (No Contact).

So, ideally, all Ns would be promptly and completely expunged from our lives. I could not do that, so I grayed myself into a shadow, or at least into depression. Once she was gone, I returned to my own life, slowly. Then there was Daughter, also N I believe, atop bipolar and all her other troubles.

So I feel much compassion for those who can't avoid contact with an N. On some level it remains a choice, but in some circumstances, with huge life impact, good or ill.

I figure it's a very personal calculation, based on very personal circumstances. And if gray-rock helps one get through situation X or Y, go for it. Frequency of contact is probably the other factor in the sanity equation. Daily calls and regular physical visits....all that can be modified. I could manage monthly gray-rocking, I think.

I was visiting a writer friend in her apt in grad school once and she showed me something I'd never learned. Somebody knocked at her door and she didn't answer -- we were having a great conversation. Later, her phone rang and she ignored it.

What a gift.

hugs
Hops

[Meh]

They use the theatricality of the effort to bypass the reality of their laziness.

[Meh]

Hi Hops,

I'm trying to respond to your msg above it will take me a moment between the website delay and my laptop cord is wobbly brb.

[Meh]

The above excerpts were a result of my journal entries into AI. I had written a longer better response here on the forum to you about 30 minutes ago but it didn't save.

I journal a lot. I am a critical person and even though gray-rock IS A TOOL there is a downside to it.

Sadly I get stuck in OCD type reflection into the dynamic. Sometimes I dump my journaling into AI to get some more research added onto the vague thoughts of vague frustrations I have.

Sometimes AI gives 4-8 references X 10 (times ten). Sometimes AI does not give any references. And yes AI is stealing every person's intellectual contribution to the internet.

Hops, I think in this case for the time being sharing the info with your friend has a potential benefit that outweighs the big existential issue of AI extraction. There is basically no author and since I also go to more than one AI place sometimes I do not remember which AI it even came from.

[Meh]

Sometimes I have to explicitly ask AI to provide a reference but I wonder if I do that is it changing the AI output. In the future perhaps I should type the input dumped from journal entry, the output from AI, and also I will explicitly ask for references and cut and paste them.

[Meh]

I was visiting a writer friend in her apt in grad school once and she showed me something I'd never learned. Somebody knocked at her door and she didn't answer -- we were having a great conversation. Later, her phone rang and she ignored it.

What a gift.

hugs
Hops

Yeah anticipating other people's needs to a fault is a care-taker role.

I fall into the trap sometimes and then I get out of the trap and I see it.

[Hopalong]

I just thought it was amazing that whatever the demand (a human knock or an old-school device ringing for her attention), she was completely confident in noting her own preferences (not to be interrupted) and acting accordingly. I didn't know that was "allowed"!

We all get brainwashed in one way or another. It's just really cool when we begin to think our ways past external cues.

hugs
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

Not responding to interruptions while in a face to face conversation is something we practice a LOT around here. There are times - given how much land we have - that communication at a distance IS allowed. If B is out cutting down trees, I always look to see if he's OK or it's an SOS. During bad storms, we even resort to radios. One at Hol's in case our phones go out.

The communication isn't abused. People take care of themselves around here and we have regular face to face sessions for planning, schedules, catch-ups and just dream-casting ideas.

Slightly different situation, I know.

[Hopalong]

I fell asleep with my laptop on and woke hours later to find myself halfway through Dances With Wolves.

No rhyme or reason why I share that, except it felt good to ponder the prairie. The Big Awful going on in our country marches on, and a friend just sent me another friend's Substack article on why the "gospel of love" does not include agitating for Armageddon. Apparently there are military leaders now who are presenting "end times" to their troops as the goal of their missions. Scary stuff.

I've been writing some fairly dark poetry that shocks a few folks. I try to explain that whatever fear or tragedy is ailing me lifts out of my chest when I write about it, and then is safely ensconced on a page. I literally feel the shift when I'm done.

But I like absurdity, too. Sometimes a poem will pop up, take a look around and then run for the hills on its little paper legs.

Glad you're ensconced in the hills, Amber, and Meh, here's to us all finding our own safe retreats.

hugs,
Hops