Mothering Again, con't.

[Guest]

Hops, I know you'll toss it if it doesn't work for you. On those post-its, how about including:

What would she do if I was killed by a truck yesterday?

What would she do if I was in hospital and unconscious?

What would she do if she couldn't get me on the phone?

[BonesMS]

thank you so much, Bones.

xo

Hops

((((((((((((((((((((((((((Hops)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[sKePTiKal]

EXACTLY FW...

Good questions, all.

More to say along those lines, just not time yet - and no time to type it, either.

[Hopalong]

Thanks for the suggestion, PR -- I can see you rearranging knotty bits visually, like an artist and a programmer at once. Would that I could hand over all the bits and have a sure eye for the final pattern! Thank you for applying your mind to it, I truly appreciate the thinking.

FW, those are insightful questions, because they direct me back to her scraps of resourcefulness. I don't know, and perhaps I can't know, just how far over the edge -- or even how far on a downhill slide -- she will go either helplessly or willfully or some combination.

But it is true, if I were gone tomorrow, she would have to find her own way to survive.

I just hope that in cutting off -- or down to merely keeping her phone paid for -- the flow of "bailout", I haven't timed it wrong. That's my terror. I know...ultimately the untangling and backing off...is a healthy process.

But she's sicker than I thought and the economy (and her own) really is terrifying. Bottom dropping out.

It's like being in a vice. Worse, by far, for her.

thank you again,
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

Hops

There is a pattern in this. I'm getting pinged at a couple different places in my experience - my story-experience and the changes to my mom-relationship with my girls.

I see her request for books as a really, really good sign. I felt some urgency in the request, too. It's not a distraction, for your D... I don't think, at root. I really do think she's like many of us here... looking for that explanation that makes it OK to be her... and to marshall the rest of her skills, talents, energy to deal with boring stuff like rent, food, gas, electric. I think she's reaching for enough of an "AHA!" moment... to help her feel "free" enough from whatever soul-issue she's grappling with to care about the other practical things.

I have written; deleted; edited... for 3 days to you. Every mom and daughter have to find their own way through this experience you're going through. Right now, I'm calling it:

Mutually Assured Dependence

What this consists of, changes over time... just as the relationship, quite naturally, changes over time. It's one of the scariest things we go through, as moms. There are some worse, I can think of. But this is never an easy, straight process. The outcomes are never "perfect" to a universal standard... but you can get to what "works" best for both of you.

I hope that's not too cryptic. It's defying my ability to spew words at it and find some that "stick".

[Hopalong]

I really do think she's like many of us here... looking for that explanation that makes it OK to be her... and to marshall the rest of her skills, talents, energy to deal with boring stuff like rent, food, gas, electric.

Truly, she is. We're all in the same human boat. And her process of de-enmeshing, individuating better, setting boundaries -- I am utterly on board.

The crisis now isn't my wanting to cling, it's that she's really ill. I've been educating myself on bipolar and if (I don't know!) this is a true bipolar crisis--it's not about maturation or processes or "learning" or identity processing...it's about her possibly being in an acute situation because she is unwell. She's down to $300 and has no income, and no plan, and an angry landlord who may be about to evict her. (She's meeting with him now.) I couldn't reach her last night. Wrote my T, who gives good advice...he suggested I call the local emergency services, describe her situation/symptoms as best I can and see what they advise. Bottom line, they think if I haven't heard from her by tonight I should contact someone in the area to go check on her (I would first try the remote church contact I have; then I do have one phone number of her acquaintances in the area). Last resort, ask the police to check on her.

Any confrontation or intervention or "calling in the cowboys" will mean a complete challenge to and possible rupture in our relationship, so I'm thinking very cautiously and want to err on the side of NOT intervening. But, the challenge is, I must keep separate my respect for her autonomy and the actual "medicalness" of what she's going through. The only information I have is my best observations of how she's been sounding on the phone. Up, down, crashed, manic, panicked, or, now...silent. It's hard to know and I can't be a professional and assess it that way.

According to bipolar crisis info from the NAMI and similar orgs, her literally not being able to take care of her life, clean her apartment, make decisions to get unstuck--and that she really isn't being adequately treated (has a phone-in SSRI from a shrink she can no longer afford to see since she's left school, and the school T she did have she believes hasn't helped her at all)--all add up to suggesting a hospitalization (voluntary would be ideal) to get her stabilized and doing better.

I literally can't imagine how she'd respond to that suggestion, but probably with horror, fear and rage. She is just now coming around to accepting how serious the diagnosis is...I realize she's been in denial about its impact for a very long time. Probably isn't a coincidence that she decided to tell me about it a few months ago. She's asked for books and has started wanting to talk about it...but my comments must be VERY calm and limited when she brings it up.

The toughest thing to bear is that my anxiety about her spiraled, too, and one recent evening I had to tell her I really wouldn't be able to do a good job listening that evening. I am trying so hard to be calm and unreactive every time I hear from her. That is what she needs. But it triggers me too, so though I help her some, I do an uneven job of it.

Anyway...that's the update as of now.

If anybody's reading this--send her white light as she's right now in conversation with her pissed-off landlord. He happens to be a physician (an eye dr.) so my prayer is that she'll tell him more about herself, and that he'll be kind.

love,
Hops

[Hopalong]

Oh for god's sake.

While I'm utterly panicking, talking to MH professionals, imagining the worst...

She had an out-of-town friend stop by (very kind friend) who helped her clean up her apartment, move furniture, and throw out tons of stuff.

So while I'm imagining her crashed and endangered, she's redecorating. Her phone was on vibrate.

She blew off her meeting with the landlord. "I don't want to think about that now."

Anyway, I'm drained. I know her next crash will come, and she still has no plan.

But she sure was cheerful (maybe manic, I don't know--).

If my hair wasn't white last week, it'd have turned.

Thanks for listening, none of it wasted...the issue is not going anywhere but she's clearly okay for today.

love,
Hops

[lighter]

Whew.  Glad your daughter was having a positive day, even if you weren't, Hops.

Lighter

[Hopalong]

Thanks, all, Lighter and TT...

And TT, me too!

love and gratitude,

Hops

[sKePTiKal]

OY VEY, Hops... !!!!

Time for you to take a time-out from the problem, probably... I'm sending you visions of a nature meditation retreat, a lonnng massage, yummy foods and a down feather bed.... and perhaps, an attentive and attractive pool boy, too. Yes, white light to D too... but with a different result in mind.

I thought I saw a feedback loop, in your Ds behavior... with one small (but vital) glitch. That mutually assured dependence, consists of someone caring for/about her - giving her that input... so that she can feel OK about herself, safe enough to give herself one thing at a time (even tho that one thing seems irrelevant to the urgency of circumstances) - like a nap. The problem or glitch comes in... that she isn't - for whatever reason - able to convert that positive input into being able to provide it to herself. Right now, I'm getting the sense that the most important thing to her is how she feels in any particular moment. And she's hoping that the good feelings last - all by themselves - and only then, will she be able to really address the basic life issues she's facing. And when they don't last, she then feels beset by the weight of the multiple of problems and they are enlarged with the lack of the positive input (at that very moment that is)... and she seeks that caring/positive input again, with all those hopes attached to the search... etc. And it's unimportant to make contact or connect - when she's already getting that positive attention...

this is only one explanation, and being at a remove from it, I can't vouch for the probability of it being accurate. But it is what was connecting with me, in your descriptions. It scared me to death - for your sake - because it's incredibly slippery to find any sure handholds on it... from the outside. Here's hoping your D can find a handle from the inside... and learn to tame this enough that she can start putting the normal, mundane stuff (to her) together, and relieve you from this level of justified anxiety about her. For you, it's like pissing in the wind... because any and everything you do has no lasting effect, to the good. She's still a long way from that problem on HER priority fix-it list.

And it appears that this is how she's relating to everyone - not just you, dear. It's not the same as co-dependence.... the origins/thought processes/etc are different... but you might be able to use techniques from there... to help a little, in this situation.

AFTER you've had a break from it.

<total aside> OH... and there's a fix for white hair! LOL... mine looks like I stuck my finger in a light socket or was literally scared to death; looks really odd with youthful freckles... so I'm thinkin' it might be time to gradually add back in some color, subtly. The Albert Einstein or Annie Lennox look just doesn't reflect the me inside, you know? I want something warmer, more normal; more "incognito". </total aside>

Hugs...

[Hopalong]

PR, this is absolutely spot-on, I believe, and a pretty amazing summary. Thank you.
I'm actually going to share this with my T.

I'm getting the sense that the most important thing to her is how she feels in any particular moment. And she's hoping that the good feelings last - all by themselves - and only then, will she be able to really address the basic life issues she's facing. And when they don't last, she then feels beset by the weight of the multiple of problems and they are enlarged with the lack of the positive input (at that very moment that is)... and she seeks that caring/positive input again, with all those hopes attached to the search... etc. And it's unimportant to make contact or connect - when she's already getting that positive attention...

As to hair...my hair is better known than I am!
It's my favorite (by genetic luck) feature. Long, wavy, fairly thick, pure white.
(Little kids now and then ask, can I touch it?) Men like it, women like it.
And it also suits my general message to the culture, which is...unprintable....

love, and thanks again for the real insight about my D...

Hops
I wouldn't color it again.

[sKePTiKal]

Thanks Hops - about the hair. Mine isn't quite as luxurious and for some reason, it's "technicolor" in the back - much of the original hue is hanging on in that section - so it kinda looks as if I experimented; it didn't go well; and I made no effort to "fix" it. I'm still on the fence, for a lot of reasons; not least is that fussing so much over how I look still seems so danged irrelevant compared to the bigger needs of life.

I wish I could've put the words together faster about the pattern I saw. I hope, for your sake, that I'm wrong too! My mom is still clearly "like that"; I learned it was perfectly normal and the "right way" to be (despite how much it felt wrong to me; it just didn't fit me); and my Ds will occasionally slip into that subtle undertow. I've worked my way out of that mindset - to my immense relief - even tho I still carry the mental habits and scars of the effects; I've worked with my Ds to see that there are alternatives... and learn how to make those changes on their own... but with my mom, it's something deeper... something more than simply a maladaption to life or a habit, strategy of being that could be changed with enough help and desire.

There's a huge difference between adopting an ill-fitting "way of being" to adjust to temporary life circumstances, to survive... and someone who's bio make up & development experiences create a situation that they can't begin to address without outside assistance. I couldn't begin to know where your D falls in that range - but I'm hoping that it's toward the side, where an AHA moment will start opening the doors for her, to better coping skils and real change.

It's pure torture for moms to watch the forever little ones go through this, I know. It's just as bad as the days/nights of a colicky infant who simply can't be rocked to sleep for more than 5 minutes at a time... and not knowing the exact magic mom thing to do, to make it "all better". Just because we're not able to find that "all better" every single time, doesn't make us bad moms; we're trying! It's almost as if the infant won't accept that; won't really HEAR us (maybe can't coz they're crying so hard?)... and open up to the added resources & comfort... and finally rest. So, both mom & infant get worked up into a spiraling tizzy all the way to exhaustion.

To me, that's a feedback loop - and it's not one of my favorite ones. These aren't nearly as strong, powerful, or all-encompassing as they look. It does take time however, to find just the right place to disrupt the process without causing even more distress. And that's only one way to look at it... what I like about this way of looking at it, is that it lowers the emotional intensity a lot... avoids the blame cycle... and points out where things aren't "hopeless".... it almost suggests the places that could interrupt the spiralling out of control repetition. You might be able to be aware of and take advantage of those points; your D probably not so much until you've practiced together, with you leading the way. Maybe.

Here's HOPING!

[Hopalong]

One revelatory thing for me, too, is that it really doesn't matter what word salad -- up to and including any letter of the alphabet -- can be applied, or temporarily applied, or permanently applied, to my D --

Feeling her jeopardy crystallizes my love for her, and makes it simpler.

I love her with all my heart. I always will.
But that doesn't preclude the requirement to develop healthier responses, as best I can.

The enabling and codependency and learning all I can about healthy responses parts are my homework...and I have a feeling I'll get better at those with time.

Last few days I've been socializing and enjoying my own life.
Hadn't realized how enormously weary I was, the "just fun" things have been a lift.

Went to see "Parade" -- very heavy musical -- with a gaggle from church last night, enjoyed it.

love,
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

Excellent, Hops!

So glad you found relief and re-creation! I've come to look for those "time-outs" as welcome things; not the "jeez, do I have to"s of years gone by... precisely because they remind me that there is more to life than just one topic! Amazingly, those moments seem to help find solutions to those problems... in undefinable ways, too. I think those of us with a hint of obsessiveness, need to be dragged away from our focus on a problem... to find perspective. (speaking for myself, anyway!) We get so close to the details - all we're seeing is trees and not forest.

One last thought on your D... you know how we own our respective stories? have shifted from living the scripts daily to it being a more thankfully "historical" part of our lives? I think our Ds are still in the first stage of this - they're still living the drama and it's still surprising and threatening and unintelligible much of the time. It is a sigh of relief, all the way down to my toes, when my Ds show signs of moving through this stage - and on to the next... and they're doing it "all by themselves" sans mom's input. It relieves me of the decision to dive right into... what I feel I've just finally crawled out of. (and I would "go back in" in a heartbeat if there was no other choice... sigh.)

[sKePTiKal]

Hey Hops!

have things smoothed out re: your D's situation? It's been a while since the last "update" and I was wondering how she was doing and how you're holding up.

(((((((((((Hops)))))))))))))