Hi Tupp:
I was listening to youngest dd practice with her "band" this morning, and thought about what makes a friend, or a friend group..... I was laughing bc dd is the only member who plays an instrument, and most "members" can't sing. It's just her way of drawing together people she loves to be with, who love to be with her, and engaging them in things she enjoys. Being together is the thing they mutually enjoy. I thought about how many things have to come together to create a successful dynamic like that, and I will say this.... her group is fluid. Different kids from her school participate, and step back, other step in, and out. There's no expectation, or judgement. It's just inclusion, and desire to be included, always honoring everyone's comfort level, and free will.
Today DD has 2 kids practicing for a performance this evening. These kids are fearless. They're going to stand up on a stage, and sing, bc my dd asked them to. They're learning NEW songs this morning, which is... brave? Bordering on unrecommended.
Your friend isn't interacting with you, Tupp. She's speaking AT you. That's what she does, and I'm reminded that we're obligated to take time out to assess relationships, and re file people as life goes on. It's not black or white typically, IME. It's simply aligning our expectations with whatever reality surrounds that particular relationship. It could change, and I guess most relationships always do. The one constant is change, right?
You're allowed to come and go in your relationships, with fluidity also. It doesn't mean you reject this friend. It means you need to be with her the way you need to be with her, even if it's not the way she needs you to be, and that's OK too.
Oldest dd is visiting a college campus with 2 of best friends, who share a suite, but in different rooms at this college. Those friends drifted apart at college, and have completely different friend groups.... and it's OK. My dd is jumping back in, bringing the girls back together, but also interacting one on one, and with the different new friend groups. It's fluid, and it's OK, and they don't question it or make a thing of it. There's no learned anxiety around it. No expectations for loyalty, and taking sides. I'm in awe, and notice oldest dd often makes me wonder at her ability to rise above. Just not take notice, much less feel compelled or responsible for anyone else, or their stuff. She's not. She KNOWS this in her bones. Again... I'm in awe.
And that makes me think about expectations again. How some people feel guilty, and some don't. Some give only, and some take only. Some of us have very low expectations for our friends, and very high expectations for ourselves. We take what's there, and we expect whatever it is will meet our needs. I think we forget to assess our expectations, and bring them into alignment with reality, bc that's our habit. That's our default. That's what we were taught, have always done, and just haven't learned anything else. Take what's there, and on offer. Don't look past it. Don't feel worthy of what's beyond, bc beyond is scary, and unknown. Is that lack of faith in ourselves, or the world, or both? I'm not sure. Neither?
Some of us get our energy from inside our own heads, and I'm guessing we're not as affected by having fewer people and social interactions in our lives.
For the people who get energy from other people, and interacting with them...... it's much harder, but I believe life, in general, is easier on the extroverts.
I can see where mindful exploration of our needs, interests, and ability to be fluid in relationship would be helpful.
One more thing... the campus where DD is visiting is doing away with their special interest housing... houses for groups of like minded people, bc of budget cuts. What a wonderful way to bring people together! Kids who don't know anyone find people with the same passions, and poof! Something BIG to share, along with fluid boundaries, and interactions... it seems so good to me. I'm sure some hit it off, and some come together over that one interest, but they come together.
I've never had a large friend group. I have a couple very good friends, and they're all far away, or passed away. I've attempted to join groups to find new connections, and they didn't work out. I think that most of it was my odd situation, my inability to have fluid boundaries.... I just couldn't. I spent yesterday with an Aunt and Uncle that know me, and we enjoy each other SO MUCH! That wasn't always the case, bc my Uncle makes fun of my Aunt, who grew up not smiling much bc of her terrible family situation. She's an easy target, and we've had fun at her expense for years....she's our straight man, which makes her mad, but not too mad, but mad, and I started noticing that about 4 years ago. How we poked gentle fun at her, in gentle ways, and bc of her background, she's always felt like an outsider, and makes it easy to treat her like an outsider.
I'm not going to make excuses, it was pretty mean.... not that she cried.... she just felt apart. I love her, and I love my uncle. At some point, I decided I wouldn't DO that anymore, and the next visit changed... I paid more attention to my Aunt, didn't give my Uncle openings, and just refused to engage in the typical banter. He's very laid back, btw, and he pokes gentle fun at her, never personal mean stuff, but THAT visit wasn't "fun." At least not for my anyone, but my Aunt, who was given voice, and space to use it. The visit ended early. They drove 3 hours for what wasn't the typical successful visit, but the next time we saw them it got a bit better. Then better, and last night's visit was a satisfying interaction of taking turns, honoring what the other had to say, and engaging on a level we had to work up to. We talked about what we always spoke about... family, history, loved ones, and this time we got out the family bible, which I didn't realize existed. My Aunt felt a bit defensive, and reminded me it was the E bible, and passed to the boy who had that last name... so not my mother..... I could tell she felt a bit bad it hadn't been shared, even about it's existence. I was just glad it was THERE, surpirse! I was glad I could take pictures of family trees, letters, photos.... once she got that I wasn't upset, the visit went on. I can say, she can make fun of me, and tries to engage in it with my Uncle... not as gently, but WE TAUGHT HER THAT!
I stay in observer mode, and wait for her to feel she's said what she needed to say.... in this case she's making fun of my trying to figure out a way to cover dog's bums, so they aren't all over our furniture and bedding. I let her get her cracks in, my Uncle listens, does what I do now.... resists piling on, and then it's someone else's turn to speak.
If my Uncle and I are talking about brain integration, or anatomy, my Aunt wonders off, and does something else. She does this bc she thinks it's hoo doo AND it makes her feel dumb, bc she doesn't know anything about it. She gets to SAY that, in her own way..... how it's hoo doo, she'll never let me work on her, and we're free to talk about it, but not with her. Fine. It's a fluid boundary, bc more and more she's listening, and commenting... just a tad. No harm, no foul. We're OK with that.
There are things my aunt and I discuss that uncle isn't interested in. He wonders off too. More and more, though, I want to spend more time with him, bc he's my mom's brother. I worry a bit about spending less time with my aunt when I'm there, and if she'll feel it.... be hurt by it. Now it's my turn to face my anxiety, and seek what I need, while releasing expectation for how aunt will handle it.
One of oldest dd's best friends explained how she and her group lost a friend recently. That young woman was basically asking her group to caretake and parent her. They spoke up, with compassion, and asked her to not call at 3am to request a 7am wake up call for class.... not to request they keep her from doing stupid drunken things, as if it was their job, and to not ask them to do all her school work for her, bc it's her work, not theirs. The friend completely snubbed them, and refused to talk about it.... she just left, and looks at them as though they affronted her. They don't feel too bad about it. They know they spoke with compassion, and honored themselves, which is amazing to see, from my POV, bc I don't think I knew how, much less what that WAS when I was 18yo. Boundaries. Who ever?
Tupp, your friend might leave. She might thank you for bringing her attention to something that's not working in her life, and maybe thinking about it will bring positive change she didn't know she needed? I guess I'm saying we shouldn't view everything like this as negative, and scary. It COULD lead to something wonderful. It could bring growth and wisdom, and depth to her life, and your relationship.
You don't know, and that's OK. You don't want to lose a friend, but maybe it's not losing her. Maybe this will be a fluid boundary that isn't black or white. Maybe she'll handle it poorly, them think about it, and come back, and talk. I believe it would feel like chaotic failure IF she went away. That makes me sad. We deserve so much better than relationships that don't serve us, but we allow to limp along, bc we fear being without.
Relationships change whether we create that change or not. We're entitled to ask for what we need. Heck, we're entitled to have needs, even if it feels odd, or awkward, or selfish.... it's just normal, and we can get used to that.
It's odd.... as I was writing this post one of my 3D friends called, bc she found 2 wills of mine. SHE'S the one who'll decide if I'm unplugged or not if something medical needs to be decided. She's the executor of my will.... she wanted to know which one was to be honored.... neither of us remembered the first will written in 2010, apparently when we were both under terrible duress.... and we talked a bit about this too.
How difficult it is to SEE that fine line between enabling, and helping. You aren't helping your friend by enabling her to talk at other people. Learning to engage in the normal back and forth, give and take cadence of a more balanced friendship isn't a bad thing, IME. It would likely be a good thing for your friend. Even if she chooses to step back, she'll have that in her mind, and she might think about it, and SEE it in a new way. She might decide she wants something else. She might see that she's avoiding her own struggles when she thinks about other people's business all the time. She might be grateful you helped her gain perspective. Or not. Hard to say, and that's OK too. We don't have to know everything. We can't, so we might as well make peace with being curious about how things will go. Expectations aren't very useful, IME.
It's likely all her friendships are this way, IMO, Tupp. She might wear one out, then go to another.... that's how it usually happens. I've had a"friend" like that. Trying to speak to her about it got me hung up on. She won't hear anything other than what she wants to talk about... which is her own voice, and you better keep quiet, or just say what she wants to hear.... mm hmm.... or she just cuts off contact.
She had to go, but my sister stayed in touch, and i had to hear about her through my sibling. It was a point of contention, and I finally just had to say I didn't want to hear about her anymore... my sister was bringing up that friend's problems, over and over, and it was an exercise in wheel spinning. I was done. Sib finally GOT it, and ended the friendship. She didn't have anyone who'd pretend that relationship was OK any longer.
We have to decide what's good for us, and what's not. We have to believe it when we figure it out. We can choose to honor it, or not, but we strive to see it clearly, and make decisions based on reality, not wishing and hoping, and seeing things different than they truly are.
I'll end this huge long post with this....
the friend I spoke to today was my roomate for a time. We worked together on a project. I invited her into my martial arts class in the late 1990s. We hung out together, played together, socialized around martial arts together, and shared other friends. There were 3 incidents in martial arts class that peaved me off, and landed JUST the two of us in protective gear, where the rest of the class wasn't required... mostly bc my friend hit me in the face very hard, when we were supposed to be doing drills, and I THEN TOOK A SWING AT HER HEAD WITH EVERYTHING I HAD out of anger..... getting blindsided by a punch turns out to be something that makes me lose control... I didn't think, I just reacted, and she did a shoulder slip (thanks F for teaching us well) and that instructor knocked us apart, and made us put headgear on.... it wasn't a good workout.
If you're still reading, there was a phone conversation between my friend and I later that day. and my friend asked me about the work out "situation." I said she had a couple of choices..... she could apologize for blindsiding me, stop doing it, and we'd continue our work outs as before OR she could not take responsibility, and I'd begin blindsiding her, at will, when we were doing drills, and she could see how that worked out for her. I saw those choices very clearly, and I didn't see any gray areas.
She didn't have to think about it. She apologized, said she didn't want to be blindsided, and could we go back to regular work outs. I forgave her, agreed on the plan, and went to see what fresh hell was going on inside my father's hospital room.
These aren't easy conversations. They aren't supposed to feel good. They're awkward, and if it's over anything I DO SEE GRAY around, then seems 100 times more difficult to have them, IME. This just happened to be a situation I FELT, saw stars over, and left no room for pretending. I. Was. Harmed. I also want to say I saw this friend do the same thing to a law enforcement recruit in a class we were teaching, and I called her out on it that time too. My friend is as aggressive as society tends to see men. She's fearless, and smart, and terribly responsible... so.... I'm sometimes shocked when I see this type of behavior FROM her. it's not a deal breaker. It's cause for speaking up, and talking to her honestly. She was there for me during my trials. She was there even when it felt dangerous, and she and her husband were frightened to have me in their home during a couple trials. She's in for a penny, in for a pound as she says, and I am too. I accept her as she is. she accepts me as I am. We are, neither of us, perfect.
When she had an auto accident, I was there at the hospital, advocating for her, without any power, trying to talk to her family about second opinions, and researching options.... friend almost died with burst intestines... the broken arm wasn't on the list of priorities.... it was bad. After that she put me down as the person making medical decisions for her, worst case scenario.
We just put her down as the person who'll make that decision for me.
I never assume things are over, or gone too far. I see things as out of balance, or in balance. I've laughed with her, like I seldom laugh with anyone, and there's something deeply validating about being known.... we can't be known unless we're free to speak our truth, without fear, and be seen. Sometimes that truth means we have to take a break, but we speak it, I think, anyway.
Even though we've had years apart, we always get each other. We don't ever ever ever accuse the other of something they didn't do, or something they simply are not.... for any reason. Ever. I can't even imagine it between us. Maybe that's part of it. She's not afraid I'm going to ask her for something she can't and should't give. I know she'll never ask me. We don't manipulate, ever. We know we never have to watch our backs with each other. We know we can get a frank, honest opinion, without judgement, and we never ever ever say stupid dumb things to each other....meaning we never assume things that people who don't know us assume... particulary with regard to family situations, holistic medicine (we found the same practitioner about the same time) and food.
think fear of being alone, fear of appearing like a broken outsider haunts everyone at some time.... esp those requiring more social interaction, which isn't me.
Don't give anything you can't afford to give away, Tupp. Friends don't have to tap dance around the truth, or walk on eggshells, IME. I think you might re frame the situation, and try not to see it as a negative. Try to remain curious, and without expectation.
Or not. You can just let it be what it is. You can remain in observer mode, and see what comes up.
Lighter
ps DD feels they blew their performance today, but has sort of at peace with it. She understands they didn't practice enough. She knows they could practice, and nail it, if they put in the work. That EVERYONE showed up.... all but one of her very large friend group, is an amazing thing. I think that's what the day was about. Including everyone, joining, and contributing. I think she's going to continue with it, and that's a good thing.
AVOIDANCE is coming up for me right now. Avoiding things we can't avoid.... like being honest with people we depend on, speaking our truth, or being assertive, or asking for our needs to be met..... holds us back. If we can build up a tolerance, shift, and reframe..... we get stronger, and grow. First we have to recognize that we're avoiding. Then we learn to deal with it. We feel we get something out of it.... and truthfully we are getting something out of it. Feeling better short term, in the moment. If we can shift, and see what it's costing us, maybe things shift more intuitively.
