Author Topic: Pondering :)  (Read 224 times)

Twoapenny

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Re: Pondering :)
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2019, 06:52:53 AM »
For me, it seems that when I try to express myself verbally, other people around me often attach additional emotions or judgements to simple statements. Things I don't intend at all. So, I've learned to be super-present, editing my word choice or censoring myself, on the fly in conversations.

Do you mean attaching things in relation to you or things about themselves?  It is tiring having to constantly watch what you say. It wears me out lol

I think I generally do a decent job of being sensitive to other people, their emotional state in the moment and needs they might not even be aware of. About like other observant people. All too often, though, the words I use are imbued with a PERCEPTION of meaning outside of what I was saying.

I think I do too good a job of being sensitive to other people and not being sensitive enough to myself!  It's hard when people read more into what you said than you meant, it does cause misunderstanding!

Trying to not evoke that misunderstanding is what takes so much energy on my part.

I don't seem to have the same issues when writing. Perhaps, because there is more time to compose my thoughts and observations, and present them more clearly.

Thanks for asking about, bringing it up Tupp. It's something I continually work on, but it also seems the older I get, the less I care if I'm understood clearly or not! That seems kind of taboo in society these days, so I find myself being more quiet than ever. In reality, what I say isn't any more important than anyone else, and they don't care what I think or see, so perhaps I care too much about being understood? Or so goes my logic about this quirk.

Perhaps it's an unrealistic expectation; perhaps the natural balance between people doesn't include that much understanding as long we're allowing each other to do our own things... and just HEAR them. Acknowledgement, may be all that's needed. Understanding is just "extra credit".

I do think acknowledgement is enough, perhaps it's the same as acceptance?  Doesn't have to mean agreement, just that comfortable sort of 'you do it this way, I do it that way' that's easy to live with.  I don't think many people understand me (or at least that's the way it feels a lot of the time

sKePTiKal

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Re: Pondering :)
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2019, 07:08:43 AM »
Tupp, I find people attach their own perception of what my "ulterior emotional intent" is, when I speak sometimes. (Says a lot about themselves, sometimes too.) Which leads to lengthy (and more complicated) explanations of "what I meant", to head off their feeling offended or hurt before it spirals there.

I guess, that a lot of people "hear" things in what other people say that actually come from their own brains. I do observe myself, doing that sometimes too.

It sure slows down communicating and developing a connection with someone! It's a lot of work; takes energy; and if it happens over every little thing... sheesh... no one's got time for all that.

To me, I guess that's the literal definition of walking on eggshells around someone. And the choice not to do it, comes with a price too. So it's easier to keep my mouth shut and just walk away. Not better; just easier.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Twoapenny

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Re: Pondering :)
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2019, 07:13:11 AM »
Tupp:

i'm processing this, so it's a bit lengthy.  Apologies ahead; )

I think part of "getting over" old trauma is being free from it for an extended time.   Long enough that we're actually safe, so we can begin to FEEL safe again. 

Feeling safe, when we obviously aren't, means we get knocked down even harder when the next threat comes.  We learn that's a mistake, to feel safe when we aren't, so pathways get hardwired in a way that help us survive the worst attacks.   

What I'm trying to get at is..... I think you'd have gotten past your trauma, or been well on your way, further down the road certaily, had your safety in the world not been challenged and threatened consistently through the years. 

YOU WEREN'T safe.   

You've been challenged, again and again, of course you aren't going to feel safe enough to engage the world as though it's safe.  This seems so obvious now, but it didn't yesterday.   

It would be illogical for anyone, including yourself, to expect you'd suddenly FEEL safe, when your experience is screaming the opposite.  It makes me very sad to think about all the times you've tried to carry on, as though you're safe, when there are threats driving by, talking about you to who knows who, and sending flying monkeys into your safe space. :shock:  THAT's interpersonal terrorism!  There should be laws against it.  If strangers were doing this TO US, we'd have some way to fight it, and have done with.  That these bad actors are related to us gives them rights, and strips us of ours, IME.   

I think you've done an amazing job in a world that hasn't been safe in a very long while, if it was EVER safe at all.   

I think you'd be able to do the work, the next level work, that comes when you finally feel safe in your environment, and not threatened.  You haven't had that, and it's unfair, and wrong, and egregiously harmful to put that expectation on yourself.... and esp for others to make you feel it's "normal" and past due.  IMHO... that's wrong stinkin thinkin.  It leads to shame, and guilt, and those are never helpful, IME.

I've been thinking about bc of what you wrote about my putting a price on my mental health....
I need to get straight with what that number IS. 

We both need to get straight with current threat levels in our lives..... whatever they are, bc I think we're still reacting to old threat levels at their highest, bc that's our default set point.  That's where we had to live in order to survive the siege... siege after siege.... that was the place we ended up, without thinking about it.  It was survival. 

I don't think we need to be there now.   I admit, I don't know where we SHOULD be with that, but it's worth taking a long hard look, reassessing, and working toward a new set point for default settings.  Lord, more pressure, I know, but perhaps well worth the effort and time spent.

So, with that said, I want you to think about what it is you've accomplished... I promise you... many people wouldn't or couldn't have overcome what you've overcome, and continue to overcome every day of your life.  You're an Amazon Hero... not just a warrior.  A HERO GIANT.. and I'm here to tell you.... you deserve a medal, not more legal battles to fight.   

And, if you had to go to court over your son's benefits.... would it just be an issue of shuffling papers, getting what he needs, and continuing on?  I can tell you this.... ANY paperwork for me sends alarm bells ringing for me.... like I'm right back in court, fighting for my life..... right back in court, fighting for my children's safety..... and it's not a proper response.  Not any more.  I want to change that, bc it's harming me, and my ability to feel safe in this world.

I want so much for you to have choice, and to have choice myself. 

But where should the threat level be today? 
You can tick off the list...
Odds are, the bad actors:
won't seek me out in my little town, ever.....
won't contact social services bc son is 18yo, and that limits their ability to ____ in our lives....
won't contact friends in this area, undermine my connections or ability to be heard by agencies....
won't send flying monkeys into my safe zones ever again, bc I'll _________ to ensure they don't...
won't put son's father in contact with us again bc I'll _______ to ensure they can't.....
won't keep entering my present moments bc I'm _______ to stop that pattern....


Whatever you do, you have the absolute right to feel victorious.   NOT feeling victorious is a theft against you, IMO.  You deserve to live with less fear, if not zero fear.... whatever the correct threat level is... you deserve to pull it back, get used it, trust it, then begin feeling safe in your world to the extent you can.  It's not appropriate to expect you'll simply begin trusting, 100%, that you're safe, when your experience is that you aren't, IME. 

::sigh::

I'm not sure I believe all that entirely, but I want to.  For you, and for me.

I think we need to cut ourselves some slack, for sure.  Breath, Tupp.... breath out the shame and the guilt and unrealistic expectation any disappointment over not just getting on.  I think our strength, in this area, holds us back.  We don't break, we get harder and smaller, and we circle our wagons till we're cut off from outside by them.  It's understandable.  I see how it happens.
 It's so not fair, but it is what it is. 

I can get behind cutting ourselves some slack.  I believe small, realistic baby steps, toward feeling safe, orbits around BEING safe.... in established baby steps.   

How we address that, and overcome it.... I'm not sure, but I know understanding it, reassessing the threat levels have to be a part of that.  being dismissed, by ANYONE, is harmful, IME.  It doesn't help.  It harms.  It slows the process. It adds shame, and doubt, and we go backwards. 

Maybe we don't ever leave it behind.  Maybe we inch away from it, by small degrees, and then, when we aren't paying attention, bc we've begun feeling safe without noticing it..... we look back and see we've left it behind without thinking about it.

Don't you, for another second, feel despondent, or like a failure for not just putting the past down.   If that can happen, it ONLY happens as the threat recedes.... and that's the way it has to be.  We can't wish that away, or hope it's otherwise, when it is what it is.   

This kind of ongoing human on human conflict dismantles one's physical, and emotional health, IME.  I'm astonished at what you've accomplished.  You're a giant, and if you have the distance, the reprieve from threat that you deserve, I think you'll find a way to feel safe again, and feeling safe is part of figuring out the blocked pleasure/reward centers, honest, I do.

You're an Amazon Hero Warrior Princess, and you're so very strong, my dear.  Not all people/men can handle such strong beings.... but they're out there, and they're worth waiting for.  You've been growing so strong, carrying so much responsibility... you're amazing. 

When that man, who isn't intimidated by your kind of strength, comes along....  you'll both recognize it soon enough, I think. 

In the meantime, you're on your own team, an amazing resource, capable, and competent of accomplishing whatever you set your mind to.   I think you'll finally be able to stop looking over your shoulder, and start being present... really present in your life, when you feel safe.  Not before. 

Maybe, this new social worker will have some ideas about putting "safeguards" in place that you weren't aware of.  Maybe they'll be part of assessing threat, and your ability to defend yourself in a safer world?

(((Tupp)))  I know you're busy.  Don't feel you have to jump in and respond quickly.  I'll be waiting.

Lighter

 

Hi Lighter,

Just responding quickly for now, but .................................... definitely the key to getting over anything is a long period of time without huge levels of stress and/or the same thing (or things) happening again.  What I am finding difficult is that I'm stuck in a hamster wheel that I can't seem to get out of.  Any kind of contact with people raises anxiety in me, to be honest, and any kind of contact with anyone in the public sector can have me through the roof.  That in turn affects my general health.  The obvious (and most sensible) thing to do would be to not have contact with the public sector.  But son will suffer if I don't interact with them.  Interestingly it was one of the things I discussed with the social worker - I can't look after us both.  If I do what I need to do to be healthy and happy, I neglect him.  If I do what I need to do for him to be healthy and happy, I neglect myself.  There isn't a middle road, primarily because looking after him and being his carer isn't something I enjoy or want to do.

Threat levels is an interesting one because I do feel at threat from so many things now, and in many ways my mum is now the least of my worries.  I feel there's a possibility that my health won't recover to a good level and I might be incapacitated for life now.  I also feel there's a possibility I might just have a heart attack or something equally hideous and just drop dead on the floor one day.  There is a constant threat that son's funding might be cut and/or that they won't provide full time residential care for him.  Similarly our Government has just announced more cuts for community services and councils, which will mean even less support for people.  That's on top of the slashing of benefits that's gone on for the last ten years and the constantly rising living costs that have seen my outgoings almost double in the last ten years.  We're kind of to the bone at the minute, financially, and the squeeze seems to just keep getting tighter.

Brexit means we've had a huge drop in overseas workers taking up essential jobs in the public sector, which is putting an even bigger strain on services.  Our tenancy isn't secure and landlord could give us notice to quit at any time now, if he wanted to.  More and more landlords are finding they aren't getting a good return for their money and are selling their properties, and some experts are predicting a drop in house values when we leave the EU which may create problems as well (depending on what you read).  So it's really more those sorts of things that cause me problems day to day, with my mum being a lot further down the list than she used to be.  Social worker could potentially put notes on all his files so that anyone reporting me is referred to her and she deals with it, which might be useful.  Equally my mum might never do it again anyway; she did say the last time she got in touch (son's 16th birthday) that she wouldn't be getting in touch again (and to be fair, I don't think she's made any allegations for a good five or six years now?).  So she's part of the overall problem but a smaller part now, I think.  It's more the practical issues that trouble me now.

Court itself isn't so much the issue, it's the practicalities of spending hours on paperwork, getting legal advice from overstretched charity organisations, finding care for son for the day.  It's just such a faff.

I'm hoping that if I spend the next couple of months just working on resting and getting better that we might go through this year with a relatively small amount of stress and that will help, I think? xx

Twoapenny

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Re: Pondering :)
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2019, 07:22:24 AM »
((((Tupp)))),
I was SO happy to read about that SW's sensible, rational and respectful reaction to your narrative about what you've been through. I can't imagine how that ever would have happened except for YOU. It was the way you talked to her and your calm and rationality...somehow you kept a grip on your system fears, spoke to her like the total adult you are, and thus she was able to hear you.

Or perhaps this SW is just one of the rare bureaucrats who is still capable of listening. And she wants to do her job well. My heart soared when I read that she said, Sounds like we need to put in some safeguards.

And that's all you've been working toward all these years. Safety and guarding your son's well being. I hope this continues. I wonder if you getting to the point of "when he's 18 he's yours" decision has helped you detach more, as you have to do various interactions? (Don't forget we KNOW that has nothing to do with how much you love him, it's that you've accepted the reality of your limits, and thank god you have). You will be a BETTER Mum to him once you are visiting rather than responsible alone.

I also really like Lighter's message about evaluating present threat levels. That helped me too.

love
Hops

Hi Hops,

I do think announcing that I won't look after him post 18 has helped me to focus on telling them that they need to organise things rather than hoping they will put support in place at home.  I did make it clear right at the beginning that I was there to represent him, not myself.  That said, if they did put an amazing at home support package in place I would be prepared to delay him going in to residential care but it would have to be a good enough package that I could work any hours that suited and have a social life (which is unlikely, in my experience).

I think it was the way the social worker handled it rather than me.  I didn't make any effort at all to be nice or smiley the first time I met her - I wasn't rude, but I didn't make an effort.  She got on with what needed to be done and it became clear from her questions that she did understand son's needs, the demands of being a carer and that she understood how stressful I found it all.  I was more relaxed the next time I saw her and when she did the assessment of his needs she suggested things to me that he might need help with, which again showed she understands what sort of problems he has and how they affect him.  That helped to relax me as well, so when she did ask about my mum I was able to explain it calmly.  If she'd been like other people we've had - rude and dismissive from the outset, asking questions that a twelve year old would deal with in a more sensitive way, announcing after two minutes of speaking to him that he seems fine and so on, then I wouldn't have answered any questions about my mum, because I wouldn't have felt she could deal with the information appropriately.  So I did feel that she knew what she was doing and was getting on with it - but equally I've been here before and had an awful report written up so I'm still reserving judgement until I see what's been put in black and white :) x

Twoapenny

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Re: Pondering :)
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2019, 07:25:04 AM »
Tupp, I find people attach their own perception of what my "ulterior emotional intent" is, when I speak sometimes. (Says a lot about themselves, sometimes too.) Which leads to lengthy (and more complicated) explanations of "what I meant", to head off their feeling offended or hurt before it spirals there.

I guess, that a lot of people "hear" things in what other people say that actually come from their own brains. I do observe myself, doing that sometimes too.

It sure slows down communicating and developing a connection with someone! It's a lot of work; takes energy; and if it happens over every little thing... sheesh... no one's got time for all that.

To me, I guess that's the literal definition of walking on eggshells around someone. And the choice not to do it, comes with a price too. So it's easier to keep my mouth shut and just walk away. Not better; just easier.

Yes, easier is good!  I have realised at times in my life that I hear questions as criticisms.  Things like "why did you home educate him?" sound like "Home education is evil!  You damaged him so badly, this is all your fault, you justify yourself to me this instant or I'll make you sorry you hesitated" - which of course is my crap being put on to other people.  So I'm trying hard to listen and accept the question as it is rather than reading more in to it.  So I get what you say about other people putting their own spin on your words.  And yes, trying to tiptoe through it is very time consuming lol x

Hopalong

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Re: Pondering :)
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2019, 11:58:37 AM »
Wise to wait for the report, Tupp...I would too in your shoes.
Hopefully there will be some professionalism in it as there was in your meeting with her.
It almost sounds as though when you stopped trying to impression-manage, things got easier.
But those others bureaus, rude from start to end, would've driven me mad too.
So glad you ran into an exceptional one. Here's hoping she can transfer her good attitude to paper and make things clear and helpful.

And I'm relieved to post to you, as I was panicking over the new Board! Hadda update my bookmark, is all...but instead I got all worried and emailed Doc G.

I DO hope the security certificate of the forum will be updated--Doc G's new homepage is gorgeous.

xo
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Twoapenny

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Re: Pondering :)
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2019, 03:43:44 AM »
Wise to wait for the report, Tupp...I would too in your shoes.
Hopefully there will be some professionalism in it as there was in your meeting with her.
It almost sounds as though when you stopped trying to impression-manage, things got easier.
But those others bureaus, rude from start to end, would've driven me mad too.
So glad you ran into an exceptional one. Here's hoping she can transfer her good attitude to paper and make things clear and helpful.

And I'm relieved to post to you, as I was panicking over the new Board! Hadda update my bookmark, is all...but instead I got all worried and emailed Doc G.

I DO hope the security certificate of the forum will be updated--Doc G's new homepage is gorgeous.

xo
Hops

Thanks, Hops.  I think one of the problems I've had in my life in general is that I've always thought or believed that if I'm 'nice' and do what I'm supposed to do then it will make other people be nice in return.  But - it doesn't.  There are 'nice' people who will be nice whatever they're doing and whenever they're doing it and there are people who will see 'nice' as a soft target and they'll treat you badly.  So yes, a big part of it for me these last few weeks has been about simply being too exhausted about putting up the 'everything's okay and look how nicely I treat you even though I've had bad experiences in the past' veneer.  It's just making me realise that hiding how I feel and pretending I'm fine when I'm not doesn't help me and doesn't have any bearing on what anyone else is doing, either.

I'm hoping the assessment is a more reasonable one; they use a point scoring system for it similar to the one they use for disability benefits so it will be hard for them to argue a lower score than he got from the benefits agencies (who send a medical professional out to the house to assess him and go through all his medical records and so on).  But I'm trying not to get in to working out or planning for the future because I think that's why I fall from such a great height so often - I try to 'think positive' and focus on good things and then when it goes badly it's further to drop.  So I'm trying to just leave it as "yep, it seemed okay and that's as much as I know" for now.  But it would be nice to be posting some good news on here in a few weeks rather than another miserable post :) xx