Author Topic: Relationship/s  (Read 94556 times)

seastorm

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Re: Relationship
« Reply #390 on: May 02, 2020, 08:02:16 PM »
Hi Hops

Last I heard you were applying for a passport just before the full catastrophe of the Corona Virus hit. Hope you had a nice time and got home safely. These are tumultuous times with lots of change. I kind of like staying home.. taking a course in Chinese Painting, Online Pema Chodron, binge watching Ozark  and talking on the phone for about two hours a day, most days. I am adjusting and sleeping and meditating. All very much one day at a time.Oh yes, and learning not to take the bait when a beloved tries to pick a fight.

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship
« Reply #391 on: May 02, 2020, 08:41:37 PM »
((((((((Sea!)))))))))))))

So wonderful to hear your voice. YAY.
You sound like you know exactly what to do when the outer world goes nuts, as you always have.

I'm so happy to hear you.

My passport app was actually before last summer, when M. took me to Paris. Made it (after a small stroke a few days before!) and visited an old friend in Oslo on the way home. Quite astonishing that all that worked out so well, actually.

I love the sound of your quarantine coping. It's more than coping.

My hope is many people will turn to deeper things during this time.

love,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship
« Reply #392 on: May 06, 2020, 08:19:42 AM »
I am all over the map about M these days.

First, we're getting along very well during quarantine. A lot less tension. He seems to have listened during therapy to my descriptions of how hugely stressful I've found his manic, nonstop talking. He's calmer when I visit, less performative, easier to be around. And though he doesn't listen WELL, he's trying more. That's new but very nice!

Quarantine has slowed us down. I talked about how I think we had needed that. From the start of our relationship, M pounded me relentlessly to be his life partner, commit, etc. He's stopped it and the pandemic has jolted him into the present more, me too, and that's a good thing. He's also enjoying very productive work on his articles and a new major book.

In times of anxiety, I still chew on the bad moment we've never unpacked yet. Will be hard to bring it up in T but I will eventually. It was that moment at the jungle house when I had upset/frustrated him (and felt very vulnerable) and he kind of walked around "musing aloud" in a cold way, saying negative things about my character and intentions, but disguising them in the professorial superiority tone. I've never heard it since but at that moment I freaked out, believing I was seeing a different side that could come out during marriage. I will discuss that with my own T today, as she's good at helping me see things clearly. I think I just need to get up the courage to say something like, although with your intellect you're capable of slicing and dicing someone in that sort of cold fashion, if you ever do that with me again when I'm in a vulnerable state and you're annoyed, I will be leaving.

I don't THINK he's a Jekyll-Hyde, really. But my second husband absolutely was, so hence my niggling concern about that. Which may not be entirely warranted.

I do have fears of men and relationships in general. Trust issues. This has come up in couples-T and I think legitimately. The Sikh asked me if I'd ever felt entirely safe in a relationship...and my answer was, more than once, with my father I did.

So after we "worked on" M a whole lot, given his overt dominant manic personality stuff, it's my turn to look at what I'm contributing to our dynamic too. And I feel willing to, because I've been feeling heard by both of them.

In general, I think the update is that we are doing a lot better. I'm glad we slowed down a bit. The commitment is there, but not the urgency.

Though I have to admit I emailed with a lovely young classical musician who'd be quite interested in renting my house. Occurs to me that one way to pass this winter in continuing social distancing, but to prevent isolation, might be to spend it at M's house, and rent mine out for a year beginning this fall. Just to see how living together might go. I haven't said anything to M about it though.

Boy would that give me a chance to face my fears....

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Twoapenny

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Re: Relationship
« Reply #393 on: May 06, 2020, 09:07:47 AM »
I'm glad that the enforced halt has been helpful, Hopsie, and that you feel you can/will talk about that unpleasant time at some point.  I think it's great that you and M have done and are doing so much work on your relationship and yourselves.  And yes I can understand the underlying fear about relationships in general.  I'm not sure I can ever trust someone with my whole heart.  It may just be that the damage will always mean a little bit isn't quite there.  But as you've felt safe before then I would be hopeful that you will again :)

My heart quickened as I read about the young musician; I thought this was a love interest!  Lol.  I think the idea of trying it out with M by sharing for a year is a good one.  My only wee practical concern (with my own mother hen head on, and acknowledging that your rental rules and regulations may be very different to ours, and knowing that you are wise enough to check all of these things out for yourself anyway) is whether you can get your house back early if staying with M does turn out to be the clang of doom for your relationship, or just if there is another bolthole if you feel you need some space and just need a day or two on your own every now and again?  Can M leave his house empty and move in with you (and then go home if it's all a bit much?).  You will figure it all out, I know, I just always go to disaster scenario and have images of you living in a campervan over the winter :)  Lol xx

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship
« Reply #394 on: May 06, 2020, 09:45:34 AM »
VERY good question about a potential bolthole, Tupp. That's my hesitation, a fear of being trapped if it goes south. No, don't have one I can think of, and especially during the pandemic (second wave likely in fall) I don't feel I could impose on a friend. It also occurs to me that this idea (of moving there) could be an impulsive decision. I don't know. It might be a wise next step and would boost my savings account, but it also might be like the panicky premature house-hunting, an effort to get to the future and then relax. Hmmmmmm.....

M cannot move in with me. It's not an option. My second bedroom is also my study, which is private (again a tinge of trust, would he look through stuff?) and even though it also has a bed, because it's right behind my bedroom, his trumpet snoring would kill what's left of my sleep. My house would only suit a VERY close couple who sleep together; perfect for a YOUNG couple. And though I hope to be close one day, I'm never giving up my own room. Just been too long, and my sleep is too fragile. Sharing my sole bathroom would be challenge enough, but the lack of a dedicated bedroom for him that's at enough distance to mute the snoring is key. He once told me his late wife made him go sleep two floors down since the snoring was so intense.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Twoapenny

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Re: Relationship
« Reply #395 on: May 06, 2020, 11:03:13 AM »
VERY good question about a potential bolthole, Tupp. That's my hesitation, a fear of being trapped if it goes south. No, don't have one I can think of, and especially during the pandemic (second wave likely in fall) I don't feel I could impose on a friend. It also occurs to me that this idea (of moving there) could be an impulsive decision. I don't know. It might be a wise next step and would boost my savings account, but it also might be like the panicky premature house-hunting, an effort to get to the future and then relax. Hmmmmmm.....

M cannot move in with me. It's not an option. My second bedroom is also my study, which is private (again a tinge of trust, would he look through stuff?) and even though it also has a bed, because it's right behind my bedroom, his trumpet snoring would kill what's left of my sleep. My house would only suit a VERY close couple who sleep together; perfect for a YOUNG couple. And though I hope to be close one day, I'm never giving up my own room. Just been too long, and my sleep is too fragile. Sharing my sole bathroom would be challenge enough, but the lack of a dedicated bedroom for him that's at enough distance to mute the snoring is key. He once told me his late wife made him go sleep two floors down since the snoring was so intense.

hugs
Hops

Ah, yes, that makes a lot of sense, Hops, my house is so tiny that with another adult here (ie when a friend comes to stay) it is incredibly claustrophobic and there is no privacy or respite from snoring, coughing, farting, talking or anything else anyone is doing!  Yes that would be hard.

Well - don't rush into anything.  You have time to think and plan (and we may perhaps have more news about virus related things which may or may not have an effect).  It may be an impulsive decision but it also sounds like a good way to test the water a bit (a lot!).  Maybe talk it through with T?  Could you maybe stay with M a lot more without renting your place out so it's still 'visiting' rather than 'living together'?  His snoring does sound bad!  My friend snores a lot and although they are a close couple they both say the only reason they've stayed together is because they keep a second bedroom so that they don't always have to share :)  Lol xx

sKePTiKal

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Re: Relationship
« Reply #396 on: May 07, 2020, 09:41:41 AM »
Well Hops... this is exactly what B & I have committed to, no more - no less, longterm. There are many things to fear in that, I agree.

I think you might start working out your side of things, in couples T, before actually MAKING a decision about it. But it would also be good to start hypothetically discussing how things would be expected to work, what possible pros & cons come up, imagining how it would feel living day to day - trying to communicate without pushing each other's buttons and learning a style of working out conflicts (which are inevitable) when they do crop up.

(((((Hops))))) you'll get inspired, pick a path, and go... and it will all be OK. (to quote Lighter's advice to me... LOL)
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship
« Reply #397 on: May 07, 2020, 10:55:08 AM »
Tupp, truth is I have NEVER stayed overnight at M's. The one time I tried I bolted out of there with Pooch at midnight. He'd made zero preparation for me to be there and it was full of her religious books and I just could not sleep. He's moved the books out since but in the interim we had our Upstairs Disaster.

All that can change and will in time if the current trend toward more relaxed feelings around him and better communication continues, with our co-therapy. I am in zero rush and he's accepted a calmer pace too. Just the way it is for us at our age. No logical progression and we are still working out issues.

Talked it over (the moving-in idea) with my T yesterday and realized...yes, it was an impulsive idea. And renting my house out would block my easy return. I don't HAVE to make big drastic steps, and small incremental ones make a lot more sense right now. So regretfully, I'll inform the lovely musician he can check back in fall but as of now, it's uncertain I'll be ready to rent it out. Time will tell. And there are more lovely potential renters around here too. I tend to fixate on fantasies, no less for my house than for me!

What would make sense instead would be that this winter, I give staying over with M a few more tries and see if it goes better. I may broach the idea with him cautiously. I've even thought of asking him if he'd empty out the furniture in the bedroom and have it painted in the soothing soft blue I so love here. And maybe see if a bed I choose would fly as well. If he's super interested in sharing a home with me at some point, his responses might show me how much he really means it.

You're right, Amber, we're fumbling toward a path. And it's important to know as Lighter once pointed out, that I can turn back or turn in a different direction any time I should need to.

I think the renting idea was an impulse, not a plan. Glad I caught that before it went too far. Planning future lives around daydreams hasn't worked too well so far, but having plans and working toward them (as I did to get my own home) feels better.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Relationship
« Reply #398 on: May 07, 2020, 05:56:46 PM »
Hops:

ONE bedroom of new paint and ONE new bed...... not the new home you fell in love with..... seems like a super reasonable request to help you feel more comfortable in M's space. 

SHARING space with M.

It's forward movement I anticipate M won't blink an eye at.

If I'm wrong.... the very nice T will help you figure it out,  I'm sure.

Is the blue you love one of those Restoration Hardware Store blues?  I just love them! 

Lighter

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship
« Reply #399 on: May 07, 2020, 07:08:23 PM »
Thanks for the encouragement, Lighter.
No rush and we'll see, but I like your perspective.

Don't get me going! I LOVE color. My three favorites in my house currently (like the others too, but LOVE these three):
Sherwin Williams 6239  Upward (BR--most peaceful blue I've ever lived with)
SW 7649 Silver Plate (most other walls in public spaces)
Benjamin Moore Chopped Dill, #496 accent wall behind piano, happiest outcome)
The kitchen is a bizarre Caucasian-flesh-toned-Crayon before they figured out how racist it was. I had a sort of Arizona soft peachy sunset in mind. Hah! I enjoy it anyway.

When I was hunting up my paint sheet to share colors with you I found a document I'd written, What I'd Need to Move In with M, and it was pretty modest, but a list of changes I'd need to feel at home. And you're right, there's another spare bedroom too, which would be my study. But that wouldn't happen unless really Moving In.

That was fun.

:)
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Relationship
« Reply #400 on: May 08, 2020, 11:00:40 PM »
Hops:

Whatever you discuss with M..... don't ask for it like you aren't deserving.

You are.

Just assume whatever you need IS what you'll receive and keep moving.

In other words, don't send the message you believe you're asking for something you don't deserve and aren't worthy of.  Your eyes, body language, and words should express confidence.

I LOVE ROBIN's EGG BLUE!  Maybe I'll make both bathrooms that lovely blue; )

Lighter


Hopalong

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Re: Relationship
« Reply #401 on: May 09, 2020, 06:30:44 AM »
Lighter, thank you for this. I need to take on this. I am in fact going to talk about it with my T next week. You spotted something, pre-emptively, that really is an obstacle for me:

Quote
In other words, don't send the message you believe you're asking for something you don't deserve and aren't worthy of.  Your eyes, body language, and words should express confidence.

Much appreciated!

So far I just imagine asking him to empty the one bedroom, and paint. He is kind of a tightwad and would want us to paint it together. A few years back I would've happily done it myself, but right now my body and back are so triggery that I think all the bending would be zero pleasant. But I don't know that he'd be willing to have a painter in.

Speaking of which, I've been through some internal agonizing about getting some cleaning help again. One woman I like a lot has described in detail very responsible disinfection precautions she takes and I have found her trustworthy and thorough. Still, it's scary to have someone come into my home now, who also is in and out of other homes. I've booked her but am angry with myself for being so unfit that cleaning my own little house by myself is daunting (bending reaching lifting vacuuming) yet the grit the general decline is depressing.

I'm wondering if I should cancel and wait. The virus is increasing here, though nothing like a large city.

Sigh,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship
« Reply #402 on: May 09, 2020, 12:03:13 PM »
I just sent this to M, who responded both that "I'm working on it" and that "we all do it when we're enthusiastic about something or excited about the person we're talking to..." I responded that I've done it too but "everybody does it" might not be the deepest answer, and awareness never hurts. We'll see.

Dear Prudence,

My husband is an interrupter. He talks over me constantly, both when we are having a normal conversation and when we argue. I never feel like I can get my thoughts out. This has been going on for years, and I’m at my wits’ end. I feel like giving up. I feel disrespected. I’ve told him how it bothers me and how I feel unheard. I’ve even tried talking through his interruptions. Nothing works. I think he does it to silence me, but he argues that I have sometimes interrupted him in the past, so his isn’t any worse? I feel like I’d have to be perfect for him to even try. What should I do?

—Interrupting Husband

This situation sounds exhausting, interminable, and like a profound barrier to intimacy, trust, respect, and love—all the things that make a lifelong partnership desirable. Your husband is completely locked into his position and is attempting to use your request as a wedge to make demands of his own, rather than trying to meet you halfway. You do not need to spend another five or 10 or 20 years trying to argue with him about whether he’s disrespecting you. You can take him at his word when he says he’s not going to stop interrupting you, that he thinks you’re wrong to be upset by it, and that you don’t deserve to participate fully in everyday conversation because once on May 15, 2003, you cut him off when he was trying to give you directions to a friend’s birthday party. So many relationship problems can be worked out as both parties are willing—even if that willingness is small, or begrudging, or half-hearted—to call it a problem. But your husband is determined to maintain his position—that he doesn’t really interrupt you, or it’s not that bad, or you do it too—no matter how many times you’ve tried to ask and explain and plead and compromise. You can’t substitute for a lack of interest in changing on his part. You have my permission to give up, if that’s what you choose, and acknowledge that your marriage to this man is over in all but name. I think it will feel like a profound relief.


I also told M I didn't think he's responded like this husband, but wanted him to understand how it felt to that wife, and what the columnist said. I'm not thrilled with his "we all do it" response but told him I look forward to working on this with our joint T. And I am. It's the singlemost important obstacle we have, imo.

Not depressed about it, glad I sent it to him. We'll see how it goes...I think he deflected but also he shows up for therapy and behaves as though he's engaged.

hugs
Hops



"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship
« Reply #403 on: May 09, 2020, 12:07:40 PM »
Thanks, CB, for the good examples of how to approach cleaning. An obstacle for me that's as big as the body issues is mental. My inertness. My flabby sedentaritude. I'm fighting that in fits and starts, but sense you've been consistently adult in your approach to taking care of home. That's a huge challenge for me I'm deliberatly working on in my own therapy.

As to painting, you're right! I don't quite know if I should wait for M to ask, what would you need to stay here? Or just bring it up myself. (As I don't expect him to ask, though he might well cooperate if I bring it up.)

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship
« Reply #404 on: May 09, 2020, 02:48:56 PM »
Quote
....and I had an oatmeal pan on the stove with a melted spatula in it. She looked at me and said: oh. You don't give that kind of impression.

((((CB))))) Thank you for a Laugh Out Loud! Boy are THOSE precious these days.

Yup, from one clutterholic to another. You get it.

I will need an ottoman the size of my piano, but your post was verrrrry consoling.

:) :) :)

love
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."