Author Topic: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves  (Read 26647 times)

Twoapenny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3566
  • Becoming
Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #135 on: July 25, 2019, 01:42:46 AM »
The emotional struggle is real. With both the friend situation and the mum situation.

Picnic sounds kinda pleasant.

Thanks, G, it's amazing how hard emotional stuff can be!  Really pulls us down sometimes.  I'm so grateful I've got you guys :)

The picnic was nice, no drama :)  That's what I like about this group, there's no theatrics, just people pulling together during a tough time.  I keep saying it's a mum group but there are a few dads there as well and a couple of new ones were there yesterday.  I also discovered that there's a disabled swing at the park; I'm not sure if son would still want to do that but he used to love being in a swing so it's something else to suggest to him over the summer :)  The osteopath worked a miracle with my jaw as well; she said it had seized up which is why my headaches have been so bad.  So all good in the end.

Twoapenny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3566
  • Becoming
Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #136 on: July 25, 2019, 01:54:56 AM »
I hope the rest of your day went well, Tupp.
Sounded like some good getting out.

About the guilt over friends who are less supportive than you need. Instead of framing it to yourself that you are "discarding" them, could you instead try thinking about them with gratitude without the guilt? More like privately "thanking and releasing them" (from your expectations)? IOW, you can stop bothering about as much contact, but leave the angst over it behind. You can love yourself AND old but ineffective friends. Just by thinking of them peacefully; loving them doesn't mean staying locked in a harmful painful yearning. You can love people without being much in touch. Maybe you feel gratitude for times when it did click well and meet mutual needs, and "releasing them" from keeping up with your present self. You have grown and changed and are seeking more. And that's okay and it's normal and LOADS of people evolve through relationships that way throughout life.

It doesn't make you an N or a "discarder" of people. Friendship is an active thing, if it's satisfying. And when it becomes clear it's not and can't be...it's okay to think of it as a relationship that worked once, but isn't active in your life now. With peace.

As to the Mom guilt, you do have compassion for her, but your compassion for your own hurt girl-self, who was so badly injured by her behavior, plus the monster's, has got to take priority. Perhaps if monster dies first, you'll be able to have some visits and closure with her. Even if it doesn't work out that way, you'll still find your way to that peace. You've punished yourself enough. And your Mom's age and declining health is sad for her as for every old person, but it comes to every single one of us and is a natural if poignant part of life.

You know you can't change that. But perhaps as you continue your deep work on self-healing and finding ways to carry on, you will somehow connect with the little seed of mothering in yourself that did not grow in her. It's not present in her body and her mind as she lives now, but mothering is still in you, and in the world around you. You can find it for yourself as so many have to do, and in doing that, I believe you will find peace about her. (She will find her own comforts as life winds down, because the seeds of that are in her, too. It's not on you to fix it for her, though in an ideal universe, of course you'd like to.)

Hugs
Hops

Hops, thank you for that very sensible advice, I am going to try that and see if I can reframe it :)  It does make sense to think of it that way, I will have to practise flipping it around and being grateful for what was good - and there have been lots of good things - and not berating myself about it not being enough any more.  It's funny how changes just don't feel smooth a lot of the time.  It would be so much easier if changing and growing felt nice :)  Lol

Yes, the mum thing, I know, I do get it on a practical/sensible level, I just feel that the bond that should be there kind of resonates even though it isn't, if that makes sense?  I'm aware that I'd never find closure through her; just from conversations she has with my sister it's clear there's been absolutely no change, her narrative is the same as ever and I can't see that ever changing, and maybe there would be no closure for me either way - maybe it's just not something we can close?   I don't know, I see old people around, living alone, only seeing the check out lady in the supermarket or the doctor from time to time and it breaks my heart.  I do what I can but individual people can only do so much.  It's a societal thing, so much focus on work and money means people aren't useful once they're out of employment and if they haven't got a good circle of people who love them they're kind of buggered from that point on.  I'm aware that my mum would be a lot nicer to me if I wasn't her daughter which is an odd turn of events.  But yes, I will carry on working on myself and my own healing and will content myself with talking to old ladies at the bus stop and offering to carry their shopping (and a funny story; I was in a shop yesterday when an elderly chap dropped his keys.  I said "oh let me get those for you" and bent down to pick them up and my back went and I couldn't get back up - he ended up having to help me :)  Note to self; I'm heading a bit towards that phase as well.  Osteo has sorted my back (I was on my way to see her) so all good now :) ).

Thanks Hopsie, I will concentrate on gratitude and release and let you know how it goes :) xx

Meh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2721
Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #137 on: July 25, 2019, 04:02:12 AM »
and not berating myself about it not being enough any more

Same. Now I'm thinking about it the self berating part.

lighter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8329
Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #138 on: July 25, 2019, 12:46:36 PM »
Tupp:

Thank goodness the osteo helped with your jaw.  You're asking for help,  and getting it.  So important to do that, IME.  Did they say what's going on that your jaw is locking up?

Lighter


Twoapenny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3566
  • Becoming
Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #139 on: July 25, 2019, 01:25:47 PM »
and not berating myself about it not being enough any more

Same. Now I'm thinking about it the self berating part.

I know, we create more work for ourselves, I think?  I'm so used to not making any demands on anyone, ever, that something as simple as saying, yep, I want more than this person can give me feels wrong.  And of course it isn't, wanting friendships that run roughly fifty/fifty with people who understand the situation I'm in and who want to keep in regular contact isn't a big ask of anyone (in fact it sounds like minimum requirement in a friend!).  Just time to re-evaluate and shift gears, I think :) xx

Twoapenny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3566
  • Becoming
Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #140 on: July 25, 2019, 01:31:04 PM »
Tupp:

Thank goodness the osteo helped with your jaw.  You're asking for help,  and getting it.  So important to do that, IME.  Did they say what's going on that your jaw is locking up?

Lighter

She's great, Lighter, really lovely lady and knows our previous osteopath from where we lived before :)  She surfs as well so has been giving us tips on where to try body boarding, she's so sweet.  She says it's stress and that we all have an area that's affected by stress and that will manifest in different ways depending on our individual circumstances.  She said neck and shoulders is really common and that all affects the jaw as well; partly it's postural (son holding my arm when we walk, lugging bags on one side and son on the other, computer time, slouching and so on) but mostly stress and tension.  I have to say that as the day's gone on I feel like I've swallowed a load of valium; so much has just melted away and I had a really nice nap this afternoon so it's definitely let a lot of stuff go.  I found a good yoga routine on YouTube that focuses on the jaw so I'm going to try to add that to my routine to keep it supple, plus she showed me a couple of simple things to do through the day to try to keep it a bit less tight.  The difference is amazing - any my headache has finally gone!  Lol xx

Meh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2721
Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #141 on: July 25, 2019, 03:01:18 PM »
That's awesome. Is it the lions pose thing that you do for your jaw where you stick your tongue out?

I feel inspired after reading your post to do something body positive like yoga.

« Last Edit: July 25, 2019, 03:10:34 PM by Garbanzo »

Meh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2721
Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #142 on: July 26, 2019, 01:31:38 AM »
Today I was texting a coworker friend and then the text turned into a phone call she talked to me for 30 mins about a single subject science fiction fantasy thing that was sort of teenager-esque. She is in her 30's. I listened but she didn't take a gasp. I asked her a few questions but after about 15 mins it felt like it was more detail than I could handle about something that wasn't interesting to me. I just listened but I thought about you Two while this was happening. I stay friends with her just because I feel like it's good to have any friends even if they are someone odd-minded as opposed to like-minded. But sometimes I wonder what friendships should be like. Is it enough to be human or do we have to have a lot in common. Also that she could ramble on for so long I don't think she cares if I'm even listening or not. If I wanted to end it all I would need to do is not put any effort in. I can talk about myself and sometimes she does have something to add. Still sometimes I wonder.

Meh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2721
Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #143 on: July 26, 2019, 09:05:03 PM »
Sometimes I wonder if it always requires or feels like more than 100% contribution. A friend stated we should do a picnic couple months ago and then said nothing more about it. Next week we are going to be in the same class, so I asked her the where when and hows. Was asking her how she wants to plan the food and she pretty much only said "well picnics are pretty casual".  Yes I KNOW that by definition they always are casual BUT they require more planning than going to a restaraunt where you show up and sit down and do nothing else. still we all have to figure out something to bring because it's going to be around dinner time. Anyhow it kinda sounds like she doesn't want to bring anything at all. Shrug. It was her idea. So I started thinking of bringing a lot of stuff but it was her idea!!!  There are other people coming so I will just coordinate with the others. But yeah I've been texting everybody to see if they are avail. trying to google where to have it because I don't live in that area. It's fine it's not a big deal and I like rallying the troops/harassing everybody into mutual understandings. BUT still part of the fun of a picnic is planning it and it's not a picnic without park food. It took a whole day of texting but finally 5/6 people are all going to show up at the same place at the same time. At least it's something. I wouldn't call any of them close friends.

Also when I was out today I overheard two women talking at Starbucks, they didn't know each other. One of them looked uninterested in what the other was saying. I think they met up just to meet new people, not sure if they met online or what. I should have just walked over there lol and joined them but nooooooo. But talk about proactive.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2019, 01:11:55 AM by Garbanzo »

Twoapenny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3566
  • Becoming
Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #144 on: July 27, 2019, 05:01:08 AM »
G, I could have written both of those posts, this is exactly what I'm struggling with at the minute!  One of the friends I'm distancing myself from can talk for an hour without drawing breath, usually about someone else's drama.  I will willingly listen endlessly to someone who is in an impossible situation and just needs to vent - bereavement, diagnosis of something hideous, husband just announced he's been having an affair for ten years and he's leaving - I understand that there are times when listening is all you can do.  But, friends that talk only about something that interests them, for whatever reason - it's just tiring.  And interestingly, the friend that talks about herself all the time is the same one that suggested going swimming (which I hate) and who this week called wanting to meet up that day (three hours notice) and who then kept suggesting I fit her in when I said no.  I suppose it stands to reason if most of the conversations you have only involve them then they won't know much about the other person.  And yes, lots of my friendships stopped once I stopped making an effort.  There are many people who I didn't call for six months when my son first got ill, just because there was so much else going on I didn't even think about ringing people for a chat.  It was only after six months I started to notice that not one of those people had called me in that time - I hadn't rung, so nothing else ever happened.  So yes, perfectly possible to shed friends simply by not calling them (although also a good way to find out who your real mates are because they are the ones that phone - it's just a shock to the system if you find out it's no-one!  I was lucky; one kept ringing and she has kept in touch with me weekly for nearly twenty years now, I am so lucky to have her).

And yes, organising other people is like herding cats!  I've no idea how so many people manage with no idea what they're doing from one day to the next and constantly thinking on their feet and having to keep adapting each day - I find it exhausting.  Phoning, texting, Facebook, then chasing again because tickets need to be booked, then organising how to get there - have stopped doing it now!  Just too much hassle, especially when everyone says they want to come but then no-one comes back with a date or a time.  And group food events like a picnic do need a bit of organising re who does what because otherwise everyone turns up with the same stuff and a lot of it gets wasted.  And the meet with the other mums this week was a good example of that; we were meeting for a picnic and I thought (as did many others) that we were bringing our own individual food.  Several had been told it was a group food thing so had bought stuff for everyone and ended up taking loads of it home.  So yes, planning is required!  Lol

I'm curious about the Starbucks ladies as well now, G, I'd have liked to know what the circumstances were.  Lol, very proactive if they're meeting up unknown to see about becoming friends.  Or maybe a date?

I've not been doing Lion's Pose with this particular yoga sequence but I honestly feel like I've taken Valium after I do it, it's releasing so much from my jaw.  Have stuck the link below in case you want to have a look :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbItEmN16jw

xx

lighter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8329
Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #145 on: July 27, 2019, 08:24:21 AM »
Thanks, Tupp.  My youngest dd has trouble with her jaw.  I'll share this with her: )

Lighter

Twoapenny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3566
  • Becoming
Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #146 on: July 27, 2019, 09:30:09 AM »
Thanks, Tupp.  My youngest dd has trouble with her jaw.  I'll share this with her: )

Lighter

I'm finding it really helpful, Lighter, so much so that I keep having to go and have a nap after I've done it, it seems to flood tension out of me.  I'm still focusing really hard on trying to get as destressed as possible over the summer break so that next year isn't the stressful nightmare that this year has been.  Feels odd to have to work at not being stressed, though, bit of an oxymoron!  But I'm sticking with it.  It's half two in the afternoon and I'm still not dressed - I've pottered about at home, sorted out food, done yoga, meditated, updated on here, caught up on emails, had a chat with a friend on the phone.  It feels wrong to me not to just rush rush rush but I'm forcing myself not to - I want not rushing to be my new default setting.  We're going to the beach tonight and I am actually going to make an effort to wear something nice.  I never bother, it always feels like too much hassle and I think there's no point to it but I am experimenting with changing my look to see if that makes anything else change :)  So an effort will be made :)  We'll see how it goes lol xx

lighter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8329
Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #147 on: July 27, 2019, 10:40:17 AM »
I'm curious how making an effort with appearances works out this evening, Tupp.   

I can say this about that... when going through the airports I always make an effort.  People treat me different.  Even if I forget I've taken that time, people treat me better, in general.   I usually pick security lines manned by men, out of habit.   In the big city, women were often cruel in the workplace, school, and social situations.  That's really sad, but we're set up to compete, not support each other,  aren't we?   

I don't have to worry about that when I'm not making an effort with appearances.  There's a lovely feeling of being invisible when I throw on comfy clothing, hair in a bun, sunglasses, no makeup. 


have fun, and stay in observer mode: )  I hope you feel seen, and lovely in whatever you wear.


Lighter






Twoapenny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3566
  • Becoming
Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #148 on: July 27, 2019, 04:25:10 PM »
I'm curious how making an effort with appearances works out this evening, Tupp.   

I can say this about that... when going through the airports I always make an effort.  People treat me different.  Even if I forget I've taken that time, people treat me better, in general.   I usually pick security lines manned by men, out of habit.   In the big city, women were often cruel in the workplace, school, and social situations.  That's really sad, but we're set up to compete, not support each other,  aren't we?   

I don't have to worry about that when I'm not making an effort with appearances.  There's a lovely feeling of being invisible when I throw on comfy clothing, hair in a bun, sunglasses, no makeup. 


have fun, and stay in observer mode: )  I hope you feel seen, and lovely in whatever you wear.


Lighter

Lighter, it was very odd!  I just wore a dress and a bit of lip gloss (usually would wear shorts and T shirt and no make up) and people were friendlier!  I keep my head shaved so it did occur to me that perhaps if I'm in casual or blokey clothes I look a bit aggressive?  And maybe less so with a dress and a bit of make up on?  It was funny, I really hadn't expected it to affect anyone else, it was more just about me trying to shake myself up a bit but I'm going to try it again tomorrow and see what happens! xx

Hopalong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13462
Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #149 on: July 27, 2019, 05:45:24 PM »
Woo HOO, Tupp!

After all these years we find out you shave your head?

You DEFINITELY do not follow the madding crowd.

More awe...and so glad you had a good time!

Hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."