Author Topic: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves  (Read 26126 times)

Hopalong

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Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #165 on: August 02, 2019, 12:43:01 PM »
I'm so sorry, (((((Tupp)))))).

My D did the same during her particular bipolar darkness at one point.

I think it' was her way of saying to the world, I have pain and I am overwhelmed and I am vulnerable. SEE ME.

Reminds me of the absolutely brilliant standup comedienne, Hannah Gadsby.
I admire her almost more than anyone I can think of in show biz.

She "broke" comedy, blasted through the third wall, and it was very much like watching a woman shave her head, in this culture.

Bravo you. I'm sorry there's regret (thank heaven hair grows). But I totally get the appeal. It occured to me about a year ago, briefly. When I began losing my hair, I asked myself...would I be happier if I just got rid of all of it?

Only reason I didn't was the necessity for maintenance. Waaay too lazy.

I know you are gorgeous, hair or no hair.

Please keep posting, dear Tupp.

love to you,
Hops

"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #166 on: August 02, 2019, 04:27:00 PM »
Tupp:

There are degrees to breaking down, and understanding what happened later on, IME.

Having a way to chart our days,
maybe gage physical pain from 1-10
dread 1-10
fear 1-10
happiness 1-10
 Something we can get in a glance.

A place for notes.... "hired sketchy tree guys bc they knocked on the door. and looking up sent me into panic mode.....  right before going out of the country, leaving a huge mess in the yard I still haven't dealt with...." that kind of thing.   I honestly feel this is such an out of character move for me... it's like shaving my head.  It's like trees exploded all over the moss.  There's holes that are 2 feet deep, and moss dragged into the leaves, and huge divets, and ruts.... oh my.  I have to get up all the saw dust.  I'm honestly shocked at that decision.  I HAVE TREES I NEED TO MOVE BY SECTIONS, and no idea where I'll move them. 

You know what.... like your hair, I know the situation will resolve, so no use worrying about it.  We do what we can, then let go of the outcome.

I've said that.  Given that advice.  Taken that advice, but this is the first time I've understood that advice, and know why it's a better strategy than the anxiety/racing mind syndrome of anticipating problems, which is really hard to live with, IME.  It's also my main coping strategy, if I'm being honest.  Having one week of consistently NOT doing that has changed how I see my life, and world.

It's a longer respite, and it helps things stick, IME.

Having little moments, here and there, was all I could manage before, and it likely kept me from going over many edges, or at least brought me back, which is a lot when we're stuggling, IME.

I want something better.

I want to be OK most of the time, and not suffer more than once over the things I have on my plate.

If I have a problem, I look at my resources, healthy boundaries, logical consequences, list the things I have to do in order to get the best possible outcome, DO what I can (with compassion, and the calm tapping and breathing can help bring) then release the outcome, and KNOW there's nothing else I could do to bring about a better outcome. 

Wishing and worrying doesn't change anything, so I'm ready to let them go in the name of more peace in my life.

Drat, this is your thread.  I didn't mean to post so long on your thread.  Sorry, (((Tupp)))

::straightening Tupp's hat::

We're going to be OK: )

Lighter

 

Twoapenny

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Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #167 on: August 03, 2019, 04:27:03 AM »
I'm so sorry, (((((Tupp)))))).

My D did the same during her particular bipolar darkness at one point.

I think it' was her way of saying to the world, I have pain and I am overwhelmed and I am vulnerable. SEE ME.

Reminds me of the absolutely brilliant standup comedienne, Hannah Gadsby.
I admire her almost more than anyone I can think of in show biz.

She "broke" comedy, blasted through the third wall, and it was very much like watching a woman shave her head, in this culture.

Bravo you. I'm sorry there's regret (thank heaven hair grows). But I totally get the appeal. It occured to me about a year ago, briefly. When I began losing my hair, I asked myself...would I be happier if I just got rid of all of it?

Only reason I didn't was the necessity for maintenance. Waaay too lazy.

I know you are gorgeous, hair or no hair.

Please keep posting, dear Tupp.

love to you,
Hops

Thanks, Hops.  I'm sorry that you've had this with your D as well.  I have been thinking this morning (or for the last few days, more specifically, but it felt clearer this morning), that I think I feel at the moment that I've not got any personal happiness in my life - and I feel like I haven't got any more ways to try to get it now?  I'm thinking about what it means for me.  I do love to feel wanted - not in a needy way, but when someone phones because they just want to talk to you.  Not about themselves, but you, as a person.  When they want to know what you think and feel for no reason other than they like that and they have that sort of connection with you.  For me that's different to company - I can get company all day, every day, but I find it tiring and I don't always enjoy it.  But I do love deep connections and long, rambling conversations and I love those chats you can have with someone you're really close to because they 'get' what you're saying without you needing to explain it.  I love those reminiscing sort of chats where you say, "do you remember that time we went to .................." and you're both laughing without saying anything else because you know the incident and what happened and it's just that shared memory, without anyone needing to explain it.  I really miss that.

Work is important to me, or paid work at least.  I'm not materialistic but the constant financial pressure is exhausting.  There are flats available to rent near where we are now, bigger than our current house and cheaper, but they don't allow tenants on housing benefit.  That frustrates me - I pay the rent here even though it's more but I'm not judged on my reality - I'm judged by the source of my income.  That makes me unhappy.

I've felt for years that I needed to prove everyone wrong and that I would eventually end up with an amazing life and I could shout, "Ha ha!  Look at me now!  Fuckface!".  Lol.  And yes, I know it could still happen but I'm out of ideas for ways to try and make life happier now.  I feel it's more about finding ways to cope with it and I find that quite depressing.

I can sort a care plan out for son, get him enrolled in different things, get carers in place - but none of that will change other people and I think that's my big sticking point - meeting people who are my 'thing', getting to know them, building the friendship, testing it with a trying time (and it passing the test) - that's a lot of work and I feel like I fall at the first hurdle with a lot of people.

So yes, I kind of think the head shaving thing may have been a real, "okay, there's nothing else I can do now.  Where do I go from here?"  sort of a moment (as well as a kind of temporary insanity - it was like watching someone else do it.  Very odd).

But - I have you guys.  I have two very close, real life friends, several good acquaintances and I am meeting potential new friends.  I can focus on getting my home as comfortable as possible, getting my finances back in order, sorting out some paid work that son can be involved in in some way.  I have things I can focus on so I just need to keep moving forward, resting when needed, reminding myself that I don't need to solve all the problems of the world every day.  And I have a nice scarf to wear on my head now and it will only take a couple of months to grow back.  I might even grow it long again!  I've got plenty of hot water for a nice bath and I'm going to carry on with trying to make a bit of an effort with my appearance.  Son and I are going to walk into town later (I can take his wheelchair in case he gets tired as it's a flat pedestrian path all the way into town so it's easy to push).  And my friend is coming down for her holiday next week so I can spend lots of time with her and her lovely family and I know that will make me feel a lot better.

Thank you to all of you for caring so much, it really does mean a lot to me xx xx

Twoapenny

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Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #168 on: August 03, 2019, 04:34:33 AM »
Tupp:

There are degrees to breaking down, and understanding what happened later on, IME.

Having a way to chart our days,
maybe gage physical pain from 1-10
dread 1-10
fear 1-10
happiness 1-10
 Something we can get in a glance.

A place for notes.... "hired sketchy tree guys bc they knocked on the door. and looking up sent me into panic mode.....  right before going out of the country, leaving a huge mess in the yard I still haven't dealt with...." that kind of thing.   I honestly feel this is such an out of character move for me... it's like shaving my head.  It's like trees exploded all over the moss.  There's holes that are 2 feet deep, and moss dragged into the leaves, and huge divets, and ruts.... oh my.  I have to get up all the saw dust.  I'm honestly shocked at that decision.  I HAVE TREES I NEED TO MOVE BY SECTIONS, and no idea where I'll move them. 

You know what.... like your hair, I know the situation will resolve, so no use worrying about it.  We do what we can, then let go of the outcome.

I've said that.  Given that advice.  Taken that advice, but this is the first time I've understood that advice, and know why it's a better strategy than the anxiety/racing mind syndrome of anticipating problems, which is really hard to live with, IME.  It's also my main coping strategy, if I'm being honest.  Having one week of consistently NOT doing that has changed how I see my life, and world.

It's a longer respite, and it helps things stick, IME.

Having little moments, here and there, was all I could manage before, and it likely kept me from going over many edges, or at least brought me back, which is a lot when we're stuggling, IME.

I want something better.

I want to be OK most of the time, and not suffer more than once over the things I have on my plate.

If I have a problem, I look at my resources, healthy boundaries, logical consequences, list the things I have to do in order to get the best possible outcome, DO what I can (with compassion, and the calm tapping and breathing can help bring) then release the outcome, and KNOW there's nothing else I could do to bring about a better outcome. 

Wishing and worrying doesn't change anything, so I'm ready to let them go in the name of more peace in my life.

Drat, this is your thread.  I didn't mean to post so long on your thread.  Sorry, (((Tupp)))

::straightening Tupp's hat::

We're going to be OK: )

Lighter

 

Nothing to apologise for, Lighter, it's a very apt post :)  And your tree situation sounds like a nightmare.  Is this at your regular house or at the beach house?  You have so much going on at both places, it's a real nightmare to deal with.  And I think it's a good example of stress making us make bad decisions.  Panic makes us do odd things, and I think it's odd how panic doesn't always feel like panic?  Decisions can seem perfectly rational at the time but once we calm down they're very out of character.  I remember when my son was small and we had nowhere to live.  I couldn't raise the money for a deposit on even a small flat so we ended up living in one room in a shared house for seven months until I'd saved enough to move somewhere bigger.  It was only months later that I realised that I could have asked ten friends to lend me £100.  I knew ten people that would have done that, and it would have been enough for us to get a flat.  I could have paid them back reasonably quickly and saved myself a lot of hassle and unpleasantness.  But in my stress and panic I just didn't think of it, even though it was an obvious solution.  So I think it can affect our brain waves and our decision making processes and I hope you get the mess sorted out soon!  I hope it isn't too bad to get sorted again xx xx

Twoapenny

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Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #169 on: August 03, 2019, 04:42:45 AM »
Tupp,

Two of my kids shaved their heads when they had an emotional crisis--something internal, nothing external at least in the immediate sense. One was a son, and one was a daughter. Interestingly, both changed their first names as well. I've never completely understood why shaving their heads seemed to be what they needed to do, but it didnt bother me at all (I think the name change did more--names are such gifts from a mother to a child IMO). I had more of a sense that they, like you, felt a little bewildered themselves about why they did it.

Both grew out and were none the worst--but I do wonder now that you have described your own situation, what catharsis must take place to rid yourself so completely of something so personal.  I suspect its a good thing. I hope if you slowly get insight into what it has done for you that you will share it here. I'm glad you have a safe place to talk about it and not feel "all eyes on you"!

CB

CB, It's interesting to me how many other people have done the same thing!  Getting a new haircut is very common when a relationship ends; maybe shaving our heads is more about our relationships with ourselves?  The name change thing is interesting as well; I did look very seriously in to changing my name completely (first and last name) although for me that was more to do with my mum not being able to find me again because of the harassment.  I eventually decided against it because my surname's all I've got left of my dad and I do like my name!  But I know someone else who changed her first name and used her middle name instead because she preferred it more.  I do remember a funny story about someone I used to know who had no name for the first month of her life because her mum and dad couldn't agree on one.  Eventually they tossed a coin - dad won.  So his choice was first name, mum's second.  And when she got older she didn't like any of them and picked a new one for herself.  It's an odd situation to find yourself in, I think.  I wouldn't like it if my son wanted to change his name - like you say, you put a lot of thought in to it and it's what you choose for them.  I'd like to think he'll carry on liking it.

There is some sort of catharsis, I think.  I do feel like it's snapped me out of the fog I've been in for quite a while now.  I suppose it's like tangible proof that things aren't alright?  And you can see it, very easily, all the time.  So it's a constant reminder.  But I do feel calmer now (and embarrassed!).  I'm just so very tired of having to keep going, keep keeping on, and of feeling let down by friends who, when I can't go on any longer, just go off to do something more interesting!  I do need to focus the good people I do have in my life rather than the ones who haven't been great.  But it does feel like you're being kicked when you're down.  Anyway - I have listed all the positives on my reply to Hops so I won't repeat it all and bore everybody.  But I do appreciate you all very much xx xx

Twoapenny

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Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #170 on: August 03, 2019, 05:46:01 AM »
And in the spirit of positivity I have emailed the local Forest School; they run weekly well being sessions for carers and people with mental health difficulties and they also do sessions for adults with learning disabilities so that might be suitable for son next year.  I can check it out while I'm there and I think the wellbeing sessions would help me so I've asked if I can go along :)  I've also put a note in my diary to go to the next couple of meetings with the local eco group and I've got my weekly meet ups with the nice mums.  I think later on today I'll sit down and write myself some self help checklists for different situations - feeling overwhelmed, feeling anxious, panic, fear, exhaustion.  I have got things that help me in all of those situations but I find when I'm in it everything goes out of my mind and I can't think straight.  So perhaps if I write myself some lists and stick them on the wall in my room when something happens I can work through my list (me and lists!  Where would I be without my lists!) and that might get me out of it again quicker.

Twoapenny

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Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #171 on: August 04, 2019, 03:11:32 AM »
Tupp,
I didn't question my kids when they shaved their heads so you are giving me some insight into their possible thought processes. The bewilderment you describe is what I noticed, but I left it alone. My kids have been remarkably non-rebellious in general and I thought it was a small thing to shave one's head!

I identify the sense of being cut adrift that you expressed. I have felt it acutely since I moved back to the city almost 5 years ago. My kids also have required care far into adulthood, and there was just this sense that the day to day pressure was never-ending.  I have moved too often in the last 12 years to sustain many (any) friendships--all of my energy was working, keeping my family above water and,until a few years ago,  my relationship with M. He was a great encouragement in all that, until he wasn't. That relationship breaking up was more than the loss of a romance, I think, but also a friendship.

So, like you, I find that I dont see a clear path forward. I have been rather desperate in some of the darker days, but I have begun to make peace with it just out of exhaustion, probably!  I feel as though I have expended so much energy just making life work, I can't imagine building a new friendship. It would be wonderful to have that "remember when" that you talk about, without there being pain attached to it. But failing that, I am okay with peace too--rather solitary peace as it is.

Do you think that a small part time job would help any for you? Sometimes I think that friendships are made these days only with work mates. My work mates are all much younger than I am, so that's not going to happen in my case. I dont know your situation whether that's even a possibility for you. I thought I would retire as soon as I could possibly, and now I find that I am worried that I would not have even the social outlets I have now, if I did. So, for me, employment has been a bit of a stabilizer.

I see myself in so much of what you have expressed here. I wish I could encourage you more, but perhaps we will muddle through together.

CB

Oh CB, so much of what you wrote resonated with me!  The day to day pressures are huge, although largely invisible, which I think is what causes my frustration with other people not 'getting' it.  With us, a lot of the care is around avoiding doing things that are stressful or tiring - which for my son is pretty much anything that involves leaving his room.  So the planning to involved in getting (a) the day to day necessities done and then (b) trying to keep him engaged in a range of interests, active, living healthily and so on, is enormous and I can't do spontaneous or spur of the moment.  Similarly I'm constantly exhausted now so I'm at a stage where, once what needs to be done is done, I really need to just sit and rest - which other people don't seem to be able to understand.  So we get invited to things that we can't go to (and it is nice to be invited, even if we can't go) but I find very few people are willing to make the effort to talk on the phone regularly or come over.  So most weeks I see my nice mums at the group for an hour or so and that's it for the week.  I've one friend who always catches up by phone at the weekends so it probably totals about two hours of conversation a week, leaving me alone for the other 166 and I do find it's just too much.  I think I've got to the point now where isolated and alone is so normal for me that being around other people is actually quite stressful.  I find it hard to relate to other people now - their lives of meeting up with family, planing evenings out, going on holiday, attending courses, getting promotions, watching their kids go through college, Uni and then into the big wide world is alien to me and I find it as difficult to relate to them as they do to me.  I find that if I do explain how I feel to someone or explain the situation to them that I generally get suggestions as to what I can do about the problem - other people don't seem to think it's down to them to pick the phone up occasionally or come over one evening.  For me other people making an effort is what would make the difference - and of course I can't make anyone do that.  But - I have got you guys, and I have got a couple of amazing friends so that's what I'm trying to focus on now :)

Part time work isn't an option at the minute because of son's care needs and the difficulties of getting him looked after but once all the education battles are sorted out and finalised I do want to look into opening a community shop.  I don't know if you have them in the States but they're starting to pop up here.  They're not for profit co-operatives, usually selling healthy, environmentally friendly products, with any profits made being spent on courses and workshops for local people to attend.  I'd like to see if I can set something like that up as son would be able to come with me if care was a problem, and I'd like to see if I can set up a community room alongside it that runs quiet, sedentary classes and workshops for anyone who struggles to cope with the constant noise and rushing about that society seems to be now.  I find that everything set up for adults with learning disabilities is either very active and/or very noisy - neither of which son can cope with for long, which is why we have so many problems.  So I'd like to set up quieter pursuits - photography, computer training, short film making, book club, poetry workshop, Scrabble competition, that sort of thing - aimed to cater for people with learning disabilities but open to anyone else who finds they need a bit of support and understanding.  I'd really love to just have a quiet space that people can drop in to, just to sit and read, play a game of cards, have a quiet chat or just stare into space - no phones, no background music, no computer games or coffee machines hissing and whirring - just nice and quiet :)

That's my aim once I get son's personal stuff sorted.  I have always felt that the support we need just isn't there so I need to find a way to provide it for him, I think, but without it being just on my shoulders.  So if I can set up some sort of shop with a few courses and workshops running on the side I think that will be a good step in the right direction.

I think muddling through is the way forward, CB!  I do think that, as you say, you put so much energy into just getting through the day that you really do need other people to make a bit more of an effort to reach out, but it doesn't seem to happen often.  I don't know what the answer is.  I think our society is so focused on making money and then spending that money in 'fun' ways that it doesn't leave a lot of time or energy for people.  Which I think is sad.  We can only muddle through.  I hope that some companionship, at least, comes out of your work relationships.  That's why this board is so amazing, it gives us a chance to connect in a way that a lot of us can't with the outside world :) xx xx

Twoapenny

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Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #172 on: August 04, 2019, 05:01:42 AM »
It occurred to me after writing all of that that I suppose we're all just looking for what we want.  Friends who are looking for people to go out with and do things with seek that, those of us who have to stay in and want people to visit seek that.  I guess it's about making deep enough connections with people that they're willing to put the time in - and does that mostly come from romantic relationships?  I guess single women will want to be out more looking to meet someone special and coupled up women will be spending their time with their love.  So I guess being single and having to stay at home isn't a great combination.  But I have good connections with you guys, I'm trying very hard to focus on my friends who do stay in touch and I enjoy the mum group.  Hopefully I can join this forest wellbeing group and at least learn some useful skills and be outdoors more, and I'm going to make the effort to get along to the eco group as often as I can.  So perhaps social get togethers that at the very least aren't draining and perhaps more will come from that.

lighter

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Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #173 on: August 04, 2019, 11:59:42 AM »
The tree situation isn't a real nightmare, Tupp. It's a decision I made, and I'll deal with it.  Same as your hair.  It'll grow back, and you'll have impressions about the decision, your hair as it grows, and how you keep it going forward.  Not good or bad, just information. 

I know I learned a lot about myself.  I think about it as I move through the clean up, and try to hold zero judgment around it. 

I did it bc looking UP, at that moment with a tree guy pointing out dangerous branches/trees, made me feel unsafe.  Big dead branches, over my children's heads as they walk in the yard, and sleep in their bedrooms. 

I'd just decided to go to Toronto for a funeral after hearing something about the final moments of the beloved person's life dealing with cancer, and that was a huge stress for me. 

 I see why I did it.  I understand I KNEW better as I moved through the decision making process, but went ahead anyway.  Very clearly my decision making process was hijacked, and that's information I'll benefit from going forward.   

We'll be OK, Tupp. 



Lighter

 


Twoapenny

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Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #174 on: August 05, 2019, 02:16:03 AM »
The tree situation isn't a real nightmare, Tupp. It's a decision I made, and I'll deal with it.  Same as your hair.  It'll grow back, and you'll have impressions about the decision, your hair as it grows, and how you keep it going forward.  Not good or bad, just information. 

I know I learned a lot about myself.  I think about it as I move through the clean up, and try to hold zero judgment around it. 

I did it bc looking UP, at that moment with a tree guy pointing out dangerous branches/trees, made me feel unsafe.  Big dead branches, over my children's heads as they walk in the yard, and sleep in their bedrooms. 

I'd just decided to go to Toronto for a funeral after hearing something about the final moments of the beloved person's life dealing with cancer, and that was a huge stress for me. 

 I see why I did it.  I understand I KNEW better as I moved through the decision making process, but went ahead anyway.  Very clearly my decision making process was hijacked, and that's information I'll benefit from going forward.   

We'll be OK, Tupp. 



Lighter

Sorry that you've lost someone close, Lighter, yes, that sort of news can make us do and say all sorts of things that we don't want to do or say.  My hair is already looking less hideous - I'll be wearing the scarf for a while (I quite like it, actually) but it's already not as bad as it was a week ago (and people keep holding doors open for me; I think they might think I'm having chemo :) ).

I think I was feeling very overwhelmed with all the paperwork, very worn down and invisible and I wonder if people not ringing links in to my feelings of invisibility as well.  I do feel it very acutely and struggle with it (and those co-dependency issues crop up again; when I used to do things for lots of people my phone never stopped ringing.  When I stopped, so did the calls.  That was hard).

I'd also been feeling very torn about the friends who haven't kept in touch much since we moved (the ones we now live near to).  I've been so hurt by that, and so utterly surprised as well.  I just didn't see that coming.  But I also struggle with feeling guilty for being 'demanding', ruminating on whether or not I'm being reasonable, wondering what it is about me that makes people feel so reluctant to ring for a chat every now and again, why do my own family not want me, why haven't I had a boyfriend for so long, and so on.  I think that's played in to it all as well.

I feel less like that now.  A couple of them have got in touch over the weekend; it's my birthday this week and they've contacted about meeting up and I realised a big part of it is, I just don't want to.  Regardless of all the other things that have gone on, I just find spending time with them too tiring right now and I don't feel up to doing it.  So I'm trying just to go with how I feel and not think too much about anything else.  I've a friend down for holidays this week so I'm seeing her on the day, which is a handy excuse for not seeing anyone else.  Life can be complicated at times :) Lol.  I hope you get your trees sorted soon xx xx

Hopalong

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Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #175 on: August 05, 2019, 01:28:26 PM »
Tupp, hon, I know you're not into religion.
So maybe there's some secular program that might be comparable.

But I thought I'd describe anyway something I find important about the church community I'm in. I'm possibly going to be what they call a "pastoral visitor" -- a small team that goes through a little training in empathic listening, and volunteers for regular visits to various members who are isolated or having a hard time. Not out of pity. Not out of superiority. Not out of anything except the certain knowledge that isolation and loneliness are killers of hope and possibility and that everyone deserves to know they're not alone. Some people are just made for it, and take serious satisfaction in hearing others. It goes both ways, the benefit.

Sometimes, miraculously, people will actually reach out for it without others having to guess. And if there's any way you can do that with some sort of similar program, while trusting that a visit from a person drawn to kindness and who has a spiritual value of compassion and sees the need for caring listening as common emotional sense, nothing unusual whatsoever....would improve your life enormously.

I can't imagine how meaningful and healing it could be for you to pour your heart out in DETAIL, while being listened to WITH CONCENTRATION (which most of our friends can't provide). And regularly. So that kind of person would be incorporated into your life as, I dunno, an auntie. A village elder. Somebody who doesn't try to fix it (you're doing a damn good job of navigating all that), but genuinely cares about HEARING it.

Doing this in 3-D as well as here, I believe, could make the essential difference between what's difficult and what causes despair.

I think of religious organizations (including Buddhist) as one place to find this. And just describing your isolation and yearning to be "checked on" by someone who cares, as honestly as you have here, is all it would take. A little courage to be vulnerable with a pastor or Buddhist teacher, but allowing for the possibility of that good thing happening.

love to you,
Hops

PS When Things Fall Apart by Pema Chodron...huge huge help when I felt I was nearly dying from stress in isolation. She's probably one reason Buddhist community crossed my mind. That plus your bald head! :)

« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 01:30:41 PM by Hopalong »
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #176 on: August 06, 2019, 07:12:34 PM »
Happy Birthday this week, Tupp.  I hope you have a lovely celebration with your friend.  Something you really enjoy doing.

I wanted to share book recommendations from my T for overcoming codependency.

The first is Conquering Shame and Codependency by Darlene Lancer.

The second is Facing Codependence by Pia Mellody, and the third is called Breaking Free, a Recovery Workbook by Pia Mellody that goes along with Facing Codependence. 

I'm ordering them tonight.... I've been procrastinating. 

Lighter


Meh

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Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #177 on: August 07, 2019, 02:19:09 AM »
HAPPY NOT GETTING OLDER DAY

lighter

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Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #178 on: August 07, 2019, 02:59:59 PM »
Currently reading HAPPINESS by Thich Nhat Hanh.  My T lent it to me, and I just knew she'd put a book in my hands today.  So useful. 

I ordered the 3 I listed PLUS the book PEACE IS EVERY STEP  by Thich Nhat Hanh.

It's time to practice consistently, and have tools to get me back on track when I struggle.

So many moving pieces, and learning how to put them down, so I can focus on being here, now, is the trick to having control over flipping the ON OFF switch for being present.... being in the zone... etc. 

Call it what I have, it's learning to get myself back in the moment, and re set old pathways so THIS is my default.

20 - 60 days of practice. 

::BIG BREATH::.

I might journal about this. 

I might write about it on the board. 

Will see.

Lighter


Hopalong

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Re: Reciprocal Relationships with Others and Ourselves
« Reply #179 on: August 08, 2019, 03:54:30 PM »
Tupp, I want to apologize for mumbling on about church settings again...it's not appropriate. It's not RELIGION I imagine for you (in any way), it's community and comfort. That's it.

And you're already taking all kinds of steps, from forest groups to a dream of a future gathering place...that are your OWN ideas about community and comfort.

I'm just busting myself about my own urges to fix. I honestly am so grateful for your openness and sharing...you are an inspirational person for me. You speak more truth more often than I ever could. You have a shattering honesty about everything.

Because of my own "Mama Tiger" fantasies, every now and then when I look full-face at your lonely struggle, I feel frantic to fix it. That's not my place, and frantic ain't healthy.

How much? Thinking about your situation, I actually Googled support groups in UK, kinds of things, a couple times. (Can't do it of course without a postal code.) The other day I emailed the contact for a UK humanist organization that offers humanist pastoral care...but only in institutional settings. I asked him if it ever is available in the community, as well. I just wanted to PM you some help, to show you that you could find caring visitors who would listen with acceptance and compassion and break a little light channel through your painful isolation.

But I don't really think it's healthy for me to feel frantic to support anyone. I need to be loving, present, and ready to offer what I can, in this 2-D context.

I promise I'll continue to do that. Just wanted to 'fess up to why I nattered on (again) about church! It's just because it gave me an extended family (trustworthy despite ups and downs) and I ....err... urgently, now that I've renounced franticlly .... wanted you to have that too.

I found just as much, and just as supportive, comfort through a totally secular women's support group here years ago. Alas, feminism in that old-school circle-meeting sense has faded or transmogrified lately into just #MeToo and identity politics. And online. Sigh. When will people rediscover how much it matters to sit in reality with other humans? What I'd found so helpful was just that women could provide amazing strength to each other, regardless of background. It wasn't political at all, and it worked.

Hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."