Author Topic: Husbands insensative comment--Am I over reacting?  (Read 6184 times)

Redhead Erin

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Husbands insensative comment--Am I over reacting?
« on: March 30, 2012, 02:00:10 AM »
(First, the discalimer:  We all know nobody is perfect.  My husband is a good man.  I love him very much. I usually think out marriage is basically strong.  He is not abusive. I did abusive once.  I can tell the difference.)

The short version of this is, My husband is really an emotional moron.  Really.  I mean, he is really clueless about a lot of things, and very much a bull in a china shop when it comes to the fragile feelings of a damaged person like me.

So, in the process of one of his little stupidity episodes, during which he was amusing himself by calling our son goofy and mildly irritating things like "hippie," he said this:

"You know I don't mean a lot of things I say.  I love both of you!" The cadence of his speech and the things he said afterward made it perfectly clear that he had meant to include "I love you" in the category of things he does not really mean.


I was on my way out the door and about to let it go, but he had to repeat it, he was jsut so pleased with himself. At that point, I had to stop and say something.  I thought it was a hurtful statement, not very different from saying "I dont really love you" or "I lied when I said I loved you."

I know you all know where that hit me.  Like everyone here, I grew up in a home where "I love you" was, by definition, a self-serving lie. I don't need to hear that from my husband, not even as a joke. 

But see, I'm used to that kind of cluelessness from him. What bothers me is, I tried to explain that what he said was hurtful to both our son and me.  He kept saying "Kiddo isnt upset by it," to which Kiddo said, "Yes I am!" And he accuded me of over-reacting, and then gave several half-hearted apologies, things like "I'm sorry YOU took it the wrong way," shit like that.  IN other words, it seemed like he was saying "You're stupid if you don't get and appreciate the joke I made at your expense."  He seemed far more interested in amusing himself by being an asshole than in mending the damage he did to me and  more importantly to our son. He refused to make a decent apology and started trying to make it into a win-lose situation, whereby apologizing for wast he said would be akin to losing some kind of battle.

I would have expected a normal person to realize his mistake and then apologize for making such a boneheaded statement. Then maybe give me a hug and say," Honey, you know I love you."  What really hurts is that he never tried to set me at ease or even give me a hug to help ease the sting of what he said. 


I very much need to feel that my marriage is a stable and reliable safe haven from the world.  When I am not dealing with my emotionally grueling job, my eating disorder, the bills, homeschooling my 11 year old almost-an-adolescent son, sick animals, or  Mommie Dearest, I need someplace warm and safe where I can feel secure and loved.  Right or wrong, that is what marriage has always meant to me.


This makes me feel very insecure and fearful.  Does he love me or not?  It was framed as a joke, but was it really? IF he really does love me, why wouldn't he say so? What else is a lie? What can I trust?

Please, y'all, please help me unravel this. Do you think I am over-reacting or being overly sensitive? Does it seem like he is being more of a lunk-head than most men? What does this mean? Why the hell does he act this way?

BonesMS

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Re: Husbands insensative comment--Am I over reacting?
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2012, 05:23:32 AM »
You're not over-reacting, Erin.  I've dealt with similar lunkheaded idiots in my neck of the woods to the extent that I got fed up with their stupidity!  No matter how many times we explain the obvious, they just DON'T GET IT!!!   :P

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sKePTiKal

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Re: Husbands insensative comment--Am I over reacting?
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2012, 07:53:00 AM »
Hi Erin,

Look, my hubs likes to tease me... and make those kinds of jokes, too. He's hoping that I'll be able to play too... and we've realized over time (and a lot of my own explaining)... that those things don't sound funny to me; that I can't TELL when he's joking (because it was never a joke in the FOO)... and I understand that this is kind of hubs' way of "taking my emotional temperature".

I DO over-react - badly. And what's worked, is that I'll play-act a really hurt pouty face back at him... so he knows that's what I'm feeling... instead of "just taking it" and chewing on it, and getting ever more resentful about it... until he says something else and I explode. There's a lot more to "clean up" after that.

But here's the thing - and this comes from what you wrote - you know he loves you, but there are life-stresses. You are legitimately worried about some things. And perhaps, the situation starts to feel unequal if your hubs starts to play like this? It might be his way of lowering tension - which backfires when it triggers your insecurities. You absolutely need to know he's got your back and will protect you, right? But on the other hand -- maybe he's got a point about simply letting the tension levels drop a little bit, and "in the moment" - just playing with him and your son. Admittedly, a different choice in words and type of play would've been considerate... but maybe he's feeling his own insecurities, too?

It's like taking a time-out from worry, being serious, plugging away at the daily grind. I don't know about you, but I've had to completely re-learn that I'm allowed to put the burden that I tossed onto my shoulders down -- and I'm still not very good at it, but at least I see I need this along with all the work accomplishments, too. Guys tend to crack wise, make jokes to distance and minimize the recognized seriousness of situations... because they need to take that "time-out" and just relax a bit... whereas we women tend to keep on, keeping on like we have blinders on... until some undefined moment, time or place arrives. And these kinds of play-engagement are our guys way of telling US to take a time-out... because they do care; they know we're stressed; and it will do us good to lighten up & just be silly for a bit - and that they NEED this from us - that reassurance that it's safe to be happy and play. No matter how strange and awkward that feels.
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mudpuppy

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Re: Husbands insensative comment--Am I over reacting?
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2012, 11:17:46 AM »
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He seemed far more interested in amusing himself by being an asshole than in mending the damage he did to me and  more importantly to our son. He refused to make a decent apology and started trying to make it into a win-lose situation, whereby apologizing for wast he said would be akin to losing some kind of battle.

I suspect you guys are talking past each other. When you expect him to apologize for what he thinks is harmless funny he gets his back up because asking for an apology to him means you didn't think he was funny which hurts his pride and from his perspective you didn't see the humorous intent. Still, once you tell him it was hurtful he ought to just suck it up and really apologize. From my experience we make jokes like this for not much more reason than we think it's entertaining, if not to others at least to ourselves.
After some time has passed does he usually make it right or do these things just sit there?


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Like everyone here, I grew up in a home where "I love you" was, by definition, a self-serving lie.

That's not actually true of everyone here. Some didn't encounter Ns until later in life.

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Does it seem like he is being more of a lunk-head than most men?

I thought women considered the lunk-headedness of all men to be like zero on the Kelvin temperature scale; an absolute number below which is a physical impossibility. :?

mud

Redhead Erin

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Re: Husbands insensative comment--Am I over reacting?
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2012, 06:54:06 PM »
Hey everybody. 

Wow am I glad I have this place to come to.  I feel so much better.

I completely see your point, Phoenix.  I know he wants to relax and play, and you're right, I do have problem with that.  I am far too serious and I don't lighten up easily.   But as you said, he could have chosen a different game to play. I have always been "one of the guys" to a degree, and I was with him for many years before we started dating.  So I guess I can see how that could add to the confusion. 

But still.....he really could have picked something different to play.

Mud, I stand corrected.  What I should have said is that probably most everybody here knows the feeling when "I love you" is really just a lie. And to answer your question, what usually happens after an incident like this is a big stupid argument.  Depending on how I feel and how he feels, it can go on for days.  A couple of times, a misunderstanding like this one almost lead to divorce.

It seems like he says something, probably inadvertently, that he thinks is funny or maybe practical,  but I think is hurtful. Sometimes, like last night, I face it immediately and say, Hey, that hurts!" Sometimes I let it fester a while.  Either way, when I do point out that I was hurt by such and such a statement, he then starts behaving as if we are having an argument.  He doesn't fight fair, anyway, but that is a whole different story.  All I EVER want is for him to  cease fire and say, "I'm sorry, I didnt mean to hurt you." But he continues to fire away at me, hurting me more.  He doesnt really seem to care that my pain, me feelings, are real to me. he ridicules me and says my pain is dumb.  It feels like when I was a kid. I cry and tell him to stop hurting me and he says he isnt hurting me. But he is and he wont admit it.  I find it hard to believe that at this point, when I ma immobilized with tears running down my face, that he doesnt believe he is hurting me. I know it is dangerous to depend on one person so much but I do, he is all I have, he is my everything.  I need him to make the pain stop but he wont.  He jsut sits ther and watches me cry and hurts me more.

[Okay, small flashback there, that was a little intense]

I tried to tell him this morning, after I had been up all night, that I don't actually expect him to be able to avoid hurting my feelings.  It's such an emotional minefield inside my head, I don't think anyone could negotiate that.  On the other hand, he needs to respect taht I have a lot of tender spots, and should he happen to step on one, which he will, all I need is for him to back up and say, "I'm sorry,  I would never hurt you."

Why is that so hard for him?

sKePTiKal

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Re: Husbands insensative comment--Am I over reacting?
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2012, 09:50:29 AM »
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I tried to tell him this morning, after I had been up all night, that I don't actually expect him to be able to avoid hurting my feelings.  It's such an emotional minefield inside my head, I don't think anyone could negotiate that.  On the other hand, he needs to respect taht I have a lot of tender spots, and should he happen to step on one, which he will, all I need is for him to back up and say, "I'm sorry,  I would never hurt you."

Why is that so hard for him?

Maybe... maybe because he isn't the one who caused the original wound?? I don't know Erin. It is something I had to accept about me, with my hubs. I was expecting him to read my mind and automatically just know me so well, that he wouldn't do or say those things. No one can realistically do that - especially as we start connecting the dots in healing and finally acknowledge where those touchy buttons really are - when we're actively doing that kind of inner work, it seems like we start seeing examples of the "same thing" (that original wound) everywhere. Keep trying to tell him - the right words will eventually come out. And making that effort is worth it.

My hubs kinda goes to the opposite extreme, where he wants to apologize for everything - even for my emotional reactions to things that didn't even involve him! That's kinda maddening, too. And when he does take something I say, way too much to heart... we have a new inside joke we use: that offense isn't going to justify divorce! It's funny how much air becomes clear, when one or the other of us simply says this. (We've both been married 3 times). It does acknowledge one's anger - but it immediately puts that on a scale and in perspective. And then we can both work on it and sometime laugh at it, too.

I was a little worried about what you said, that sometimes he'll respond to your direct statement that a comment hurt, with the beginning shots of an argument. But on reflection, I think I can understand why he might be defensive. He might need some positive reassurances that you see him as being "on your side" and not as an opponent... or out to get you, with emotional games, like Nmom. It's really easy at some points in the healing process, to withdraw into ourselves so completely, that any significant other starts to feel completely shut out. So, keep trying to talk - even if it's hard and clumsy - it's better than not talking. He might surprise you, if you keep trying - by starting to reveal his perspective.

When I blew up at my hubs' to the Nth power expression of apology, one time... "stop saying you're sorry for stuff you didn't do!!"... he finally let me know he felt like he was walking on eggshells and that, in his perception of me... any little thing could turn my anger towards him. He didn't feel safe with me. And yes, that hurt to know. So we work on this. We still say things, from time to time, that hurt each other. The current one happened in a social setting, when I wasn't feeling well anyway and just wanted to go home and lie down. The culture here automatically assumes the male spouse makes all the financial decisions and wives are arm candy (that's a nasty stereotype; I know it... but I run into it a lot... that night I was over-sensitive to it). A realtor suggested my hubs should start looking to invest in ocean front property... talking right past me, as I tried to stay in the conversation... of course, hubs' ego was wide-open accepting of this so out of my mouth falls: "But, I still sign the checks" as I walk away to avoid an immediate rebuttal.

Yeah. That was nasty. Hubs took it as a personal assault and I had to explain that I was reacting to this gender-typing that was going on, didn't feel well anyway, and it wasn't about him at all. But guess what? That's one of his touchy buttons - that my income is way more than his now. Every now and then, he'll say - but of course, you still write the checks - to get his dig in about it. That's how we desensitive the issue. I was wrong to just let this come out, this way and embarrass him... but now, he's a lot more aware when this starts happening in social settings. We'll get past it - and in reality - there is no his/her money; it's all "ours".

I guess, Erin... the main thing is to talk it out - and the advice to wait until everyone's emotions are calmer, to talk about it outside of the moment is good advice. It helps to start off with a list of all the reasons you appreciate him, before tackling 1 thing (not the list!) of things you want to work on or improve or come to an understanding about. The guys who've stuck with us, held us while we cried, stood up and defended us against the "crazy"... need to know that even if there are things that could be improved... he's not next on the NC-list.... and that they are still our heros.

It was very very scary to have that talk with my hubs. But we've both felt better since then and the tension has disappeared... and yes, he's allowed to "poke" me back for the thing I said, that hurt him. We're working the other stuff out too. Our lives have turned topsy-turvy in a big way, over the past few years and there are a lot of checkmarks on the life-stressor list, for each of us. You really can't do it all at one time, but you do have to start somewhere and take one step at a time... your lives have been stressed for awhile, too. Might be a good time to talk about how you've survived... and what the next plans might be... and maybe even plan for "just you and hubs" mini-vacation. Talk about what you were afraid of a year or two ago -- and laugh together about how differently things turned out...
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Redhead Erin

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Re: Husbands insensative comment--Am I over reacting?
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2012, 12:46:06 PM »
Emotionally, my husband is a mystery to me, and to himself.  From what little I know about his mother and the way I see his family acting now, I suspect his childhood wasn't exactly perfect.  It seems there was a fair amount of neglect and perhaps even some emotional and physical abuse. His mother had a cruel streak (justified by her religious views).  I don't think she ever tied t instruct him much, just punished him when he did wrong without ever having set the standard for what is right.   Hubs has few memories of his childhood before Jr. High age, and none before age 5 or so. His cousin reports that she and his sister used to "throw him under the bus" to cover for their misbehavior, and that Hubs would get beaten and punished, while they continued to  play and have fun.

Not surprisingly, Hubs dislikes and distrusts women in general.  I think the appeal I always held for him is that I am NOT a game player, but very open and honest.  I have always been sort of a tomboy and a "one of the guys" kind of gal.  Last night, he told me that this is part of the confusion for him, he never really knows where "One of the guys" ends and the sensitive areas begin. Okay.... that's fair, I guess. 

Back to the distrusting women part...It seems that when I get hurt and want him to apologize for it, he thinks I am in some way trying to manipulate him.   I think this is what puts him in fighting mode. ( I wonder whether he hears his mother telling him "now say you're sorry!" for something he didn't even do.) ANd then he digs in his heels, and he is damn sure not going to apologize for something he didn't do. 


Now here is the hell of it, I think:

All I want at this point is for him (and I am way too needy and dependent on him, I know it) to back up and make things right. Inside, I feel like a little girl hurt for no apparent reason.  And Part of me wants to beg him," FIX THIS! FIX IT NOW! "

ANd then he digs in nad says "I AM NOT GOING TO APOLOGIZE FOR THIS AND YOU CAN"T MAKE ME! "


And from there....Well, you know.  It just gets worse. He digs in harder, I break down.  I feel cut and bloody. Emotionally, it feels like I am bleeding. The longer it goes on, the worse it gets.  It feels, to me, as if he is enjoying the pain he is causing me, which only intensifies over time. But he does not really believe he is hurting me, because its an emotional hurt, and there is no physical evidence.  So he thinks for some reason (this is the part that always confuses me) that I am LYING about the pain he is causing me.

The longer he refuses to comfort me, the more painful it becomes.

The more I cry, the more he digs in.

The more he digs in, the more it hurts.

Then as I am getting to my most clingy and destperate "PLEASE JSUT HOLD ME AND MAKE IT ALL BETTER! I NEED YOU AND I AM SCARED YOU DONT LOVE ME!" he will say something incredibly mean to drive me away and relieve the pressure on himself.

So as things go on, I become more and more desperate for comfort and reassurance, and he becomes more and more desperate to gain some space from the pressure he thinks I am putting on him.

mudpuppy

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Re: Husbands insensative comment--Am I over reacting?
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2012, 03:28:35 PM »
So have you guys ever done any marriage counseling?
It sounds like you both understand the dynamic of what's going on. You certainly do.
Seems like a third party might be able to give you both some methods to short circuit the cycle of crying and digging in.

mud

Redhead Erin

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Re: Husbands insensative comment--Am I over reacting?
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2012, 07:14:50 PM »
we did counseling a couple of times.  Three, actually.  2 of the counselors would not address the issues we were working with, and the third got too close to my serious incest stuff and I had to stop.  I completely fell apart the first time I got into that, and  I really could not do it again with a little kid around ( My son was about 3).

mudpuppy

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Re: Husbands insensative comment--Am I over reacting?
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2012, 10:27:12 PM »
Never mind then.

mud