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Shame

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JustKathy:

--- Quote ---So how does a child relate to the concept of shame anyways....the child just experiences as made to feel that "she is bad'?
--- End quote ---

From what the woman in the clip is saying, it makes the child feel worthless, like he/she doesn't belong, or isn't fit for this world. That's certainly the effect my N mother's actions had on me. It's taken years of therapy to shake those feelings, though some of it is still there. I think that once it enters your brain, it's there in some form for life. I don't think I'll ever feel 100% worthy. What you learn as a child is very hard to un-learn, unfortunately.

sKePTiKal:
With frequent shaming, a child can feel that IF ONLY they were someone else - more perfect, more beautiful, more lovable, more ____________ - then Mama would love them, instead of essentially excluding the child from "the family" via that shaming. The child's "self-support-system" moves inward - excluding the rest of the world. Outwardly, they're usually excessively eager to please, to be helpful and useful... another strategy for gaining that love/recognition.

Sometimes. One example.

Ales2:
There is also a distinction between healthy shame (i.e having a conscience) vs. toxic shame (making the child feel worthless for honest mistakes).  I have alot of shame for normal mistakes that I shouldn't even care about, trivial stuff. To this day, I have shame around getting my car repaired or god forbid I get a parking ticket, or as a kid, when I spilled something on my school uniform that would require extra care or cleaning. I was made to feel shame for missing school or not looking or feeling right.
Its one thing to hold a child accountable for when they lied, but still continue to love them and another to make someone feel unloved because they spilled their chef boyardee on a white blouse. Whats sad is that even as adults we have to reprogram ourselves after this nonsense.

:(

sKePTiKal:
It is sad - and it's not easy at all. It still sneaks up on me at the worst possible times, and I'm still not (always) quite able to recognize it for what it is before it starts to push me into the self-sabotage cycle. A person likes to think - I'm cured - it's gone!!!! and won't be an issue anymore. SIGH... nope, it's an ongoing thing, it's fluid and hides in a lot of dark, little cubby holes... and the pattern, after all, is built of neurotransmitters, connections, and bio-processes in our brains. Still able to be changed... but it takes a LOT of attention, presence in the moment, and awareness.

One o' these days... I'll cross the tipping point... and it'll seem like a thing of the past, instead of an on-going struggle.

Meh:

--- Quote from: JustKathy on May 14, 2012, 03:27:38 PM ---
--- Quote ---So how does a child relate to the concept of shame anyways....the child just experiences as made to feel that "she is bad'?
--- End quote ---

From what the woman in the clip is saying, it makes the child feel worthless, like he/she doesn't belong, or isn't fit for this world. That's certainly the effect my N mother's actions had on me. It's taken years of therapy to shake those feelings, though some of it is still there. I think that once it enters your brain, it's there in some form for life. I don't think I'll ever feel 100% worthy. What you learn as a child is very hard to un-learn, unfortunately.

--- End quote ---

Um hum, especially if there is an emotional memory and belief about self AND also a habituated patterning in the brain at the same time.

I ask about how the child relates to shame because it hasn't really come up in my inner child work. It's sort of hard to pinpoint although I know it's there. I think maybe the inner child doesn't differentiate my adult self somewhat does --just having a feeling or experience vs. internalizing and maybe not even feeling it.

I think there are obvious shame points maybe. Possibly much of it is subconscious? Maybe even more subconscious than the most of the inner child stuff. Or maybe it's just a different age than what I normally connect with in the inner-child work.

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