The worst thing anybody ever said to me (the eating disorder that will not die)

[sKePTiKal]

I saw the difference after he showed it to me, but I realized I really do have a problem with thinking any flattering outfit, especially one that shows my figure, is automatically slutty.  So hard to know the difference some times.

Man, did this sound familiar to me! You know how we say Nmoms gave us mixed messages? Prime example.

It works sorta like this - I'm gonna use parentheses to include the "subtext" - the contradictory message inside the words that gets kids all mixed up and confused... and then that becomes these habits that keep following us, as adults.

There are just some clothes that are cut exactly right to flatter our particular bodies; the color is pleasing; they "feel" good and generate that positive, confident, well-being glow just to be in them. As kids, these are our favorites and we'd wear them all the time if we were allowed.

So: Nm says "Go get dressed and put on something nice". (I want to impress people and you WILL NOT look like a ragamuffin and embarrass me.)

Kid puts on those "magic clothes" and returns. Nm says: "OH NO... you're not going out looking like that! What were you thinking? What's wrong with you?" (How DARE you look so much prettier, happier and healthier than I do??) Nm's green with envy - so automatically "blames/shames" the kid.

When kid is older - and that's a range of ages, really - when she (especially she) is old enough to follow fashion and is experimenting with the idea of how to express herself - with clothes & accessories - to say: I'm like 'everyone else'... but also like me, too, at the same time... kid is old enough to be at the awareness stage of feeling included (group acceptance), feeling autonomous (uniquely you), and is normally quite perceptive and emotionally sensitive to kid group social cues.

Parents who are parenting, recognize this stage and the emotional minefield that it is. Parents need to start letting go, in phases. Kid is starting to push boundaries, too... the "you can't tell me who I am, what to wear, how to look, or what to do" stage. It's a volatile, tricky point in everyone's growth/development - especially, I think for mom's and daughters - NORMALLY.

Nms don't recognize that anything is different about kid - in their mind, the relationship remains the same: Nm is totally in control and D is persona non grata --- EXCEPT as how you reflect Nm back to her and the false image she projects out to the world. The LAST thing Nm wants to admit in this stage of growth in D, is that she is an autonomous individual -- that is actually a threat to Nm's fragile, self-constructed fantasy of total power and control. The healthier the D is, the more control an Nm will exert over her - almost making her a prisoner - because she is envious, jealous of the D and her healthy personality. As a teen with an Nm, it's like a daily dose of evil, critical, bitch... there is no escape, yet we desperately try... like a bird that gets trapped inside the house.

Sometimes, Nms will project their feelings/attitudes about themselves onto the D -- this is the "you're just like me" statements. Like, you're so fat you need to diet just like me. This is one form of control - like brainwashing. When it starts when you are a kid, the beginnings of that tangled mess are buried deep, deep within oneself. We want to follow "the rules", we want to "be good girls", we want mom to love us unconditionally... that is just as normal as breathing. So we do what Mom asks/tells/insists we do to get in her good graces. Then, when we do succeed (lord knows we're motivated enough!) - all it does is contrast so clearly with Nm's lack of success... she feels entitled to be selfish, jealous and mean... (Your success makes me feel bad - it's all your fault.)...
that she just dumps all those negative feelings on to kid.

Kid is appropriately confused as hell. This over here is "good" - you did this; and now it's "bad". And on top of that, you MADE Nm feel bad about herself too... but you weren't trying to... you were doing what she said to do...

... and kid thinks: I can't do anything right. Screw it. It's not worth trying anymore. There's something wrong with me that I can't MAKE Nm happy with me... there's something wrong with ME, that Nm doesn't love me the way I am.

With me so far? OK... now lets say Nm has conflicting feelings about her own sexuality. Maybe she blames/hates men... they're only after one thing, you know... they have no real "feelings"... maybe she's completely at odds with how she looks, how she feels about how she looks, is totally jealous and paranoid about all other women... and this whole ball of yuck is threatening to overwhelm and destroy her fantasy of being the "most beautiful of them all", the most powerful of them all...

in her so-called relationship with a D, she pushes, insinuates, i.e. projects those feelings onto D as well -- which temporarily puts the "problem" she's dealing with... outside of herself. "You're like me, when I was your age. You're just like me." When she's watching you go through the same thing - that is unresolved for her - she is using you to try to solve or reconcile her own inner conflict (she's not accepting responsibility for her own feelings - that "you make me feel... statement" gets slightly adjusted to the "judging/criticism" channel: why do you dress so sexy? you look like a tramp! If you dress like that, don't be surprised when men get the wrong idea. I suspect - at least for me - this is how my inner critic got so strong and out of control.

I KNOW, from my own similar experience with my mom... that my distorted perception of myself was directly due to not being able to tell my own real feelings apart from all the stuff my mom projected into/onto/around me. It was terrifying what she did. At a sanity/primal level... and I learned to cope, as a kid... by completely hiding my "self"... even trying to hide it from my own mind -- so I wouldn't unconsciously telegraph something that would bring down the "dragon lady" on the last shred of self-respect which I clung to with my psychological fingernails. Very few other things in life were as terrifying as that experience.

So - the "work" of repair to the self - can be done with journals. Separating, remembering, "hearing" the voices in one's mind... of you, yourself, Erin... and untangling that from Nm's projection, jealousy, and control-issues. Writing down all those times, that one remembers... you start to hear your own self - loud and clear. Boy, is she pissed!!      She can/will work through that and eventually let it go. She will learn to let go of Nm's ideas about her - to actually return them; give them back to where they came from (an emotional, NO THANK YOU) - and a very large weight will be lifted from her. Sometimes, that translates via the mind-body connection physically, too.

Something else that helps -- is to counter the messages that Nm stuck in your head with what other think. To take a poll, so to speak. Of people you trust, and maybe even total strangers. When everything is tallied up, you'll find out that Nm is the ONLY one who thinks/thought those things about you. Other people have completely different perceptions of you... and she can't be the expert/authority on YOU - because a.) she lives in a bubble that only consists of her and b.) she doesn't even SEE you - who you really are - most likely. [Yeah, that's a tough one to swallow; but it explains SOOO much.]

So it's your perception of you... versus Nms perception of you. The fight of the century! But it's all within your own thoughts and feelings about yourself. It's not like she's constantly "at you" now... her work is all done -- she's succeeded at making you as miserable as she is. She's off and about spreading the "joy" elsewhere now. That is a huge advantage to you, you know.

While she's not reinforcing the old feelings and messages and projections -- you can purge all the crap that's "not you - it's Nm" from your perception of yourself. Peel it off, throw it out, save it in a box, bag or book -- and give it back to her metaphorically.

It doesn't belong to you. You don't deserve it. You didn't "earn" it. It's NOT YOURS. Return to sender.

[Overcomer]

Erin.  I haven't been to the board for a long time.  When I logged in your thread immediately caught my eye.  Oh my!!  Did it resonate with me.

As a youngster my mom would call me "Fat Fat."  Now she is constantly reminding me and my daughters how she stays skinny.  However, her bird like eating does nothing for the constant constipation she has.  We have all told her to make sure she eats fiber so she will go.  She does not listen.

Unfortunately, those brain patterns are hard wired into our brains.  It is so hard to rewire the brain washing we endured.

[Hopalong]

You know those amazing retractable cords that are in most new vaccuum cleaners?

Sometimes I think Nmothers have uber-secret-engineered NASA-type (no offense, Mars, hello) umbilical cords, which when everybody else just thinks...ahh, now that's severed so we move on to the separate human being part, and maybe they hide them under their hospital gowns, or have a subdural spring-loaded coil housing for them that's invisible on medical exams, so when the baby (especially the baby-daughter) gets home, it turns out she's still plugged into Mama, and Mama comes soooooo close, and that's all good while one is concentrating on getting through infancy, but then the self, rather the Self, is supposed to start straining the leash, but NMom's invisible-retractable umbilical is soooooooooooooooo sophisticated that even when little Self is alone in its room or reading a book, one punch (of Nmom's trigger finger) on the button under her rib, and zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzhhhhhhhhooooom, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzziiiiiiiiiiipppppppppp, here comes little daughter, flopping and strangling, but absolutely, completely unable

NOT
TO
HEEL

(I believe I morphed this metaphor from umbilical cord into retractable dog leash, but if the leash fits....)

Aaarrrggghh.

Woof.

Hops

[Ales2]

Hi All - Very interesting thread. A suggested reading is the chapter on food in THE MOTHER FACTOR by Stephen Poulter. You can probably access it online at Amazon or check a library. His observations about the reasoning behind Nmothers obsessions with food and weight is explained.

Hello and hope all is well here with everyone.

[sKePTiKal]

Hops, leashes wear out... break... from overuse.

I had to recover from laughing on the floor before I could even type - that is absolutely a great image!

[sKePTiKal]

Erin:

Thinking about those self-sabotage feedback loops -- and how to get out of them this morning, a thought suddenly occurred to me. Thought I'd pass it on and maybe it'll snowball into something useful; if not -- well, we can always keep plugging along.

Thought was: that NMs are ALL about "rules"... problem with their rules, is that not even they knew what the rules were consistently. One day we don't eat enough... the next day we eat too much... according to "SHE who makes the RULES and is always RIGHT".

I think in a primal attempt to have my own autonomy - independence of thought, feeling and action - I decided to "break the rules" at some point. Out of frustration, I'd guess, at trying to "be a good girl and follow the rules"... because everytime you think NOW, I'm sure to gain approval or love or respect... the rules changed again. In my case, I deliberately chose things that are supposed to be "bad for you". Out of frustration at trying to figure out the mystery of what I could do to earn that NM "gold star" seal of approval... at least there was no uncertainty about the things on her "bad" list, you know? That was easier, clearer. (Even if it didn't help me be happier or like myself more.)

I wonder if it's possible to help break those old, bad habits by proposing to break the rules -- in a healthy, happy, good for our Self way?

[Redhead Erin]

I am getting a very clear picture of the self-sabotage I am committing.  It is sort of creepy.

Yesterday I found out that in spite of having been camping at the county fair for a week, living on peanut butter and fair food (fair fare?) I had actually lost 3 pounds! Now this should have been cause for celebration, right?  What a pleasant surprise.

Ummm......not so much.

What happened instead was, I got depressed.  I went psychotic on my husband because he smelled up the house with pop-tarts and didn't save any for me.  I slammed cupboard doors.   I broke down in tears. I started a binge.


It started with a little sneaky bit of candy from the health food store.  Hey, nobody has to know, right?  Then it was an extra piece of pizza for dinner, because I conveniently "forgot" I had had too much bread for lunch.  Then the horrible meltdown over the poptarts and the culmination of smearing peanut butter all over a fiber-1 brownie because it was the only thing I had left in the house that would satisfy my need to for something sweet and damaging. 

Fortunately I didn't get too far because I am adept at recognizing the bingeing behavior and putting a stop to it. It also helps that I have packed the house with diet foods, like 100-calorie snack packs and fat-free everything, so I can't do as much damage as I could have.  I stop because as soon as I recognize a binge for what it is, I get scared.  Not only do I fear the weight gain, but I also hate the out-of-control feeling.  It gives me flashbacks to sitting on the floor in my mother's house, in front of the cabinet with all the sweet gooey things in it, and just stuffing my mouth as fast as I could until the very last minute when I would have to leave for my paper route or work.  I have started putting together weird food combinations again, too, like peanut butter on a brownie. 

The interesting thing is that, this time I had the very clear understanding that I was intentionally trying to hurt myself with food.  It was almost as if someone had said to me, "Somebody around here does not want you to achieve your goals, and now you have made progress, you must be thwarted."

There are other career and life issues going on right now, which leads me to consider all the failed enterprises and self-defeating poor choices in my past and to feel that I am destined to repeat this loop again and again forever.


ETA: I did my food diary on MyFitnessPal.com, and it turns out I dint do that much damage to myself over all.  My calorie counts were high, but the workouts at the gym saved me.  I guess things could be worse.

[sKePTiKal]

The interesting thing is that, this time I had the very clear understanding that I was intentionally trying to hurt myself with food.  It was almost as if someone had said to me, "Somebody around here does not want you to achieve your goals, and now you have made progress, you must be thwarted."

There are other career and life issues going on right now, which leads me to consider all the failed enterprises and self-defeating poor choices in my past and to feel that I am destined to repeat this loop again and again forever.

Bear with me, Erin... I know how it feels, when you say the urge to eat like this feels out of control... and even though it feels that way; it isn't. I know, that for myself, this kind of eating is a substitute - call it a pacifier - for what I really need; what I really am feeling (and trying to avoid feeling). I even have a half-memory of my Nmom telling me: here, eat these potato chips... you'll feel better and forget all about - whatever you angry about, sad about, whatever. It's a kind of "numbing out" eating, for me. That's thing 1, that I know. (These are all like individual "clues" -- but I don't know how they all fit together exactly; what the narrative is.)

Thing 2, is that this "need" is overwhelmingly compelling. I simply can't focus on anything else, until the need is met or placated. I've been known to have the meltdowns you describe... until allowed to "feed that need". Stress will strengthen and empower this "need"... and the more I try meet that stress with denying myself... the bigger the meltdown.

As far as being thwarted about your goals... it's Thing 3 -- or maybe 5 or 6, I'm not really sure. I do know, that mine feels as though it's a being with it's own consciousness, goals, and it's purpose in life is to disrupt: to laugh at those goals I set... and prove that I'm not worthy to even entertain such basic human endeavors... after all, who do I think I am??  As many times as I've tried to face mine head on, and bring it to heel - control it through direct force - I've lost... even though I occasionally get glimpses of the face that belongs to this "disrupter". It is in so much pain... that it lashes out with teeth, claws, blows and words at even the most innocent kind "contact"... to hurt me. This is why, I've shifted to slowly changing the behaviors of this inner creature -- approaching it sideways, never looking it in the eyes, moving very, very, very slowly and softly. A while back, I started calling it my inner "feral cat"... and it's like that. The only way to tame it, is with the "horse whisperer" technique, total unconditional kindness, olympian patience, and enlisting the curiosity and participation of the cat... to "forget" it's agenda to thwart. Gaining it's trust in other words.

It's only my theory - so who knows if it applies in your situation or if there's anything valid to it - but I think this poor inner feral cat consciousness came into being as an EXPRESSION of the mutually exclusive emotional reality of what one expects in the way "nurturing" from a "mom"... and the opposite reality of pain/abuse experienced at the hands of that mom-person. And that thwarting compelling need can be triggered by both having a day when everything seems to go wrong and is totally difficult... AND experiencing genuine human kindness from others. Perhaps, stuck in a hidden fold of your brain, is one of those mortally painful experiences where your mom used food as weapon of hostility against you... an undeserved, unfair punishment... or as a form of control: to avoid actually giving you the encouragement you needed and the recognition of achievement you so deserved... I don't know - but it sounds like you're getting close to figuring it out.

More practical feedback: I've read that "not eating" or severely restricting calories - for most people - backfires. I've noticed, for myself that if I do remember to eat a little breakfast, then lunch and a light dinner... I sort of "vaccinate" myself against that need to binge, mindlessly. When I'm eating like that - yes, a few pounds drop - and it's not a total mystery, because when I relax - drop the draconian "YOU MUST ONLY EAT THIS MANY CALORIES" and stop stressing about "CONTROL YOURSELF" kinds of messages - when I relax, in other words... my cortisol hormones calm down; my body (yes, it has it's own kind of brain/feeling) doesn't feel as stressed - threatened - so the racing adrenalin doesn't feed that "compelling need"... and I simply don't think about or feel I need to substitute empty calorie food... for that empty emotional hole.

For me, those kinds of "rules" are useless... because it was the same technique that Nmom used that hurt me. That IS a kind of endless loop... and one CAN break out of it and weaken it. The only thing that worked for me - was self-kindness; understanding why I do this; and forgiving myself for not having able to protect myself better from the old dragon-lady Nmom.


(((((((((((((((Erin)))))))))))))))))

The "problem" isn't you, hon... You are just fine! You're smart, caring, witty, and I'll bet gorgeous, too -- just the way you are. Your life and happiness don't depend on being a certain weight - and when the "importance" of getting to that weight is more reasonable to you - it might also get a little easier.

[Hopalong]

Hi Erin,
Something jumped out at me and in the way that dreams aren't literal but still have truth, I felt something very hopeful when I read it.

You said:

....this time I had the very clear understanding that I was intentionally trying to hurt myself....

And then next:

...I am destined to repeat this loop again and again forever.

My mind said, well, what if time isn't quite as linear as we think, and that even if this mental experience felt like Thought One which was then undermined, cancelled, or defeated by Thought Two...maybe it's not so? Maybe BOTH thoughts are in active dialogue (among others) with your deep inner life-loving self, and your mind is actually full of Good New Things?

But you noticed both thoughts, which allowed this to happen. What jumped out for me was seeing your post this way:

...I [considered I] am destined to repeat this loop again and again forever....BUT....this time I had the very clear understanding that I was intentionally trying to hurt myself.

Once epiphanies, understandings, window-opens-rational moments like that shed light into the mind, even if momentarily -- I believe that light doesn't go out again. (It can get obscured, but its energy is still there, like a light-seed.)

I am mixing metaphors again, but I think there are "thought-seeds" and you sowed one.

The old "doom loop thought" is about a mechanical future, and no matter what/how/where you think it, you are not a machine. It may be familiar but despairing/negative/hopeless thoughts are chlorophyll-free, emotionally. The doom loop thought is like a "styrofoam seed" -- made of something toxic, and no life in it.

So I loved reading (no matter what "logical" order it originally appeared in) your beautiful seed-thought:

I had the very clear understanding

Suddenly, clearly understanding what you were doing at the moment IN that moment? That's HUGE! Clarity and understanding are life changing. It's like...a crack in the dike, a seed coat splitting. It's not meaningless, that you had "the very clear understanding." It's wonderful. To me, it sounds like the kind of watershed thought that actually changes a life. (Watch for it. In small ways. There will be more.)

As small a seed-thought as that can heave up sidewalks, create extraordinary canopies, beautiful bark, swaying, sounds of wind, safe places for a child to climb, and beauty that is only more inspiring, the older it gets.

love,
Hops

[Redhead Erin]

Ok, a hot cup of coffee and a Saturday morning, and I can get my thoughts together.....

First, thank you guys all so much for being there for  me.  I come back to this thread and read the posts over and over.  You are really wonderful. 

Hops...your mixed mataphores are wonderful!  They remind me of "Fractured Fairy tales" From the Rocky and Bullwinkle show http://www.brownielocks.com/fracturedfairytales.html.

Alles--I found a bunch of stuff about that author on line.  He is also concerned with the effect of missing fathers in popeles lives, which is something else I might learn from, considering I lost my father when I was 13

There is so much in all your letters that I want to reply to.... and I can't do it this morning, unfortunately.  but here are a few highlights:

**I have been waiting until I have a "perfect" body to peruse some of my other goals, like getting my personal trainer licence, selling "me" merchandise on line, and thinking about starting  a business that will last until and hopefully through retirement. I have also been a big weenie about getting more pictures taken for my website, fussing about not being sure of my "artistic vision" and other such nonsense.   

8Well, today I sent a proposal to the small business mentoring agency SCORE, (See my other thread http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=10066.0). 

*I have decided that my "artistic vision" for my site is just what it has always been--fun, playful pin-ups with a modern twist, and I am going to carve out time to work on this next week.  There is a bunch of stuff I need to do, and if I don't do some of it soon, I will run out of pictures and lose my site on the big server. I have considered whether I want to quit when the pictures run out, and I am really not ready yet.

* I have made up some new goals.  I don't know exactly how this operated in my mind, but I started with an issue of Mary Jane's Farm, a magazine I bought in a health-food store.  Turns out there is a whole on-line are real community where you can meet other women with similar interests and even earn badges (like girl scouts) I made up my mind right there to earn the Entrepreneurial Spirit badge, because there was a short mention of some ohter member who had done it and use it as a tool to start a business.  The first step of the badge is to write a business plan, so off I go! I found the SCORE webiste, submitted an request, and soon will have a mentor to help me write a plan.  I also have free online plan template I am going to use for my website business, to bring it around more to what I want it to be. 

**Some other goals I came up with include taking ice skating lessons, continuing pole-dance lessons (I would like to get certified as an instructor someday, but it takes years...) and horseback riding lessons (more physically demanding than you might think, especially since I am going to pay for said lessons by cleaning stalls, just like when I was a kid! ).  I would like to participate in the year-end performances with the ice skating and the pole dance. 


There is more I want to say, but I dont have time now.  I love all of you and thank you so much for being here on this journey.  (Oh, now I'm going to tear up-----)

'Bye now!

PS..do you know my hands were shaking as I wrote about my progress and goals, something that NEVER happens when I am writing about misery, sorrow, and being stuck? Wonder what's up with that.......