Escalating situation with N mother, really need help

[Anonymous]

Hi Portia,

Thank you.  Actually, it's somehow comforting to know that I am not the only one with a mother like this.  That sounds kind of sick because I wouldn't wish this treatment on anyone.  

I would not hesitate to call the police on my mother.  I feel no loyalty to her whatsoever anymore.  I knew she was vicious but in the past, I just got the silent treatment.  As a child and young person that was devastating to me and I would have done anything to earn back her "affection".   But now that I know more and I know how sick that was making me (chronic near constant low levels of anxiety that were escalating to panic attacks and severe bouts of depression), I realized I had to set some boundaries.  These attacks on me are new behavior because I never stood up for myself before.  

I feel like I am being crushed or snuffed out......she really does want to destroy me.  It is taking every ounce of energy I can summon just to make it through the day.  

Thank you for your concern.

[bunny]

I never called the therapist because I felt sure she would not discuss anything with me.

Maybe your therapist could talk to this therapist.

I believe that my mother attempted to manipulate the therapist and became very angry and abusive with the therapist when the therapist did not shut up and do what my mother told her she should do...which was tell my step-father he was wrong and their marital problems were all his fault.   It was for marital counseling that they were originally seeing the therapist.....perhaps when they decided to divorce the therapist saw no further use in dealing with my mother although she continued treating my step-father.  I just don't know.

I'm not upset with you for not knowing what happened but I'm a bit frustrated with this therapist. They aren't supposed to "fire" patients who get angry and abusive with them.  Your mother was actually in a therapist's office and the opportunity to help her was squandered. *sigh*

Good for you for blocking her calls!! Who needs them. You have enough of them recorded already. Oh, maybe she called an attorney but I doubt any fees passed hands and the attorney probably told her to go away. They talk to lots of nutcases in their line of work.

bunny

[Anonymous]

Hello again,

I just returned home from our Thanksgiving trip and did indeed find a letter from an attorney waiting for me.  It was sort of a strange letter....started off with "As a lawyer, there is nothing I can do to resolve the issues between you and your mother.  I might suggest counseling to sort through the issues with a minister or professional counselor."  Then it goes on to tell the long story of his divorce and how he and his wife took the high road for the benefit of their children and urges me to do the same.  

At any rate, I am meeting with an attorney of my own in the morning.  I hope with the voice mails and emails I have, it will be enough to get a restraining order.  I am hoping that will send a message to my mother that I will not tolerate this any longer.

I have been able to block her calls on my home phone but not on my cell phone (it's a work cell phone so I can't change it).  Apparently now she has decided that I am an alcoholic and using drugs.  Even in my darkest depressions I have never used drugs and am only a social drinker.  Of course, I know this and everyone around me knows this but it still is disturbing to hear her say these things to me in her messages.

[bunny]

I guess your mother found a loony attorney to write a nutty letter. Obviously he knows there are no legal grounds for her to do anything. Good luck with your attorney and let us know how it goes.

bunny

[bludie]

Although my N-father has been dead for nearly 5 years, this thread reminds me of some of his machinations from long ago when he felt threatened or wasn't getting his way. It's amazing the lengths they'll go to in order to get our attention or manipulate.

From my recent experience with my ex-N-fiance, I can tell you that threats abounded for many weeks in the aftermath of our breakup. I eventually changed the locks, got an unlisted phone number, blocked his e-mails, filed for a no contact order, and resolved to call the police if he showed up at my door.  This was very difficult to do considering that I still loved him and was grieving the loss of our relationship.

He used the same demeaning and libelous tactics as your mother -- telling neighbors and friends that I was crazy and disturbed. He even tried phoning my boss who refused to talk to him. This has finally stopped for now because I think he's either chasing or has become involved with his latest N-supply-victim.

Though it was difficult -- and I second-guessed myself as to the 'surreal' qualities of where my life had gone -- I completely cut contact. I erased his last few phone messages on my old number without ever listening to them. Feeble as it sounds, this was a turning point  because I recognized that he was losing his hold over me and I was taking back my life.

I feel for you and agree with Bunny. Your mother sounds extremely disturbed. Completely cutting contact -- perhaps even changing your phone number -- might give you a break so you don't spiral down into depression.

As for helping your mother get help, I don't know. It sounds as if her denial is strong. You could spend months trying to break through only to realize she's manipulating. Who knows what the cost would be to your sanity and self esteem?

As with the other posters above, I urge you to be gentle with yourself and take care of YOU.

[Anonymous]

Thanks so much Bunny and Bludie!  I appreciate your posts very much.  I only got to give some details to the attorney today.  She is supposed to call back tomorrow so that we can form a strategy.  

I feel so much stronger now!  I have not really done anything but somehow just actually making the phone call to the attorney and blocking my mother's calls has made me feel like I am doing something and not just sitting around being victimized and feeling sorry for myself.  

I had a good conversation today with the woman who was my mother's best friend for 20 something years....until Mom kicked her to the curb last year with a vengeance because her friend expressed concern for her and thought she needed some help and told her so.  I told her she didn't have to talk to me if she didn't want but she did.  She doesn't want to have any contact with my mother but she said if she needed to give a deposition as someone from outside my family but someone who has known my mother well and for a long time that she would.  She said if she could do that to try to get help for my mother or to help protect my son and family she would because she loves us.  

It made me feel so much better.  I asked for something that I needed and someone responded!  That hasn't happened for me very often (apart from my husband. )

Thanks again for your posts.  It gives me hope that my family will emerge from this stronger and happier AND healthier.

[Anonymous]

Hello again, how wonderful to have someone share your reality in this way about your mother. I’m glad for you that this lady talked with you and that she is someone outside the family. It must make so much difference to have that external validation, from someone who knows you. Wow!

And “just” making that phone call and blocking her calls? Some people would see those actions as very tough to do. Give yourself some well-deserved praise for your thinking and actions. In fact, how about a real treat as well?  Best wishes, Portia

[glennis1953]

They aren't supposed to "fire" patients who get angry and abusive with them. Your mother was actually in a therapist's office and the opportunity to help her was squandered. *sigh*

I used to work for a group of therapists, all licensed, and all very reputable. I have seen them occasionally "fire" a client. Rather than doing so because the client became angry and abusive, it's usually because the client will not do any of the work needed in therapy. The opportunity to help her wasn't really there, I'm sure. NPD is one of the toughest disorders to treat, because you can't treat people who don't think they have a problem. At some point, the therapist must make a decision, if the client is unable to make any progress at all. They're otherwise wasting time and money. They'll sometimes make a referral to a therapist who might be better equipped to deal with whatever problem they have. But in my years of dealing with NPD people, I've seen none of them make any progress at all in their disorder. Some will go to therapy because for that hour, it's all about them, and they get to complain about how others treat them. But even that's somewhat rare. If they're in therapy, it's usually not because of the NPD.

I also suffer from being raised by an N-mother. She's in her 80s now, and has become more childlike in her ways of manipulation. It's quite pathetic, really, and she's frustrated because two of her three children will not feed her  narcissism anymore. (We developed the backbone she worked so hard to deny us over the years.)

[Anonymous]

Hi Glennis,

Thanks for your post.  Again, I am really not sure what happened with the therapist.  I do know that my mother became disgusted because the therapist would not "blame" everything on my step-father and condemned the therapist for not doing what she said. (My mother told me this herself).   It may even be possible that my mother just quit going.....my step-father told me that the therapist would not see her anymore.  I don't know if she suggested that someone else could be of more help.  

Can I ask how you managed to maintain contact with your mother and not feed her supply?  I have not been able to find any way of doing that so I am having to resort to no contact at all.   I literally can't open my mouth to my mother without enraging her.  She has become so erratic you can't even AGREE with her anymore without her becoming angry.  

She would toy with my boundaries (and I have to say...they were pretty pathetic little boundaries)...agreeing to them but then violating them.  For example,  I might ask that she give my son only two gifts for Christmas) and she would agree..."oh yes, you are so right.  We should put the emphasis on being together...not gifts, etc".  But then she would arrive on Christmas with armloads of gifts.  Often, she would ask what my husband and I were going to give him and then she would buy the same thing and made sure he opened her's first....leaving me with no "special" gift to give him.  I learned my lesson on that issue pretty quickly.

Some of the most frustrating things were simple,  like setting a boundary for the length of time for a phone call.  She might call, I would say I had 10 minutes to talk.  After 10 minutes (of listening...not talking) I would remind her that I needed to go...she would continue to talk.....and on and on....until finally the irritation would show in my tone of voice.  And then she would explode..."YOU are not the only busy one....I am busy too!  Do you think you are the only one with a job? You only think of yourself, etc, etc."  

Some things were absolutely ridiculous....like insisting that I try on her old clothes.  I am not anywhere close to her in size, shape or height.  Her clothes would never fit me.  But if I tried to say, for instance, "Thank you for the generous offer.  It's a beautiful outfit but you are so much smaller than me, I know it would never fit me" she would become furious!  (Even trying to play on her need to weigh less  than me didn't work.)  For years I was bone rail thin (pure anxiety...my stomach was so upset I couldn't eat much of anything at all)...she had a normal figure but thought she was fat and I know she despised me for being smaller than her.  
 
Nothing was ever easy with her.  No compromises would EVER be made....no matter how inconsequential the issue.  If I asked for anything for myself, my husband or my son, I was selfish, overly-sensitive, irrational, crazy, drunk, demanding, etc.  

My therapist said she is the definition of the saying "You give an inch, they take a mile" and truer words have never been spoken.  

I wonder how you have been able to achieve it?  I admire that greatly.

[Anonymous]

May I ask why you would WANT to maintain any kind of relationship with her? She seems dangerously erratic.

[Anonymous]

Guest,

I guess I was not clear in my thoughts....I don't want anything to do with my mother.  I hope the legal system does not force me to have to deal with her (she's using my son as an excuse).  But I do find it amazing that anyone can find a way to deal with someone like this and I admire that.  It must require tremendous self control.

[glennis1953]

Can I ask how you managed to maintain contact with your mother and not feed her supply?

I keep as little contact with her as possible. She's never threatened me with taking my kids. (She wouldn't have. She doesn't particularly like kids. They're too needy and don't feed her narcissism.) If she had I would have cut all contact with her. I have little time and patience for games like that.

And that's the key. How much will I take? Not much at all, and she's come to realize that. Mother is a childish, angry, demanding, energy-sucking 85-year-old with selective memory.  I'm in my early 50s, and with my job and other activities (I'm the bass-player of two rock bands), I just don't have the time or energy to play her games.  Oh, she tries to "guilt" me, but that trick hasn't worked in years.  I cannot feel guilt because she's unhappy. That's her problem.

As I grew up, she made sure I never developed a backbone, and got pretty abusive, verbally and emotionally when she didn't get her way, so she almost always did. She believed just because she raised us, she can treat us however she wants. It wasn't until I was in my 30s before I actually got that backbone. I realized she's just like a spoiled, willful child, and began to act accordingly. I actually practiced things to say to her when she pulls her crap, until it came easily and readily.  She doesn't really know how to deal with someone who stands up for herself, so she pretty much avoids me too.

Also, of the three of us kids, I was the lucky one. I was adopted, and my younger brothers were not. Mother kept the knowledge of my adoption from me, but I discovered it myself at age 27, and began a search. One of the many things going through my mind at the time was being grateful I was NOT born to her. And even before I found my wonderful birthmother, I was able to distance myself from N-Mother emotionally. (My adoptive father was a saint, and I loved him dearly.  He dealt with her by becoming a work-a-holic.)

It's just that I have come to a point where I won't deal with toxic people for long. I call their bluff. I let them take the natural consequences of their behavior. (You treat me like crap, I won't be around.) Mother's used to everyone dancing on eggs around her. I will not. And since guilt, her only tool left to her, doesn't work on me anymore, she doesn't know how to deal with me.

It's a joy to watch, really.  

[Anonymous]

Glennis,

Thank you so much!  Unfortunately, I guess that won't work for me (at least for now).  I was trying to limit contact and so she kept in contact through my son but I could tell she was just using him as an excuse to get in my house and get in my face and try to make me angry so she could tell everyone how mean and crazy I am.  For one thing, for the first 7 years of my son's life she had not ONCE picked him up or dropped him off at my house.  My husband or I always had to take him to her house.  All of sudden she insists that she pick him up and drop him off.  

And my situation is just as you said....my mother really doesn't want my son, she actually really doesn't even enjoy taking him out for an evening but she knows that is my soft spot.  She tried to interfere in my marriage and that didn't work, my husband and I are both self-employed so she can't intefere at work, she tried to turn people at our church against us and that didn't work.  She tried calling my friends and they blew her off. Same thing with our family.  Even one of the attorneys she tried to contacted told me she sounded "histrionic".  I can picture her sitting alone at her house thinking up her next strategy.  I am an only child so there is no one else to take it out on.  

It's funny now...when she does manage to get someone on the phone she tells them "I don't know what she's saying about me but whatever it is, it's a lie!"  

Another funny thing....a male friend of ours accidently called her house instead of mine.  He said my name in a questioning manner, she said no, this is XXX, he said sorry, wrong number.  He figured out what he did and told us.  But I have had several emails and voice mails for her saying that an angry and enraged man called her house looking for me...she has "figured out who it is" and we had better call her because we are in SERIOUS trouble and only she can help us.  

For some reason today, I was able to laugh about the situation and didn't feel so tired and sad.  I am grateful for that.  And thanks for your post and wow, I am so impressed with you!!!

[Anonymous]

I'm no expert, but it sounds like your mother has got a cocktail of other things wrong with her along with being an N

[glennis1953]

There are varying degrees of NPD, and her mother sounds like she's got a severe case of it.

Whatever's going on, it sounds like this woman is indeed NPD. The following quote is sooo typical:
 

And then she would explode..."YOU are not the only busy one....I am busy too! Do you think you are the only one with a job? You only think of yourself, etc, etc."

She's apparently not too busy to harrass her own daughter. One of the things my N-mother frequently says is "You only think of yourself," or "You couldn't be bothered...blah, blah, blah." If that were true, I would have cut off all contact with her years ago.

To the above quote, I would have said, "Well, if you're so busy, why are you wasting time bothering me? Get on with it, and let me get on with what I need to do."

To my mother's refrain that I only think of myself, I just smile smugly and reply that SOMEONE's got to, and it's about time. It sends her in a tizzy, because she isn't getting the reaction she wants at all.    And she doesn't know how to react. I don't care if she thinks I'm selfish.  Where she's concerned, I am. She made me that way, and that's the natural consequence of her behavior.

I just try to think of what I would do with a spoiled child. I don't expect to change her, but I do expect to protect my interests.

But with someone as extreme as Guest's mother, I'd just cut contact, get a restraining order and do whatever else is needed for her to get the picture that her behavior is NOT okay by anyone's standards, and will no longer be tolerated.