Making New Friends

[Twoapenny]

Okay, well I think I'm starting to get the hang of this friendship thing!

I've given a lot of thought to 'old' friends and whether or not I'm being reasonable/unreasonable/selfish/expecting too much and so on.  I've reversed situations to see what I would do in their shoes and wondered whether my reactions are of a codependent nature, over the top or whatever.  The things that I've been wondering about are:

People taking months to return my calls - I've thought about this from so many different angles and whichever way I look at this it is just plain bad manners if nothing else.  ON top of that it's a real kind of 'you are not important' signal and I've had enough of those in my life.  So I've decided the phone call slackers can go and ignore someone else's call now.

People not offering to help out - ever - I've thought about this loads and yes, people are busy, have work and family commitments (don't we all) but bottom line, if a friend of mine was raising a disabled child alone and I was married with healthy kids and two incomes then yes, I would offer to babysit every now and again and offer to help out if she was unwell.  I'd also be happy to visit her at home during the evening if that was easier for her rather than insisting she fit in with my plans and I've thought a lot about whether this is co-dependent but I think no, it's just helping a mate out and that's normal, I think?

People that never ring - I've some friends now I've not heard from for ten months or more.  I have stopped fretting about these people and am trying to put my energy into new people.

I am finding it difficult - sometimes the loneliness is so acute that it physically hurts.  But I am spending regular time now with some nice ladies I have met and I am trying to see more of people who are good and kind, they just live a long way away and it's not so easy to meet up.  But I think it's going in the right direction, although the friends I've lost still feels a bit painful.

[Hopalong]

If people don't ignore you for months, don't care enough to help, don't visit...I wonder if 'friends" is the right word?

The only other thing I thought of is -- do you ASK FOR WHAT YOU NEED?

People get so stuck and preoccupied that they give themselves permission I think unconsciously to let things (and people) slide.

If you are happily (not complainingly) assertive, ex: "Hi X, this is Tupp...sorry I missed you but I'd like you to call me back tonight or tomorrow. Talk to you soon!" If they ignore a reasonable request like that, then you're calling the wrong people.

Likewise, with the oblivious 2-earner: "Hi, I'd like to get together but I wanted to say that I need for you to come over here this time, because of ... (brief reason). I'm wondering if you'd be willing to do that next week?" And if that's a NO or excuses, or no return call, etc. -- another one bites the dust. (Foolish of them, but people waste good people all the time.)

And if that happens, good person, you carry on. You DO have a wonderful capacity for friendship. Go forth and find 'em!

Think of it like dating? I've been on dates with about 20 people this year. First or second dates only. And I'm not mad at them and they're not mad at me because I was real, and I kept it LIGHT until I had the chance to meet them and pay attention to how it felt, etc. I am not going to stop this time. If I keep it up for years, so it goes! I am still meeting and enjoying people. I'm not grabbing on.

Etc. If you ASK FOR WHAT YOU NEED (which is normal and okay) and then RELEASE THE OUTCOME (they get to decide whether they can or want to meet that need or not)...you've done all you can. And the river moves on and it will bring you new people over and over, and now and then, one of them in a bright little boat is going to smile and wave and invite you on board for a cuppa.

I sure would, were I lucky enough to live near you.

Hugs
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Oh Hopsie, dating!  That sounds like fun   Good for you, that might be the next thing I start getting into now the friendship thing is a bit easier

I've kind of done those things you suggest, not in exactly the same words but along those lines.  Don't get me wrong, I don't expect anyone to call me back within 24 hours, we all lead busy lives, I think and there are times I could phone someone but I know they're at work/putting the kids to bed/out for the evening - but I think longer than a couple of weeks without hearing back from someone is a bit near the mark and months is just ridiculous.  And yep, have asked people to come here rather than us going to them, come in the evening rather than meeting up during the day etc and the answer from most has either been no or I'll call you and then no call.

I think the thing that goes through my head as well is that I've done so much 'looking after' people in my life that I don't think I want to have to manage people and tell them what they should do (within reason).  you know what I mean, I'm sure!  I've got better at asking for what I need but I'm still not great at releasing the outcome - working on that!

And yes, it would be great if we didn't have that big stretch of water between us - thank heavens for the internet

[lighter]

Tup:

I think making different choices, no matter which, or how small, always feels painful to some degree.... at least it's uncomfortable.

Then there's that (I'm in so much discomfort I feel it's time to make a move) thing on top of it all, kwim?

It's not just missing your "friends," Tupp....

it's giving up the habits that have  sustained you.

You're mourning the loss of certain people, as well as the distraction factor of contacting them/being contacted/having certain expectations/expecting the relationships will become more fulfilling, IMO.

That's a lot to come to grips with, but as you say.....

you're cultivating something new.

Hopefully you'll have a few good friends in place, and get more comfortable with the empty spaces in between old and new relationshoips.

That's the thing....

you have to say NO to some things in order to have space for new things......

and that empty space is full of..........

just ourselves.

We learn about ourselves, sometimes very painful lessons, but become more comfortable in our own skin for the effort.

When we're more comfortable in our own skin, we're able to be better friends, and recognize healthier people/accept them/be comfortable with healthier people.

Does that make sense?

((((Tupp)))

Lighter

[Twoapenny]

Hi all,

I'm plodding my way through this - I'm enjoying myself, I'm keeping things light, I'm trying very hard not to jump in and do (control) everything as I have in the past and giving other people the opportunity to call, arrange things, come to visit (or not, as the case may be).  I'm happy with the way things are and I'm finding that this is all getting easier the more I do it.

There are a couple of tiny things that have niggled at me a bit.  I'm not sure why.  They aren't a big deal but my radar sort of over responded to them.  I'm not worried about it (or planning to do anything about it) but I'm just aware of it and wanted to put it down here and if it rings a bell with anyone else I'd love to know!

First thing is a very good friend who has asked to buy my son a very expensive Christmas present.  I've said yes - he'd love it - but expensive Christmas presents always leave me feeling a bit uneasy and I'm not really sure why.

They've also invited us to spend Christmas with them.  Again, I'm delighted that they've offered and have accepted but feel a bit uneasy.  I don't feel that comfortable with the thought of them doing all the work and providing everything, but when I've eaten at theirs in the past they usually give me back whatever I take over.  They also tend to cancel things at very short notice.  None of these things is a big deal at all and I'm kind of just ignoring it but didn't want to ignore the fact I do feel a bit uneasy about it, if you see what I mean!

I've mentioned before that I've been meeting a couple of mums for a coffee before our kids swimming lessons.  This has become a really regular thing and I really enjoy it.  Yesterday neither of them came for coffee and when I went down to swimming one of them said they'd been really worried about me because no-one had seen me.  Again, no biggie, I just found it a bit odd as I'd been where we normally would all be at that time of day so didn't get why they'd be worrying.

Anyway, I just wanted to get it down on paper, I'm just observing my feelings and then doing nothing as I don't think it's a big deal, it just seems to be triggering little things for some reason.

[lighter]

Hi Tupp:

It sounds like you're mindfully leaning into new ways of relating with others.

Sure, it's going to be uncomfortable letting someone else do all the work at Christmas, but look at it this way:

1)  you can jump in and help out in the ways that make you feel good, and surely it will be appreciated;

2)  it's OK to let others do for you.... it feels good for them, just like it feels good for you to do for others,kwim?

It's hard to get used to having others do for you.  Uncomfortable, I know,but necessary if you're going to have reciprocal relationships going forward.

As for the swim moms, that does sound a bit strange, but it doesn't mean it's about you.  Everyone has dragons to slay, and everyone has ups and downs. Sometimes the scary parts of our lives triggers other people's fears about what might happen to them.   You just don't know, so best not to conjure up the worst, kwim? 

So glad to read your update, Tupp: ) 

Lighter

[Hopalong]

This is really good Lighter...

it feels good for them, just like it feels good for you to do for others

Tupp, I think your "uneasy" is a feeling to recognize is like drizzle, weather wise. It's just weather.
I think it's a false alarm, just some residue from old fears.
You can be disappointed and you will be, because NO friend, old or new, will be perfect.

But ... you have to relax enough to let good happen. Just hold it lightly.
When good happens, it isn't the answer to everything. It doesn't hold dramatic meaning.
It's just...good. Okay to enjoy it, receive it, let it come, and let it go again.

You deserve some good but there's no mysterious quota of good that you'll get or lose
or capture or keep or have a little or have a lot of. There's no quota, nobody's dishing it out
or taking it back.

It's just you moving through the world, maybe a little more receptive to letting good happen to you.

Hope you can enjoy it!

love
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Thanks, you two!  I find I struggle with people a lot more when I'm finding life difficult in general.  I just get really annoyed over little things.  I start to feel like I'm kept in a little box, waiting for someone to take me out and play with me for a while, then put me away again when they're done.

A friend I haven't heard from in almost a year rang wanting to get together.  I just don't feel connections with people I don't speak to regularly any more.  I couldn't make the date she suggested and now she keeps phoning wanting to sort something out.  I'm torn between telling the truth and just ignoring her until she stops ringing.  Telling the truth feels like the right thing to do.  But I know from past experience telling the truth usually leads to loads more hassle, which puts me off.

Another friend made arrangements for a day out, then wanted to change all the arrangements because other plans had changed and she wanted to do other stuff as well.  It really irritated me, far more than it should have done, really.  I didn't change, instead we cancelled.  I just feel like it's always me that is flexible and keeps changing things.  I find it really tiring.

Another friend took two weeks to get back to me about something and then wanted to do it straight away.  I don't know how to explain how I feel, I know it's out of proportion to what's actually happening but I feel constantly invisible and then expected to perform.  I feel so lonely but then I find being around people such hard work that I just don't want to do it a lot of the time.

Sorry, just needed a moan.

[BonesMS]

Thanks, you two!  I find I struggle with people a lot more when I'm finding life difficult in general.  I just get really annoyed over little things.  I start to feel like I'm kept in a little box, waiting for someone to take me out and play with me for a while, then put me away again when they're done.

A friend I haven't heard from in almost a year rang wanting to get together.  I just don't feel connections with people I don't speak to regularly any more.  I couldn't make the date she suggested and now she keeps phoning wanting to sort something out.  I'm torn between telling the truth and just ignoring her until she stops ringing.  Telling the truth feels like the right thing to do.  But I know from past experience telling the truth usually leads to loads more hassle, which puts me off.

Another friend made arrangements for a day out, then wanted to change all the arrangements because other plans had changed and she wanted to do other stuff as well.  It really irritated me, far more than it should have done, really.  I didn't change, instead we cancelled.  I just feel like it's always me that is flexible and keeps changing things.  I find it really tiring.

Another friend took two weeks to get back to me about something and then wanted to do it straight away.  I don't know how to explain how I feel, I know it's out of proportion to what's actually happening but I feel constantly invisible and then expected to perform.  I feel so lonely but then I find being around people such hard work that I just don't want to do it a lot of the time.

Sorry, just needed a moan.

Tupp,

You're not alone.  I'm struggling with that now, too.

It feels like....."If someone can't U-u-u-se me, then they have NO USE for me!"  I'm invisible until they want something.  Then once they get what THEY WANT, then I'm told to "get lost".

Know what I mean?

[Twoapenny]

Thanks, you two!  I find I struggle with people a lot more when I'm finding life difficult in general.  I just get really annoyed over little things.  I start to feel like I'm kept in a little box, waiting for someone to take me out and play with me for a while, then put me away again when they're done.

A friend I haven't heard from in almost a year rang wanting to get together.  I just don't feel connections with people I don't speak to regularly any more.  I couldn't make the date she suggested and now she keeps phoning wanting to sort something out.  I'm torn between telling the truth and just ignoring her until she stops ringing.  Telling the truth feels like the right thing to do.  But I know from past experience telling the truth usually leads to loads more hassle, which puts me off.

Another friend made arrangements for a day out, then wanted to change all the arrangements because other plans had changed and she wanted to do other stuff as well.  It really irritated me, far more than it should have done, really.  I didn't change, instead we cancelled.  I just feel like it's always me that is flexible and keeps changing things.  I find it really tiring.

Another friend took two weeks to get back to me about something and then wanted to do it straight away.  I don't know how to explain how I feel, I know it's out of proportion to what's actually happening but I feel constantly invisible and then expected to perform.  I feel so lonely but then I find being around people such hard work that I just don't want to do it a lot of the time.

Sorry, just needed a moan.

Tupp,

You're not alone.  I'm struggling with that now, too.

It feels like....."If someone can't U-u-u-se me, then they have NO USE for me!"  I'm invisible until they want something.  Then once they get what THEY WANT, then I'm told to "get lost".

Know what I mean?

I do Bonesie, I do.

It's one of those things that I struggle with.  I know I am very sensitive to other people - overly so, in some cases.  And I do understand and appreciate that most people have busy lives and are juggling jobs, kids, family, chores and have their own problems to deal with as well.  So I try not to focus on it all too much.  And I suppose that not having a family or a partner means that I do want more from my friends than other people do, perhaps?  I don't know.  But at the minute it all feels like too much of an effort.

There's a chap who runs one of the groups we go to, it's a sports group for disabled people.  This chap is ex-army and so very hot on people being on time and being where they're supposed to be.  He can't understand how people can live their lives not being in the right place at the right time.  I feel a bit like that.  I don't get why it's impossible for some people to return a phone call or let me know whether or not they want to do something.  I don't mean instantly, but I think within a week is reasonable in most circumstances, particularly as we now have phone, text and email.  I don't get people changing arrangements that have already been organised for their convenience.  In an emergency it's perfectly understandable but other than that I just find it annoying.  And I've just got to a point where I feel like I can't be arsed with it.  Partly because I do find I'm quite an out of sight, out of mind person.  If I don't hear back I start focusing on something else.  Then when they do call I sort of feel like I've moved past that point.  I don't really know how to explain it.

Anyhow.  Sorry again for all the moaning!  Are you feeling any better yet?

[BonesMS]

Thanks, you two!  I find I struggle with people a lot more when I'm finding life difficult in general.  I just get really annoyed over little things.  I start to feel like I'm kept in a little box, waiting for someone to take me out and play with me for a while, then put me away again when they're done.

A friend I haven't heard from in almost a year rang wanting to get together.  I just don't feel connections with people I don't speak to regularly any more.  I couldn't make the date she suggested and now she keeps phoning wanting to sort something out.  I'm torn between telling the truth and just ignoring her until she stops ringing.  Telling the truth feels like the right thing to do.  But I know from past experience telling the truth usually leads to loads more hassle, which puts me off.

Another friend made arrangements for a day out, then wanted to change all the arrangements because other plans had changed and she wanted to do other stuff as well.  It really irritated me, far more than it should have done, really.  I didn't change, instead we cancelled.  I just feel like it's always me that is flexible and keeps changing things.  I find it really tiring.

Another friend took two weeks to get back to me about something and then wanted to do it straight away.  I don't know how to explain how I feel, I know it's out of proportion to what's actually happening but I feel constantly invisible and then expected to perform.  I feel so lonely but then I find being around people such hard work that I just don't want to do it a lot of the time.

Sorry, just needed a moan.

Tupp,

You're not alone.  I'm struggling with that now, too.

It feels like....."If someone can't U-u-u-se me, then they have NO USE for me!"  I'm invisible until they want something.  Then once they get what THEY WANT, then I'm told to "get lost".

Know what I mean?

I do Bonesie, I do.

It's one of those things that I struggle with.  I know I am very sensitive to other people - overly so, in some cases.  And I do understand and appreciate that most people have busy lives and are juggling jobs, kids, family, chores and have their own problems to deal with as well.  So I try not to focus on it all too much.  And I suppose that not having a family or a partner means that I do want more from my friends than other people do, perhaps?  I don't know.  But at the minute it all feels like too much of an effort.

There's a chap who runs one of the groups we go to, it's a sports group for disabled people.  This chap is ex-army and so very hot on people being on time and being where they're supposed to be.  He can't understand how people can live their lives not being in the right place at the right time.  I feel a bit like that.  I don't get why it's impossible for some people to return a phone call or let me know whether or not they want to do something.  I don't mean instantly, but I think within a week is reasonable in most circumstances, particularly as we now have phone, text and email.  I don't get people changing arrangements that have already been organised for their convenience.  In an emergency it's perfectly understandable but other than that I just find it annoying.  And I've just got to a point where I feel like I can't be arsed with it.  Partly because I do find I'm quite an out of sight, out of mind person.  If I don't hear back I start focusing on something else.  Then when they do call I sort of feel like I've moved past that point.  I don't really know how to explain it.

Anyhow.  Sorry again for all the moaning!  Are you feeling any better yet?

Thanks, Tupp.

I have good days and bad days.

I really identify with what you said.  Regarding the ex-army chap, I can understand his annoyance especially when he's planned something, given his schedule, and, invariably, there is always a late-comer who shows up either in the middle or toward the end and expects everyone to accommodate THEM!  I've known late-comers who will show up HOURS late for something and demand attention the instant they walk in the door...ALL THE TIME!  I've watched this done at a party, where the host and hostess were BUSY attending to other guests, when the "QUEEN" ANNOUNCED HER ARRIVAL and EXPECTED EVERYONE to STOP AND ATTEND HER!  (Guess what?  Didn't happen!  The result was that she was NEVER invited again!  The idiot who pulled that stunt was NDoofus, my EX-friend.)

This may sound weird, but at times I feel like I want to knock on a neighbor's door and ask:  "Do you want to come out and play?"  Everyone's so busy that nobody wants to do anything.

[Meh]

I'm so tired I just want to go to sleep and not play with anybody. What a grump.

[Twoapenny]

I'm so tired I just want to go to sleep and not play with anybody. What a grump.

Lol well that's just how I feel today Green so you are in good company.  I think that there's so much going on - my son's disability, my own health problems, dealing with this paperwork, all the emotional stuff that comes up with it and the ordinary every day things like running a home - that I just genuinely haven't got the energy for other people.  At all.  Maybe that's it?  Maybe other people aren't so constantly knackered that they don't mind faffing around making arrangements over and over again, whereas those of us already dealing with other stuff just can't be arsed?  Who knows?

Bones, I hope you get more good days and bad.  And someone to play with   Yes, I know people like that.  I have a friend - who I try and see less of now - who just last week wrote a date down on my calendar without asking me whether I was free or whether I wanted to meet with her and the other person she'll be with.   And I don't want to, the other friend is someone else I rarely hear from and I just don't want to spend time with her anymore.  I honestly feel scared about saying that.  But I feel I'm being deceitful if I don't tell the truth.

[BonesMS]

"Bones, I hope you get more good days and bad.  And someone to play with Smile  Yes, I know people like that.  I have a friend - who I try and see less of now - who just last week wrote a date down on my calendar without asking me whether I was free or whether I wanted to meet with her and the other person she'll be with.   And I don't want to, the other friend is someone else I rarely hear from and I just don't want to spend time with her anymore.  I honestly feel scared about saying that.  But I feel I'm being deceitful if I don't tell the truth."

Thanks, Tupp.

From my perspective, you're not being deceitful when the other person REFUSES to HEAR YOU!

[Twoapenny]

"Bones, I hope you get more good days and bad.  And someone to play with Smile  Yes, I know people like that.  I have a friend - who I try and see less of now - who just last week wrote a date down on my calendar without asking me whether I was free or whether I wanted to meet with her and the other person she'll be with.   And I don't want to, the other friend is someone else I rarely hear from and I just don't want to spend time with her anymore.  I honestly feel scared about saying that.  But I feel I'm being deceitful if I don't tell the truth."

Thanks, Tupp.

From my perspective, you're not being deceitful when the other person REFUSES to HEAR YOU!

Thanks, Bones.  I think I'm starting to get my head around it all a bit more now.  I think what I want in a friendship is equality?  There will always be times when one person is more capable than the other for all sorts of reasons.  But I think I'd got to the point where I felt like I was making a lot more effort than other people were.  I think I also still feel a bit as if I don't have a right to choose who my friends are.  I think I've mentioned in this that I've always been very passive in friendships and I've sort of gone along with other people regardless of whether or not I want to be around them and/or enjoy spending time with them.  I've also got to a point, I think, where I can see that there are some people who I did/do like but our lives have got to a point now where the relationship just isn't sustainable.  I suppose friendships are like romantic relationships in the sense that sometimes it just runs its course, there isn't always a big reason or a situation.

But I think what I do want in my life are friends that make a similar amount of effort to see or spend time with me and who enjoy my company and aren't just filling time until something or someone else comes along.  I think that's happened a lot to me, largely because I just let myself go along with things.  So I'm making an effort to connect more with other people.  I think there is also that comfort zone of doing something even though you don't really want to anymore?  So I'm trying to get out of that now as well.