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any savvy dogsters here?

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lighter:

--- Quote from: Hopalong on July 17, 2013, 10:34:25 AM --- But if this person won't call me
and wants nothing, I think that should stop now too.

Well, you're honoring her request, the way I see it.

It's sad because she's unwell, unemployed and needs help.
It's just that she doesn't want it from me. And I accept it.

((((Hops))))

Anyway, back to pooch.

All in all, given that, I think she's a cupcake. And I am discovering
I can direct and guide her without some faux-ferocious dominant
act, which isn't natural to me. Mostly, cheerfully redirecting her
attention and training her to always look to me for leadership,
seems to be the idea. No nonsense and not anxious does it best.

Well, remember Ceasar's Dog Whisperer show, and channel being the pack leader.  The leader isn't always cheerful.  Sometimes the leader is all snappy fingers, and serious faces if I recall correctly.  Maybe even a finger jab in the side here and there to get things back on track.  I went through the same sort of thing with my oldest child as a pre schooler. Well not the finger pokes, but I had to reassure her outright it wasn't her job to keep things on track, the adults had that job.  If that child didn't feel the adult in charge had things in control, that child stepped up and tried to take over.... lots of anxiety about it.  YOU have to let this dog know you're in charge, I suspect, so the dog can relax and be a follower?  Oh heck, I seriously do not know, Hops but I'm sending you pack leader vibes so you and your pooch can relax into a lovely layed back life together.
Wish us luck, it's a happy project. She did great on a challenging
long walk this morning, with scary dogs and strangers running
and a big roaring schoolbus. Just praised her lots and we kept on
going. Now she'll sleep all day long and not be stressed.
It's a wonderful feeling to get up and out and exercise our furry friends, knowing how relaxed and happy they'll be the rest of the day.  I really don't like putting it off till later in the day. 

Good luck, and may the leader vibe be with you.

Lighter
Hops


--- End quote ---

sKePTiKal:

--- Quote ---And I am discovering
I can direct and guide her without some faux-ferocious dominant
act, which isn't natural to me. Mostly, cheerfully redirecting her
attention and training her to always look to me for leadership,
seems to be the idea.
--- End quote ---

SOMETIMES, this works with some kids, too. Sometimes, it doesn't.

Last weekend, there were a series of cheesy "God" movies on the tube. It's hot and humid here, and so that keeps me housebound, as I try to adjust to this climate. (Winter is much better, even when the weather is foul and bitter cold, off the ocean.) We watched Evan Almighty again - which I think is my favorite one; it's also the cheesiest. Bruce Almighty came on right after - I think it was a Morgan Freeman marathon - and the relevant bit here... is when Bruce has the Almighty's power... but he still can't get the love of his life to love him, too. God tells him: the job and powers don't come without certain conditions... like Free Will.

By now, I think we all get that your D's illness is probably getting in the way of her really exercising her Free Will. It's got her all wrapped up in the demands of the illness. My youngest is kind of struggling with that, too. It's really hard - even with the gentle reminders that it's OK - for her to admit to herself, accurately assess the situation, and then ask for help. We're workin' on it. I have to remind her that pushing people away, isn't what she really wants to do. I sure hope your D comes to understand that "help" is like energy... the old E=MC2 equation... giving it doesn't use it up; it just gets passed on when she's in a position to help someone else. And it's not a "control" thing, a boundary violation, or a projection thing, either... it's simply gently guiding her along her own path... and finding the right way to get free of the tangled wrappings of the illness, that's got her all locked away in endless, relentless battle. Help is trying to give them the tools to do it themselves.

Self-preservation comes in, too. I've been screamed at on the phone, based on some misunderstanding going on in A's confused mind. After telling her, I get angry when I'm yelled at like that - and hurt too - if she continues, I simply hang up on her. When I had a chance to get a word in edgewise, I explained: I have to protect the me that gets hurt. And I have to protect YOU, from the righteous anger that will erupt in self-defense, if you don't respect this one interaction rule. So, yelling at me like this, is always going to get you cut off - got it? Then, I pat her on the head and tell her I understand why she's angry - but flinging poo at everyone about it, like some howler monkey - kinda prevents people from getting close enough to help.

Where you are is a lot worse, Hops. I think the pooch will help a LOT. What kind is she? Another mix that includes beagle?  :D

Hopalong:
Thanks, Lighter, for the comment about the phone bill. Literally, that's what she said. Practically, it's self-sabotage if she snips that lifeline. So I think I'll ask my T about it Monday...and let him help me think it through. My options are:
1) Quietly continue to pay it w/o acknowledgment as I have been, for my own peace of mind (but perhaps risking new fury if she notices or wants a new --more current --power struggle)
2) Communicate (which she does not want but which would reach her) a brief text, such as:
I understand you don't want gifts, and would like to know if my continuing to pay for your cell phone is welcome.
OR
I would like to continue paying for your phone if that's okay. Rather than cut off that support abruptly, if I don't hear from you, my plan will be to keep on through the end of the year. If you want me to stop now, you can let me know. (That way, if she is silent, I know what to do.)
3) Cut it off in pique, or because I choose to literally take her at her ranting word: "I don't want anything from you." It is likely the illness talking but it's also what she said.
That's what I want to walk through with my T. It's so FF-ing complicated!
But the one thing I did see, after this pummeling exchange of nasty texts, is that she's not better, her demonization of me has hardened and become even more extreme. She draws some strength from it, and rages the moment her control of contact is messed with even by a text. I've sent about 4 in two long years. And one letter. But that, to her, is "stalking" (because she posted her address on Amazon and was furious that I had used it to send the sole letter--heartfelt amends letter--to).
It is a no-win situation, and regarding her phone (she's unemployed, NEEDS one) -- I'll just try to figure out the least-bad option.

Back to pooch. Whew. MUCH easier than child.
Thanks PR and Lighter for all the encouragement.

I have read quite a bit and it turns out there is a wide challenge among some experts to Cecar Milan's philosophy...that's where the "cheerful redirection and leadership" rather than "alpha pack-leader dominance leadership" thing comes in. It fits better for me, so I'm working in the latter [edit: whoops, I meant former] way. There are lots of specifics, and it's not passive at all. The attitude is no-nonsense and I'd exert swift physical control on a time in emergency, but this more collegial approach seems to be helping. Some believe it's a bit wacky to try to act out being an animal in a pack, because as human beings with dogs, it really is a different kind of relationship.

Anyhow. We'll see how it all turns out. I'm happy to be doing this.

Is she my substitute daughter? Hah. The thought has occurred...

And PR -- I get you, about what real help is. I am so glad you still have contact with A., so you can offer the kind that is sane. Much light and hope that she continues to find her way... Any news on the kids?

love
Hops

lighter:
Hops:

So glad to read you're making headway with the darling dog.  I hope you can work into a lovely routine you both enjoy.

sKep:  I'll be keeping you and Hops in my prayers. 

Lighter

Hopalong:
I took her downtown to the pedestrian main drag last night
and we sat at a cafe. It was so sweeeeeet. She'd clearly never
seen such a parade of people and dogs before and though she
was tense, she stayed alert and interested, and even coped
well when a couple of strangers stopped and gently pet her
(they asked first). I was proud as punch!

And it was a wonderful way to end my own evening, sitting
in the twilight with her, sipping a brew. What a difference
having another being to go "out" with.

The cafe folks downtown here are so welcoming to dogs.
They even bring out special metal water bowls. It's a very
happy scene, with strollig musicians, art hung in trees,
just my favorite thing about this place.

I'm at the point where I can't imagine not keeping her
(of course). We're a good match.

xo
Hops

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