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Heist on Something....

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lighter:
Oy, and....

::Thinking carefully before typing::.

When we don't want to know what's happening to us, we become confused,IME. 

I interpret this situation as opportunity, Hops.  Talk about this, then listen to his responses.  Believe him if he's entitled, short and irritated over not getting what he wants.  This is the Jelly moon dating phase.....everyone pointing their toes, best foot forward and all that.   Believe him when he shows you who he is, bc he's unlikely to become kinder, more caring than he is now, IME   

Be your own advocate. What would you want for your best friend? 

And.....He might regret making you feel pressured.fearful.  He may be clueless, blinded by what he assumes is mutual lust, etc.  If you don't talk about it, he can't tell you his truth.

 And we're strong, Hops.  We can put up with, explain away and excuse a lot.  The frog in the pot is so true.  Learning the truth later won't make it better, IME.  Maybe worse.

 If we suspend judgement and fear, when we have the fearful conversations...
If we approach instead with curiosity only...  if we lean into  trust we can handle whatever truth may come, what will happen?

  Lean into gratitude for your instincts, and ability to efficiently base decisions on the truth.

 Remember.... radical acceptance, Hops.  Remember.

Maybe security, and relationship outweighs the negative in this relationship?  You won't know until you see the truth, whatever it is. 

Asking men for their opinions is easy IF you suspend judgement, IME.

It gets easier if you respectfully appreciate their honesty, no matter how you feel about it, IMO. 

They'll tell you their truth if they aren't reading your negative facial expressions and body language I've found.  Appearing very curious, bordering on fascinated by their opinions no matter what they say, helps channel real honesty.  We can't ask leading questions, with huge expectations, and expect total honesty. 

You don't have to eat this elephant in one bite.  Ask questions, listen, suspend judgement and think about his responses before addressing them at another time.  Take pressure off yourself..... getting to know someone takes time, and you have the right to give yourself however much time you require.

Breath.  Gather information.  You can figure this out, and you will.  In the meantime​, tell this man what your boundaries are, and insist he respect them.....do it without fretting or guilt.  Stick to them.  Don't budge.  Try to use humor.  Give him opportunity to explain his feelings.  Dies he want to know how you feel?  Does he care?

If he continues to cross boundaries you have the option  if restating the boundary....

"I'm not ready to give up making out like teenagers only yet. If you move past that again, I'll know you aren't interested in building a relationship with me."
Then listen to what he says and does. 

I'm tapping this out on my phone, so lacking brevity here. 

Lighter










lighter:
One more thing.....

A man who ignores a woman's NO.....who tries to change it into a YES is waving a red flag.

Don't ignore it.  Face it, and know you have every right to do so.

:: nodding::..

It's ok if he pouts or goes away in a bad mood.....he has to honor the boundary.

You have to endure your discomfort with his displeasure....this isn't yours to fix.  Giving in, to keep the peace, isn't an option.  He has to figure out if he cares about your needs and feelings, even if he doesn't get what he wants short term.

He might have to figure this out the hard way.

 You might decide he's not worth the bother.

Lighter

Hopalong:
Oh my gosh.

Again, thank you all so MUCH.

This deep degree of reflection, insight, and encouragement is absolutely beyond price. I can't even express it. I would have to be in the world's greatest therapy group with trusted comrades for years to even begin to be able to verbalize to you how helpful this is.

I am so grateful. I have read and re-read all of your posts and am processing them quite deeply right now. Each of you has said something (multiple somethings) that is SO strengthening, insightful and powerfully useful. I am just amazed at the power of it.

I feel not alone, that my team of Amazons are flapping their [feathery, leathery, brass?] wings all around me for the next time I deal with him. I have a lot to take in from what you've said and it's all like some kind of healing power potion. Thank you.

It's just an extraordinary gift, and you each should know how profoundly it's appreciated.

Will update as soon as I know or figure out or experience the next ... whatever it will be.

Much love,
Hops

sKePTiKal:
It seems there's a unamimous consensus here, and I'm not gonna break it either. I have a BUNCH more to say, but on the phone with realtor and have to go get the mail. Back in a few minutes.

Yeah, my life has been like this all week. LOL. You'd think I was trying to do business over the holidays or something.

OK, the matter at hand:

Look, all's fair in love and war. So, you're gaining experience in what HE thinks is fair. That said, if you "don't wanna" - you truly DO. NOT. OWE. HIM. ANYTHING. Remember what I said about guys seeing relationships - especially dating - in terms of transactions? This is it. Up to this point, you've enjoyed each other's company. And that is IT. If for any reason you are now uncomfortable - you can postpone the next date, make it long enough to sort yourself out, whatever... there is no contract you'd be breaking. You don't need to blame him, either.

You are enjoying the "getting to know you phase" without much that could be called sex. Ain't nothin' wrong with that! He doesn't like it - tough titty. (that was intentional...)

You have to set the pace for YOU; what you're comfortable with. That's in your job description. And what I'm hearing is something I'm acquainted with - that reluctance. It's a complicated, knotty ball of yarn/issues really. And I think you DO need to pull back long enough, that you have time to sort it out - with your T, talking to friends, the Amazons... Whatever works. When you've identified the issues, then you can decide what, if anything needs to be done about them. They're yours; and probably don't have a thing to do with him, even if how he is behaving triggered the feelings.

The word "negotiate" has several meanings. And it's applicable here. It CAN mean - the same thing as "navigate", as in - the soldier carefully negotiated the minefield. (I'm rolling my eyes at myself; dang martial metaphors.) But it also means to find terms through proposals/offers that are agreeable to one or more parties, in order to strike a bargain, make a deal or create a contract. You need to negotiate this tricky area about yourself WITH HIM. So, my advice isn't to stop seeing him. If you DO take a little time to postpone a date... make sure you suggest a specific alternative. That way he knows you're just taking a little breather. IF he truly cares about you, he'll accept and understand. It means, signifies absolutely nothing in the long run... about the relationship; it's just what you need to do for YOU, right now. Till the butterflies calm down.

So, that's it for you AND B. Now, for Hops by herself... and some more speculative stuff.

I'm having to grudgingly accept that there is more than "one me"... not as in multiple personalities, but each "me" deals with different things. The physical me is still trying to improve habits to stay healthy and feel better. The emotional me - well, she's a right sensitive thing; delicate even; prone to the vapors even! Go figure. The sexual me... manifests in a lot of different ways - intellectually, physically and emotionally. And she's a hot mess, given my history. "Conflicted" is the kindest adjective I could use. I can't let her make decisions, any more than I can the poor sensitive emotional basketcase. But they ALL need to be consulted in decision-making. That may not happen fast enough for a spontaneous situation, and someone waiting on me to say yes or no.

And when I need to process, and the situation demands a "right now" decision... the best thing for me to do is say I need to think it over. Buy myself some time. Consult with the "muses" and see if I can sort out from the jumble, just what is really my issue with "yes" or "no" here. See where I'm too hard (or judgemental) on myself... where there are real differences that might could be negotiated into a mutually acceptable "step" in whatever direction it is, I think that OVERALL I want to go.

The thing about seeing relationships as a transaction? Too often, knowing this about some men - I get all hung up in that concept. Bent out of shape. So, negotiation is also a transaction, but it's where you're refining definitions, boundaries, what you each want, etc... acting as your own advocate. Not all men do this... and the ones that do, do so in different degrees. So, maybe it's better to think in terms of expectations - yours first, then what you THINK his are, and ask him. Again. Ya gotta be able to FEEL it's OK to talk to him about things like this. It's a basic pre-requisite, IMO.

It's perfectly OK to feel how you felt. You didn't like it. He needs to know that in a non-blaming way. Perhaps he'll modify this in the future. But if he is a typical "engineer-type"... he NEEDS this feedback from you in order to do so. He wouldn't necessarily be able to "read" your reactions and come to a correct understanding based on emotional intelligence or mind-reading.

So, take a "Hops Date" or weekend... just for you. I don't think he's going anywhere, but you can make it clear you don't WANT him to, by suggesting a different date to get together.

Twoapenny:
You will know what to do, Hops, you're a wise owl, you listen to yourself, you take time to think and ponder and observe and it will all serve you well - I just know how it feels when someone or something knocks you off course a bit and it takes a bit of time to get back on the path - having people to help you refocus helps (as I know when you all do it for me) :) xx

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