Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Heist on Something....
Hopalong:
Absolutely true for me, Amber. I don't think you're a "hot mess" at all. I believe strongly there's always a LOGIC behind emotions and reactions, even when they are frustrating or baffling at the time you're weathering them.
You gave Mike so much; I am absolutely positive there is no debt unpaid. You are very reflective and you honor him in how you think it through.
I agreed so much also with two things you pointed out: The difficulty in SPEAKING, in the moment, what one feels and needs. (Don't get me going on female socialization to not know how, or be on a delayed timer about it.) And also, fear of enmeshment. That is a huge thing for me, because the sorrow of loneliness has been equally matched over time by the satisfactions of freedom.
To have this well-intentioned man smiling and pressing his way into My Space, even though I've made a conscious decision that if other signals and signs and sensations tell me if I don't want a lonely old age I do need to accept that wanting a partner means developing some porosity about My Space -- there is a big huge resistance in myself about it.
One can dream of a seamless, peaceful transition into a new third entity of "We," but in reality it's a jerky, bruising, stumbling process. For me it is. But so far, this day, worth trying. In case of happiness.
Thank you, for your stories and your insights, which put the PT in APT.
love,
Hops
Hopalong:
--- Quote ---...there was a cadence to our life that felt right, and I was a very happy woman in a reciprocal relationship with a peer. Not King Baby, or a taker/ exploiter personality, which happens sometimes to those of us who feel we need to prove our worth....
--- End quote ---
Lighter, this should be on billboards in every town. I am so happy you had that kind of a relationship with your B. I don't know when/how that went away, or if he was an early love, but I'm glad you had it, because you have an internal model that is very strong for what is not just acceptable, but good.
I'd buy a round to have been a fly on the wall for the dialogue you mentioned. The verbal thing that put an unequivocal boundary in place, with no ambiguity. (And how amazing he responded, and became your teenager....)
Your spotting sly put-downs and criticisms as designed to undermine and huge flags of near-evil resonate with me completely. I am not yet sure, due to not quite enough time spent nor post-honeymoon-manners spats sorted or things experienced together...whether B resorts to that or has that in his character.
I promise, if I hear something like that, I really believe I'll see it and extricate. I could not agree with you more what those casual, toneless put-downs (that sound neutral in the tone of voice) really convey. Cruelty. And if that surfaced I would run like a rabbit, not remain to debate.
Those kinds of remarks make me shudder, and I'm grateful I have at least THAT self-protective reflex.
Hops
Hopalong:
I hear you about compliments, Tupp. It's hard to sort out when they're meant as enthusiastic affirmations of one's appeal versus knee-jerk judgments (even positive remarks can read as garden-variety judgments -- it so depends on the tone and context) about one's ranking on the social scale of female acceptability.
B regarded me the other night (the night that ended weirdly) and stated in a flat kind of way, "You look about 60." I really had nothing to say in response. Didn't feel interested, didn't particularly like the remark but wasn't insulted. Didn't perceive it as a compliment because I don't care. Just thought, "Oh, that's uninteresting."
It did not matter to me one bit what female-appearance-age-number he had at that moment strolling through his brain. (It was a boring and meaningless thing to say. It was...assessing --perhaps trying to compliment but in that moment, didn't feel that way--a commodity.) I didn't take offense because I didn't perceive it as personal. I think it was just a result of him living as a powerful, successful, male in this culture for many many years. Sorry for that, not my job to fix.
I'll never undo all his conditioning so I figure it's a pick your battles moment. I wasn't interested in that one because it belongs to him. I'm generally fine about my age and appearance and if he wants to run a spreadsheet about it, he can waste his own time. We have things to unpack when they affect US. But that was like a moment of out-loud inner monologue that only revealed a weakness in his thinking, imo. (If he makes a similar remark, I will tell him simply that I'd rather he kept any other-than-positive assessments of my appearance to himself, and I'll offer the same.)
I remember a GOOD moment I had with a narcissist BF when he made a critical remark about me having a "back problem" in the sense that this was on an invisible list of reasons I likely wouldn't qualify as "the one" for him. I remember with pride (lesson learned late) getting up immediately, and saying to him clearly, "You never, ever criticize someone for something they cannot help. Anymore than I should criticize you for going bald or having the after-effects of prostate surgery."
I was containing myself; I was angry. Because that after-effect was exactly what you'd imagine, and it would never have occurred to me to fling that, which he could not help, in his face. That was the moment I realized he was cruel and I viscerally wanted no more to do with him. I was grateful.
HOO-AHH!
Hops
Twoapenny:
--- Quote from: Hopalong on December 24, 2017, 02:50:53 PM ---I hear you about compliments, Tupp. It's hard to sort out when they're meant as enthusiastic affirmations of one's appeal versus knee-jerk judgments (even positive remarks can read as garden-variety judgments -- it so depends on the tone and context) about one's ranking on the social scale of female acceptability.
B regarded me the other night (the night that ended weirdly) and stated in a flat kind of way, "You look about 60." I really had nothing to say in response. Didn't feel interested, didn't particularly like the remark but wasn't insulted. Didn't perceive it as a compliment because I don't care. Just thought, "Oh, that's uninteresting."
It did not matter to me one bit what female-appearance-age-number he had at that moment strolling through his brain. (It was a boring and meaningless thing to say. It was...assessing --perhaps trying to compliment but in that moment, didn't feel that way--a commodity.) I didn't take offense because I didn't perceive it as personal. I think it was just a result of him living as a powerful, successful, male in this culture for many many years. Sorry for that, not my job to fix.
I'll never undo all his conditioning so I figure it's a pick your battles moment. I wasn't interested in that one because it belongs to him. I'm generally fine about my age and appearance and if he wants to run a spreadsheet about it, he can waste his own time. We have things to unpack when they affect US. But that was like a moment of out-loud inner monologue that only revealed a weakness in his thinking, imo. (If he makes a similar remark, I will tell him simply that I'd rather he kept any other-than-positive assessments of my appearance to himself, and I'll offer the same.)
I remember a GOOD moment I had with a narcissist BF when he made a critical remark about me having a "back problem" in the sense that this was on an invisible list of reasons I likely wouldn't qualify as "the one" for him. I remember with pride (lesson learned late) getting up immediately, and saying to him clearly, "You never, ever criticize someone for something they cannot help. Anymore than I should criticize you for going bald or having the after-effects of prostate surgery."
I was containing myself; I was angry. Because that after-effect was exactly what you'd imagine, and it would never have occurred to me to fling that, which he could not help, in his face. That was the moment I realized he was cruel and I viscerally wanted no more to do with him. I was grateful.
HOO-AHH!
Hops
--- End quote ---
I didn't mean it to sound like compliments about physical stuff are bad, just that, as you didn't seem comfortable with hearing he could barely restrain himself, it may be that he's got that mindset of 'women need to know they're pretty or they can't cope' (which I think is something our consumer driven society hammers into all of us from an early age to make us buy skin cream :) ). Kind of trying to give him an out - I'm hoping this all turns out peachy :) I get what you say about not being interested in comments about the age you look or your appearance in general; I must admit I tend to take comments about physical appearance with a pinch of salt because I think they're easy to make and can easily be insincere - whereas if someone compliments me on something I've done or a way I've coped with something, for example, I feel euphoric because I feel like they're really getting me - getting to know me, understanding me, seeing what I do and noticing it's not easy. But like I say, I think we're programmed to focus on the superficial stuff from a young age. And I have a tendency to over think things (really, Tup, you hide that so well ;) ). And well done for skipping over that other boyfriend. A list of reasons you don't measure up - he sounds like a charmer :) Zoiks. Carrie Fisher said something about criticism she received for daring to age over the last thirty years (when the Star Wars film came out) something about youth and beauty aren't achievements, they're just there. I forget exactly how she phrased it now but she was spot on, in my book :) xx
Hopalong:
Yes, he does do some unnecessary "managing" I think. It's like sometimes instead of just saying how he feels, he makes a pronouncement about it. Like, the executive speaks. I dunno, it's just his style. I'm not fishing for or needing a host of compliments. I'm very tuned into the fact that age is doing its job and neither he nor I are going to look like something to alert the media about when we get down to things.
I'd rather keep my focus on the vibes. If they keep growing and are kind and happy most of the time, the rest will be fine. Last night was a big relief because we just relaxed together after a while, like old shoes. It took me a long time to feel some ease but it was a nice feeling when I got there. His decision to give me space made all the difference. A friendly old-shoes with occasional dancing kind of physical relationship is a realistic notion, I think, and the idea doesn't grieve me. I'll enjoy intimacy with him, I hope, but I think the relationship will be built more out of things like movies and trips and just the day to day. I'll find out, one encounter at a time. Still too early to be sure.
I really am bored by anybody who focuses too much on appearance. So far, he hasn't. At our ages, it would just seem silly. I think the happiest older couples have found other things and adventures to focus on too, whereas when I was young, sex was the main event.
This thread has been amazing for me.
xxoo
Hops
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