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Heist on Something....

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Twoapenny:
I look forward to reading more later, Hops, and I think the way you are managing and processing all of this (and responding to different situations) is completely normal, given everything you've been through over the years (and for what it's worth, I don't think anything you're feeling is abnormal - anxiety at the start of a new relationship is something I think most people can identify with).  I am hoping all signs are good ones; I know I am in the 'take it all with a pinch of salt and wait and see what happens' category but I think you know yourself well enough to spot things - you've been very observant and very honest with him (and yes, I think working in an all male environment would lead to different sorts of jokes - I find the conversation if I'm out with a group of mostly male friends is very different to a mixed group or if I'm chatting one on one to a male friend, and the same goes for all female groups - there are things we feel more comfortable joking about in different types of company).  I've got my fingers crossed for good things :) xx

lighter:
Hi Hops:

Two things....

Trusting again doesn't have to include huge risk.  I understand the harsh effects if poor choices regarding what turns out to be an unsafe husband and father of our children.  That's about worst case scenario in romance.

At this time of life, it's more about risk management, without limiting opportunity for growth, and opportunity.

You may not have control over who and what B is, but you do have control over your intuition, and what you risk as you navigate this journey.

Best case....B is attached to you in all ways, loyal, and driven to give as well as receive in a recipicol lifelong pairing out if respect and live for you.

I can picture many in betweens, but worst case scenario involves his being a Jekyll Hide pd, with you limiting the harm through prudent decisions designed to mitigate the negative possibilities you suffered full force years before.

Looking back at red flags dismissed, and the more painful regrets.... remember hard won lessons bring wisdom.  You will likely not repeat the old mistakes, and can see the jagged places that snagged your heart and soul, changed your world view into one of needing a particular outcome, that wasn't possible no matter how badly you wanted it.

Being able to walk away gives us power and agency over ourselves and our futures.  Releasing expectations and embracing truth without judgement is safety, imo.  Worst case you ventured out, found attraction again, rolled around in  it like a teenager, learned about what you want more, and less of.  Laughter, and belif in yourself can rule these days, no matter what comes.

I wouldn't outright ask your friends to vet this guy.  I'd let them know I was doing it, with eyes wide open, hoping for the best but unsure what will come. 

That way they'll adopt your curious stance, without judgement or pressure, and likely engage in constructive conversation afterwards....seems natural ly, not dutifully or as a job they could fail at if things go badly either way.

In the meantime you stay busy with a life you enjoy and embrace as priority.  You aren't so focused on this man that you lose yourself.  This is a casual inquiry, not a life or death situation you've hung your self esteem on.  You're going to come through this decision stringer, better informed about yourself and B. 

Lean into discovery.....blast fear, it only slows you down and makes you feel heavier in heart, mind and soul.

I hope you and B go dancing, Hops.  I hope you see shows and sightsee.  Give him enough trust to show you who he is, without risking things you can't do without.  Ask him if he wants to go an adventure with you.....he will.  Laugh.  Be busy.  Plan great things.

Believe him when he tells and shows you who he is.

Even if it's not OK......
It's OK.

:: nodding::
Lighter

sKePTiKal:
Late to the party...

Hops - of the 2 things that bothered/bother you - the first isn't a dealbreaker; it's something verbal he tossed out in an awkward moment. The second MIGHT be, and because it did happen once and you & he talked it through, you can now trust yourself to catch any repeat performances. That should allow you to extend a little bit more trust to B... and relax, knowing you WILL catch any whiff of a pattern.

I have big trust issues too. About different things - but I KNOW my inability to easily trust others is due to a deep-seated distrust of my self. My instinctive way of dealing with that is NOT helpful, even if it is effective. We'll talk about that more elsewhere.

Waiting to hear how your evening went.

Hopalong:
Thank you ALL for getting me through the pre-dinner panic attack.
It went well! My friends were impressed and B was absolutely lovely to them.
He clearly does care about making a good impression on people so important to me.
As we were leaving he suggested to them that he and I should come to their city to visit.
So she said to me later, gosh he really is moving it forward!
And I said, I have my foot on the brake....

But it was nice. He emailed this morning that he'd dreamed of us sleeping in each
other's arms with "nothing but peace and joy."

Soooo nice. And then....

He sent another email with one of those dumb collations of joke images from the internet, and two of them were: 1) racist (a "Detroit bumper sticker" showing 3 incarcerated males and beside them, 1 female with about a dozen children. Implication -- black.) It was ugly and ignorant about all the problems of African Americans, not the least of which is incarceration rates and lack of jobs.
2) Sexist. A har-har photoshopped image of that pic of Hillary Clinton greeting Harvey Weinstein and Weinstein's face has been turned to the camera and the image changed to him pushing HER away...and the caption is Harvey saying with a big grin, "Gotta draw the line somewhere!"

B's note to me was, "You'll find these make you laugh and smile!" Clearly, thought he was sharing something delightful. Those two actually made me sad. And moreso, because he saw no issues.

So despite the love-bombing...Hops dunno.

I feel exhausted at the prospect of explaining empathy to someone who has clearly been moving in right-wing mental circles, even if he didn't vote for the current president.

I dunno what that'd imply. On the other hand, he told a story about how disturbed he was about a local muslim business owner whose proud photo of his grandfather, in his robes and dress, caused someone to come in, rest his hand on a visible handgun, and tell him "You need to take that photo down because we don't want that kind of thing around here...." B was not happy about that.

(So how does he miss the meaning of racist and/or sexist images he just sent?). I don't get it. Maybe the local guy is real to him since he's met him, but women who are sexually harrassed and one who was demonized beyond belief with pure hatred when she ran for office, and anonymous black men in jail and inner-city black women...are just cartoons to him. Not people.)

Oy. I can't and don't want to be thought police but when he shares stuff that overt, I feel as though maybe it's a moment I should speak to. Don't know how.

Likewise, not sure how I can reconcile the pleasures of being wanted and so forth...with a core disconnect about empathy.

Still thinking. Still dunno, but I don't feel panicky any more. For now...

love and more thanks,
Hops

Twoapenny:
Oh Hops!  He is a complex one.  Humour is an odd thing; different things being funny to different people.  If those pics were part of a larger collection could it be that he didn't actually scroll through the whole thing himself, maybe that the first few made him laugh and he assumed they were all similar (playing Devil's Advocate here!).

I think the thing with sexism, racism and all the other isms that exist is that they do take different forms for different people.  It's common here in the UK for someone to say "I'm not racist but".......... and then say something racist.  I think for some people racism is about calling people names or beating them up for their colour.  I don't think things like making assumptions about people, ignoring that they are treated differently, albeit subtly and quietly in some cases, acknowledging that some people have access to fewer opportunities because of their colour/gender/ sexuality/whatever count as an 'ism' in some people's minds.  Shades of what's okay and what's not.  My sister and her partner's family are very racist (to my mind), but I know if I took my Indian friend round to their house they'd welcome her with open arms and treat her like one of the family.  To them they're not racist because they aren't mean to people to their faces.  To me that's not enough.  My sister and I voted differently for the Leave Referendum (about leaving Europe).  My main concern was that life for disabled people will get even worse in this country if we aren't in the European Union.  When I voiced that to my sister she replied that things weren't great (for disabled people) anyway.  To me that is someone who regards disabled people as second class citizens who just don't deserve or even need the same rights as people without disabilities and someone who completely misses the point about equality.  But if you asked my sister whether she thought disabled people should be treated the same as people without disabilities she'd say of course they should.  So I think it's different levels for different people.

So, I dunno.  From everything you have written he seems like a nice guy with a crap sense of humour.  Maybe that will level out as time goes on.  Maybe you could watch a comedy show that you find funny so he's sees more of what makes you tick.  I think it's still a case of see what happens - will his good points outweigh his sometimes naff jokes and clumsy way of handling things?  There will always be something that someone finds irritating about the other person - I think it's just a case of where the line is.  So I've no idea where things are now!  I'm glad the meal went well though, and that he got on well with your friends.  xx

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