news about my D

[Hopalong]

I often wonder why this happens, and whether it might be a passive way of reaching out, though that's probably a huge stretch.

My D had set her Twitter to private many months ago (the only place online where I occasionally could see a crumb of info about her life, as she rarely would stick in a personal comment....95% of it is a fan-twitter kind of thing about a sport she's obsessed with). So I stopped looking.

It's been healthy for me. The heartache subsided when I stopped poking it. But. Easter is a time that always triggers thoughts of her, because of many strong and loving memories I have associated with that time with her as a child. Predictably, while wandering online this morning, I reflexively entered her Twitter address and lo and behold, it's open again.

Long story short, a few tweets down I discovered another GoFundMe announcement, and the details are that she is also medically ill. She was hospitalized last fall (I knew that from a vague tweet but didn't know what the cause was, though I thought perhaps her back--chronic). What I now have learned is that she has Addison's disease. That means her adrenal glands are burned out, and she will have to be on expensive medications for the rest of her life. She was in the hospital for three weeks and is now out, but not well. And with no health insurance, she's desperate to pay for the medications.

I donated to bring it up to the total. This time I wasn't "Anonymous." My comment was just: "It's Mom. I love you, D. Please be in contact when you can."

That was it. Just set me off on a spiral of sorrow today.

B is coming over later to garden. That'll be good.

love,
Hops

[lighter]

Oh, so sorry, Hops.  I hope DD reaches out.  I hope gardening with B brings some comfort..

I'm thinking about you, and sending strength.

Lighter

[Hopalong]

Thanks, Lighter.

I doubt very much that she'll reach out...if she wasn't able to for the last six years even when she was hospitalized, me discovering her new condition is unlikely to change that. Made me so sad.

B was dear and calm and comforting to be around...heard my simple summary of what had happened but didn't quiz me or offer to "fix it." We just worked together in the yard and then went out to eat at a place he hadn't tried and which he loved.

It was consoling and peaceful to be with him today, and I told him how much his company meant to me and how grateful I'm feeling. He was undemanding and mellow and I think one key with him is shared activity. He loves puttering in the yard and with his presence I felt more motivated. We got my birdhouse hung and patio cleaned up (it was covered with leaves) and it just looks...tended to. Came home from dinner and went back outside just to enjoy the amazing moon.

love,
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

Hugs Hops.

[Twoapenny]

Oh, Hopsie, I'm sorry she's poorly.  It's so hard when someone you love is unwell.  We just want to do what we can to help and it's hard not being able to.  I am glad you were able to donate money though, and that you felt able to tell her who it was from.  I wish she could see how her life could be easier with you in it.  I'm glad B coming over helped a bit, though, tasks are always a good way to cope with things and shared tasks even more so.  We couldn't see the moon here, too cloudy.  I hope at the very least D keeps her twitter feed open so you can see that she's getting treatment.  I guess we can all take comfort from the fact that at least she's being proactive about getting the meds and not ignoring the problem (which is easy to do when it's something scary).  Let us know when/if you hear any more xx

[Hopalong]

Thanks, Tupp.
Without health insurance (or barely any income), medications, tests (she needs more) and visits to endocrinologist and other specialists are impossible to pay for. She's been desperately in debt for years and on food stamps and is just plain poor.

I don't know what's going to happen to her. My donation today was a bandaid on a geyser.

But I can't help unless she allows me to. Even then, my ability is limited. I would work longer and do anything I could to help her get health insurance, but I don't know what's possible in her state, and I can't get it for her if she won't communicate with me.

The only thing I can do is continue to let her walk the path she chooses to walk, much as I wish I could walk it for her. I am crushed and she is scared. (She said so in her funding statement...at the hospital when she explained she has no funds, they told her, "You need to ask for help." So she did, online.)

This is no way to live with a serious illness, and sometimes I hate my country. In the UK and Ireland, lifesaving Addison's medications are provided for free. Here, you can beg a pharmaceutical company for a discount, if you're lucky. People have died waiting for them.


Hops

[lighter]

(((Hops)))
I'm praying your DD can let you back into her life.  I'm praying she gets Obamacare, her drugs, and a positive shift in perspective about a great many things.

Reading about your day with b was comforting.  Yesterday was a cornucopia of insanity. 

Lighter

[Twoapenny]

Thanks, Tupp.
Without health insurance (or barely any income), medications, tests (she needs more) and visits to endocrinologist and other specialists are impossible to pay for. She's been desperately in debt for years and on food stamps and is just plain poor.

I don't know what's going to happen to her. My donation today was a bandaid on a geyser.

But I can't help unless she allows me to. Even then, my ability is limited. I would work longer and do anything I could to help her get health insurance, but I don't know what's possible in her state, and I can't get it for her if she won't communicate with me.

The only thing I can do is continue to let her walk the path she chooses to walk, much as I wish I could walk it for her. I am crushed and she is scared. (She said so in her funding statement...at the hospital when she explained she has no funds, they told her, "You need to ask for help." So she did, online.)

This is no way to live with a serious illness, and sometimes I hate my country. In the UK and Ireland, lifesaving Addison's medications are provided for free. Here, you can beg a pharmaceutical company for a discount, if you're lucky. People have died waiting for them.


Hops

I hope she sees it as the support that it is, Hops.  Emotional support alone is such a tonic; we all know that.  Ironically, the NHS here is being privatised and there are weekly stories in the press about people being refused meds and surgeries that they need because it's no longer funded.  People think it's a great idea; they're convinced that private services will be much better.  Which of course they will be - if you can afford them.  I honestly think the only reason so many people think private healthcare in this country is a good idea is because they've never had to pay for it and they've no idea just how tough (and expensive) it is.

I hope she's looking after herself as best she can, Hops, and she is lucky to have you, even if she doesn't know it xx

[Hopalong]

I need help with figuring this one out, guys. It's such a minefield, swamp, something.

My D is genuinely at risk due to no health insurance. Her old HS friend, a girl who was very loyal to D, started a GoFundMe for her. It's at $2000. She needs to see an endocrinologist and get medications. I donated earlier, but a small amount. The goal limit was just raised because she needs tests. I know her need is real.

But I'm struggling over what to do. I could just do more, out of my emergency fund. And work more hours. And it's her health. But I don't like being manipulated to help her, over the internet. I wrote in my note: I love you D. Please contact me when you can. And then the limit was raised. It's weird but I feel as though she's trying to communicate with me over an anonymous internet fundraiser. And I worry that it's a slippery slope. I also know her need is real. She is still in desperate straits.

I feel torn because I hate the thought of her suffering but the way she has used me before and the way she has played victim (victim with "no family") on the internet has troubled me a lot. She once said online that she'd been "on her own since age 19". When she had lived with me, when my mother paid half her rent for her to finish college, when I supported her and bailed her out financially over and over. I just resented it.

But how can you resent helping a child who is ill? Your only child? The guilt is coming back. I don't know how to deal.

I have also had two recent thoughts I do not like. B doesn't ask and doesn't seem to want to hear about her. Yet he could help her if he wanted to. Should I send him her GoFundMe link? Is that more of the same behavior I accuse her of? Likewise, the old Ngent I work for. He's sitting on millions, obsessed with the tax deductions he'll get for his donations to hundreds of nonprofits. I am tempted to ask him if he'd like to donate to her medical fund. Yet is that more grifter behavior?

These painful thoughts about money and love are really really really bothering me. I don't want to be that person.

Yet I'm truly worried about my D.

I want to "force" her to acknowledge I exist. Yet I also dread it. There has been sorrow but peace.

Am I horrible? I feel horrible. I know I don't know the right ethical answers.

Maybe another small donation? Maybe I should donate $500 and let it go? But she's ILL.

Help.

love,
Hops

[Twoapenny]

I need help with figuring this one out, guys. It's such a minefield, swamp, something.

My D is genuinely at risk due to no health insurance. Her old HS friend, a girl who was very loyal to D, started a GoFundMe for her. It's at $2000. She needs to see an endocrinologist and get medications. I donated earlier, but a small amount. The goal limit was just raised because she needs tests. I know her need is real.

But I'm struggling over what to do. I could just do more, out of my emergency fund. And work more hours. And it's her health. But I don't like being manipulated to help her, over the internet. I wrote in my note: I love you D. Please contact me when you can. And then the limit was raised. It's weird but I feel as though she's trying to communicate with me over an anonymous internet fundraiser. And I worry that it's a slippery slope. I also know her need is real. She is still in desperate straits.

I feel torn because I hate the thought of her suffering but the way she has used me before and the way she has played victim (victim with "no family") on the internet has troubled me a lot. She once said online that she'd been "on her own since age 19". When she had lived with me, when my mother paid half her rent for her to finish college, when I supported her and bailed her out financially over and over. I just resented it.

But how can you resent helping a child who is ill? Your only child? The guilt is coming back. I don't know how to deal.

I have also had two recent thoughts I do not like. B doesn't ask and doesn't seem to want to hear about her. Yet he could help her if he wanted to. Should I send him her GoFundMe link? Is that more of the same behavior I accuse her of? Likewise, the old Ngent I work for. He's sitting on millions, obsessed with the tax deductions he'll get for his donations to hundreds of nonprofits. I am tempted to ask him if he'd like to donate to her medical fund. Yet is that more grifter behavior?

These painful thoughts about money and love are really really really bothering me. I don't want to be that person.

Yet I'm truly worried about my D.

I want to "force" her to acknowledge I exist. Yet I also dread it. There has been sorrow but peace.

Am I horrible? I feel horrible. I know I don't know the right ethical answers.

Maybe another small donation? Maybe I should donate $500 and let it go? But she's ILL.

Help.

love,
Hops

You're not horrible, Hops, far from it.  It's a heartbreaking situation for you to be in.  No easy way to deal with it.  My thoughts - and I might sound blunt but don't mean to, I'm trying to keep things simple as it is such a difficult situation - are these:

I don't think you should ask B or your old gent for donations.  I think your situation with B is already complex enough without adding money to the mix.  I think him making a donation at your request might make you feel you owe him, or might make him feel you owe him.  I think it would add difficulty to what already seems to be a quite complex relationship, at times.  I also wonder how you would feel if he said no.  Equally with your old gent - if it happened to come up in conversation and he offered that would be slightly different but I think to ask him could create a problem within your employer/employee relationship - I think money can cause all sorts of problems in all sorts of relationships and I think it's important that you keep what you need and what your D needs separate.

Having said all of that, I would be happy to make a donation if you wanted to send me the link to her GoFund Me page.  I can do it anonymously and it wouldn't be a fortune but every little bit helps xx

I don't think you should work more hours or dip into your emergency fund.  Your own situation is precarious and you're still working at a stage in life when many have stopped.  With the greatest of respect, you don't know when you may need healthcare and/or other care or how much it would cost.  You know from seeing your clients you work for what it can be like.  None of us can be certain it won't happen, however well we look after ourselves.  So I think you need to keep your emergency fund locked up and I think you already work more hours than you ought to be so I don't think you should take on more.

I don't know what happened with you and your D and how it all came to a head, but from the way you've always been on here I find it hard to believe that you did something heinous enough to warrant the way that she treats you.  I think the least she could have done when you donated was to get in touch to say thanks, and/or let you know what was going on.  It's heartbreaking to know your child is going without; I've been there with my son and it shatters your soul.  But equally I think your D is an adult and she knows if she reached out you would be supportive.  She's chosen not to, for whatever reason, and I think that means you need to avoid putting yourself in a difficult situation by trying to help her.  I think if there are any charities or organisations that might be able to help her out then maybe you could send her their contact details.  And I think if you are able to make small donations every now and again then that would be good.  But I don't think you should leave yourself without emergency funds or create a situation where you wear yourself out with work. 

I think the guilt will always be there - I think guilt comes with parenting!  And I know it doesn't help when people tell you not to feel guilty, because it's one of those emotions that is just there and it doesn't listen to logic.  But I honestly don't feel that you have anything at all to feel guilty about.  I don't think you resent helping her, I think your inner logic is warning you that the situation isn't healthy for you and you need to tread carefully.

I'm sorry that the situation isn't better than this and that there isn't an easy answer xx

[sKePTiKal]

Hopsie, I have my own struggles with A. Who apparently is using the $$$ I sent her to pay for continuing therapy to play rock & roll groupie. At her kids' expense; on their spring break.

I wonder what would happen if you allowed yourself to feel real deep-down angry at the situation YOU find yourself in - at your D's doing? For 24 hrs or some other limit. Angry at feeling guilty even - because of not being allowed to help as a normal parent reflex informs you? (There is NOTHING BAD about your instincts, except in D's mind.) After my experiences, I would be wary of taking what you think you know about D's situation at face value, and as the truth. It could very well BE true. But if you've no way to verify that for yourself, be wary.

Our compassion levers can get kicked into motion by false pretenses. People who know that about us, play that card sometimes. And usually, it's the ones who know us best; that we care about the most that can smoothly put this into play.

Try to focus your mind on something else. That's another way to come back and look at the feelings you've expressed with fresh eyes. Anger isn't the only or the best way.

[Hopalong]

Thank you, Tupp. I know you're right. (And heavens no, I would not accept a tuppence from Tupp.) I couldn't actually imagine how to choke out that kind of hint or request to either Ngent or B anyway. I do not want $$ to pollute my work or personal relationships. I'm not happy with it ethically or personally, it's just desperation-thinking. I think it's VERY clear with my employer relationship, ironic though it is that we were first friendly through church. With B, I think part of me is pissed that he doesn't want to hear about "unpleasantness." And showing him her fund page would be a way to force him to think about the reality. A passive and creepy way to confront him about it, actually. I'll talk about that on the Heist thread.

Amber, thanks for inviting honesty about feeling used/wary/mistrustful/sad etc. And that does include anger. I'm good enough to give D money through a roundabout online donation that she won't acknowledge, but not to contact directly like an adult. I know she's built an edifice of near-orphan victimhood and I believe it's in some way propping up her psyche to maintain my "punishment."  But it's dishonest and unfair. Even though she's ill, I don't have to help maintain it. But the "ill" part is really devastating. Objectively, I do entirely trust that she's ill.

(Plus, I should probably stick to what I offered when she needed thousands in dental work. I will send a check directly to a doctor or clinic, just provide the name and address.) But I'm not saying anything for now. She saw my donation and heard what I said, so maybe I should just wait and see. I did write, "Please contact me." So not leaping to donate more through the fundraising site is, I guess, a reasonable choice on my part.

I'm gong to sit with this a little longer. No action's probably better right now. My T is away and I'll see him again in a week. That should help.

Thanks so much
Hops

[lighter]

Hi Hops:

Lots of advice, but want to echo sitting....doing nothing right now.  You sent money, a message of love and support if asked.... that's appropriate under the circumstances, IMO.

DD nay reach out.....she may not.  What's important is she knows you've offered, and you care.

If you verify the illness, I wouldn't feel bad forwarding her go fund me page by e mail to everyone you know, if and when it's appropriate in your mind.  People can give as much or little as they please.  There doesn't have to be any discussion at all.

Honestly, the old gent has a chance to return some kindness and care.....he has charities he gives to....he might be warned to embrace another cause such as this.

Put this down for a while, or journal on it, or act, but find clarity as you can.  Letting anger come up is human.  Yes, DD is ill, but that doesn't diminish the unfair unkind treatment.  That's as real as her illness, and letting it wash over you won't be disloyal to her.  Stuffing it might be disloyal to yourself.

((((Hops and DD)))))

Lighter

[Hopalong]

Thanks, Lighter. That's a very thoughtful approach.

What I'm torn about is feeding her manipulative way of seeking help.
Even sending the link to friends, though it could generate some more help for her, kind of drags me into her game.

If my D hadn't banished me six years ago I could've been helping her for a while. I certainly have wanted to -- I begged her to let me pay for dental work before I spent it on taxes and house repairs. I told her she could have it within two months but it would not be available after a certain date. I wrote, "You don't need to talk to me, just give me the doctor's name and address." She ignored the offer. It wasn't a small sum.

My Ngent may give me his old Prius, or sell it to me very cheaply, sometime soon. I have thought over and over, this could mean a car for D!

I figured I'd cover it and store it. Because if she won't speak to me or acknowledge that I exist, how can I make her a gift like that? The truth is I am not even sure what her true address is in her city. I saw one I didn't recognize when searching last year, but I have no way of knowing if it's current. She's moved around a lot.

My feeling about helping her to spread the fundraiser is deeply painful because...I don't want to help her keep begging for help from strangers. I've seen her do it on Twitter, and this is the second GoFundMe. It's not that she doesn't need help, it's that I'm concerned that it'll be one more proof (in her mind) that she can't find any other way to earn, live, get more education and improve her life. It just looks like helpless resignation. I think her old HS friend is doing it because she is so kind and loyal. My D embraced her when other kids would not.

Maybe the poisonous outlook is where she is now and nothing else can be hoped for. In my backward way, I feel as though helping her through that website is capitulating to her nihilistic feelings that life is hopeless and her pattern of seeking attention online. And that having a mother is entirely a negative unless she's handing out money. I did that for so so long, and she lied to the world about it, telling people "I've been on my own since age 19." That year, her father died and left her enough money to finish college, which she blew before dropping out. From then until age 30, along with my mother who paid half her rent until she graduated, I gave her money, real money, over and over and over. And she not only wasn't grateful, ever, even when it was a serious struggle for me...but she metaphorically spat in my face.

I know I was the collection site for all the darkness and grief and rage and toxicity she had, plus the darkness of the bipolar. I know I didn't deserve it. And there's PART of her that couldn't help it. After she left the last time, I think buried shame prevented her from turning back, any time over the last six years, because she on some level knew what she'd done with me was wrong. But she was desperate at what she saw as her failures (to finish her MA, to get her brothers to value her, to keep the boyfriend, so many things she loathed about herself). And so she drew so much power from tearing me apart and hurting me. I think she got extra attention and pity from demonizing me. So...the parts she couldn't help aren't her fault. But somewhere along the way, she also made a choice to be cruel. Unbelievably so. And she walked away from anything I'd modeled or taught her about love. In her loss and rage, I think she saw love as weakness. My PCP said, "When I met your daughter I knew I was seeing a very troubled young woman with a personality disorder."

But, consider. I work for an old Ngent who is as self-absorbed as my mother was and my daughter is. And I don't hate him for his PD (as you know, I think it's genetic). And I still have compassion for him, every day, even though he can be unkind and is rarely grateful. (He does manage it now and then, though.) So why am I even hesitating to compassionately send money to my D right now? I can pull some from my emergency fund, and her situation is serious.

One fear I have is that it's also lifelong. She HAS to figure out ways to plan her medical care going forward, and without insurance, I fear for her. I also know that I literally can't support her again. Not without dying early. I'd have to go back to work full time and though I think I SHOULD be ready for that kind of selflessness, I honestly don't want to do it. I'm so tired.

A doctor acquaintance said, Addison's IS treatable and these drugs are not that expensive. But she's wealthy, and didn't know my D has no resources. Over $1000 a year just for those Rx (not even counting her bipolar meds and others) must look like a moon shot to my D, who has been and may still be on food stamps and living hand to mouth. Now she's not just mentally unwell, but physically unwell too. I don't think she can work now, and all I knew about was one year as a nanny. She must have SOME sort of income but I don't know where it comes from.

So I am terribly torn. I'm grieving that she has a serious physical illness now to contend with too. And I DO want to help her. I know if I shared the site with friends some of them would chip in some. But I'm sorry to admit, I feel humiliated about doing that. Because in my heart, I know it's like putting a bandaid on a gushing wound. And because it'd in a way be bringing more attention to my lost child among my community of friends, when the estrangement is so painful for me that I very rarely mention it to anyone. Just two or three very close. It's easy to be judged as a failed mother and I don't need the extra pain.

Her needs are endless, and she made so clear to me when she left that her only interest in me was as a money source. That became so hurtful that when I lost my job I finally stopped the last support...paying her cell phone. It was painful but also felt right. How could I keep paying for years for a phone she would never call or text me on, not even once a year?

It occurs to me I could text her and spell out, I would like to help you but not anonymously or online. Please let me know a doctor's name and address that I could contact about what you need.

Truthfully, I do not want to be entangled with her accounts, because of the risk she'd list me going forward as responsible. I don't know how that works but it happened before. Cosigning a student loan she defaulted on, using my checking account to pay utilities without permission, etc. But there must be some way I could help her financially without getting entangled. And that's just with her creditors, who called my house for years after she left before they gave up. I honestly dread getting entangled financially with HER again, too.

Maybe a prepaid prescription account at a pharmacy? Something like that? I just don't want to do it online. I guess I could get her a CVS gift card, which would help. That doesn't cover an endocrinologist or tests or the rest, but would be something. Of course, she can buy anything at CVS with it, which might not be a great idea either.

Suggestions welcome...it's a rock and a hard place. Helping her is right because her need is real. Protecting myself from a new round of being used is hard to judge ... I don't know where or how to set a boundary around it. If I show her now that I'll take responsibility for her medical needs, my retirement is lost. It's already so skimpy it won't see me through. But this is my CHILD. The conflict is painful to confess, even here.

My last thought for now is that I DID donate, bringing the fund to its goal. It was only low three figures. And wrote, I love you, D. Please contact me when you can. AFTER that, I looked one more time and the goal  had been raised again. The friend wrote "at D's request." I almost think it's her indirect way of asking me to do it again. But the goal was suddenly a thousand more. Legitimate need, but the timing just felt like...she's trying to pull me in, and once again control exactly how I can participate. Give online, expect not one word, and on she goes...

The thing is, she does not know I looked again and saw the suddenly raised total goal. I have been thinking today that I could just leave my message as it was, leave the ball in her court to reach out to me directly.

I love her, but I'm not even eager for it any more. But I don't know that it's fair to expect her to be straightforward when she's so obviously so mute when it comes to me, and has built her psyche around it.

Thoughts are welcome. Thanks for reading this disjointed ramble.

love
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Oh, Hops.  This is such a tough situation for you to be in.  You can be compassionate, have compassion for her, love her, want to be her mum, want her back in your life without sending her money.  From an outsider's perspective, putting aside the emotion and the mum/child bond (which I understand only too well), I think your D has created a situation where you can only help her if you agree to her manipulation/mind games/power struggle/whatever it is best described as. 

You've donated, stated where it came from, asked her to contact you - and she didn't.  She put the total up.  No thank you, no email to explain the situation, no returning your money (you know how I feel about taking money from my mum - I won't do it.  My feeling is that, if D had a genuine grievance with you, she wouldn't want your money, either.  The fact that she takes it and doesn't even say thank you or let you know what it's being spent on, is a no, in my book).

My T, years ago now, was talking to me about me wanting to fix other people's problems and she said that, every time you figure someone else's problem out for them, you stop them from learning how to figure it out by themselves.  The lack of health care in the States is appalling, I agree.  For people to be ill and not be able to get medicine is a disgrace.  But equally, your D has had a lot more help, money and opportunity than many other people in similar situations and she's not changing the way she behaves.  I can see how if there is a personality disorder there then changing her behaviour might not be an option.  But if that's the case it will always mean you can only be in her life on her terms - which aren't acceptable.  It's an enormous rock and a very, very hard place.

Please don't dip in to your emergency fund, retirement plan or anything else.  Your own future is uncertain.  You don't have family to look after you or sort things out for you so you must plan as well as you can for yourself and keep yourself safe financially.  I don't think there's any point or reason to give D a car, Hops, she won't be able to afford to run it and I can't see that she would be grateful or thankful for it.  I think the only thing you can do that might help you feel that you're helping without you getting caught up in everything again would be to contact her directly, either on Twitter or by phone, and tell her that you're willing to pay x amount to the hospital or clinic that she visits.  Make sure it is only an amount you can afford, not an endless sum that's going to cause you problems to spend.  And see if she sends you the details of the doctor, hospital etc.  If she does, and you can send some money direct to the clinic knowing it will be spent on meds, all well and good.  If she doesn't - as she didn't with the dental work - then you've done what you can.

I think what you wrote about parts of what she's done not being her fault are pertinent, and I think it's harder to take a tougher stance with someone when you know they can't control some of what they do.  But equally none of it is your fault, either, and you have tried so many times in so many ways to reach out to her.  So I think a direct offer of "I can pay x to your doctor directly, send me the details" would mean you could help without getting enmeshed in anything else or contributing to what seems to be a pattern of raising money online.  With my entirely cynical hat on, there are constant GoFund Me accounts in the UK, some of which are for very worthwhile causes, but there are people now who think putting something online to ask for cash is just the easiest way to do it.  I'm not suggesting that your D isn't unwell but given that it's not the first time she's done this it does suggest she finds this easier than trying to deal with her actual problems, or just communicating directly with you as she knows you would help xx