Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board

Hello - need support

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sKePTiKal:
Tupp, he's going to need a lot of free time to read through the old threads! LOL.

I know I've been around the board for over 10 years now -- and there was much to read for me when I was a newbie. Our posting has slowed down - those of us still active here on a regular basis - and then, the phase of the moon or whatever comes around and we're all dealing with something at once again.

So Ernie, just because we're mostly females... don't worry. Mud, a guy, still sometimes posts. It's been a mixed group off/on over the years. We can all be mother-hens at times, or Mama Tigers, tucking you behind us while we face down your "enemy" and put them in their place. But we'll always appreciate that your journey to a "new balance" in your life is all yours and we'll be kind, respectful, and try to encourage you along the way.

lighter:
Welcome E:

You have many good responses from old timers already.

What I want to add is learning discernment.... along with boundaries, and how to enforce them.

We have to learn how to discern who we can trust, who can can trust less, and who we can't trust at all.

Througout our lives we file people in our hearts and minds according to their behaviors.

If we give trust to someone who's shown they aren't deserving... that's not on us... that's on them.

Giving second chances to people who can't handle a first.... that's something we can control.

The last thing I want to add is.... sometimes our pain and trauma stays front and center.... so very close.... to us and our lives.

So very present.

That's something we can work on. 

We can gain emotional distance, and find relief, IME. 

Again, welcome.

Lighter

erniec:
Thanks everybody for your kind words, that means a lot.  I honestly was reluctant to check back here as I've gotten to used to being ignored and/or dismissed, so thank you al for taking the time. To the UK writer, one of the first professionals I ever got any validation from on this subject (before I found Dr Grossman's page here) was from a psychologist in the Devon / Cornwall area of your country.  Can't remember his name...Jamie something, I think, its not important.  He was the first psychologist to tell me "what you are saying to me is consistent with everything I hear from the people I serve who have suffered the same traumas".  Canada is a progressive country, but we are absolutely clueless about this subject.  Again I refuse to seek out professional help because way too many have proven to me to be profoundly destructive and completely unconscious to their own judgments or biases or their own unconsciousness - the comment I made about "I don't understand what you are talking about, and since I'm not going to take any responsibility for not knowing anything about the subject, I'm just going to invalidate it and you and say there's something wrong with you before I skip on to a new subject that I know something about" is the rule not the exception from my experience. 

About the diagnosis, no, I've never had any further incidents.  I even used some psychoactive drugs for spell (acid, mj, PCP) and never had a break during that time either.  All I remember from doing that stuff was thinking everything (and everyone) was (were) profoundly hilarious.  I believe I was misdiagnosed due to lack of knowledge and blurred / confusing diagnostic boundaries at the time it occurred (1989).  I also had a psychiatrist who was a bit of a renegade and cultural figure up here - some of you may have heard of him, his name was Dr Abram Hoffer, he did major studies in the 50's and 60's on LSD as treatment for alcoholism here in Canada that coincided with Timothy Leary's involvement with the drug (there's a great National Film Board of Canada documentary on youtube on Hoffer and Leary and the other guy involved, a Canadian named Stephen Duckett I think his name was) which of course all went awry when LSD was banned in the US.  Well, while he was a very kind man, he had a big personality and he was convinced I was "cured" by his treatments (massive doses of certain vitamins, including niacinamide, and change of diet - no sugar, dairy or bleached flour).  He believed schizophrenia had a biochemical basis due to food allergies brought about by big industry pushing sugar, dairy and bleached flour consumption.  I was one of his pet patients and in presentations at various conferences all over the world he would specifically reference me (without naming me of course), he even did it once with me in the audience - as a success story.  I think the man was a genius - given the movement away from sugar and flour and dairy products in our society today, he along with Linus Pauling are responsible for this movement - but he was wrong about me and the origins of my disease because he didn't understand my family dynamic.  Nobody did.  One early psychologist had an inkling it was family related, and pushed us to do family counselling session - well, all they got was one, because in that one the wheels started coming off the cart pretty fast and my dad after that likely sensing a risk to being outed as the real source of discord and problems within the family shut it down. 

Sadly the therapist who had the hunch and was proven right (it was very much a family issue) didn't push it afterwards and it was left where it was.  But then again no one understood this back then.  It was all like Richard talks about, subtext.  Only the most perceptive therapists "got it".  The first psychologist I discovered that had caught on to this dynamic and understood it was through the book "Running On Empty" by Dr Jonice Webb, who I'm sure Richard knows as I believe she also practices in MA.  The UK psychologist from Devon told me that not many psychologists understand this - he said it's being understood more and more in the UK and continental Europe, and is understood by therapists on the east coast (Richard for example), some folks in California and virtually nowhere else.  So yeah, having a forum like this is vital. 

I remember them asking me the same questions over and over when they were trying to diagnose me and sometimes I would respond one way and sometimes I would respond another way because as a kid I didn't understand what was going on.  I think now I absolutely had a psychic break due to the unreal family environment as a teenager and having a more introverted personality, I went inwards.  As I grew past this, I saw people's and my family's reactions and responses which were to deny and hide it - my sister has never spoken to me once about this, nor acknowledged it, NOTHING, like it didnt exist, since 1989, but she sure had no problem directing her fury at me for taking parental attention away from her during this time - or if my parents told their siblings, to be condescended to and patronized by aunts and uncles, and this taught me to do what they were doing I think - pretend it wasn't there.  So that's what I did for twenty years after until those techniques stopped working. 

I have no problem that most of you are women, you are the more understanding and empathic gender for sure.  Richard told me this would be the case anyways and that you guys would get it and respond the way you did, so thanks for the kindness.  As I get used this environment - talking about this with peers who have gone thru the same is new to me - I'll pop by more and more I'm sure.  I really enjoy Richard's essays, that's my life right there.

Yes, boundaries are crucial, and I've heard it said that after having no boundaries people go to putting the wall right up afterwards to compensate.  I knew nothing about them as I grew up in a home where psychologically at least there were no boundaries, and none were enforced.  Some of these narcs, like my former boss, I'm sure thought I was the most perfect narcissistic supply feed they'd ever come across.  It is totally self protective, and also purposeful, to give a very strong message to the dirtbags who used to pollute my life to stay away.  I don't know if it's self loathing so much as loathing of others, the direct consequent of being treated so disgustingly and the shame I feel of being aware of it now and that I let it go on for years as I just wasn't aware of what was going on.  I feel a lot of anger towards a lot of people, these, as I term them now, psychological rapists.  While I have a supportive relationship now, I still honestly don't know how to trust other people, having been psychologically raped by bad people for so long and not even knowing I needed to defend myself against others (what, other people can hurt me? huh? lol).  I'm still in a position where I am literally afraid of coming across another one of these people.

I have a tendency to long responses so yeah, bear with me on that one.  The writing thing, thanks for the compliment, I kind of do some side work in journalism from time to time for a local rag and got banned last weekend by Peter Frampton of all people - this nice British gentleman with all these hits dating back almost 50 years did not want me to review his show (I have been a bit hard on some classic rock guys in the past, but, unbeknownst to Mr Frampton, I would have gone pretty easy on him as I'm a big Humble Pie fan) - but I've been solid into self censorship for the most part due to being chronically shut down by others...this will come in time like most have said so far.  So thanks everyone who commented and even read and didn't, I'll see you around.  Cheerio!

 

erniec:
I just thought of a question, some people have hinted around it in their stories, but I want to ask others how long it took them to learn how to develop healthy relationships after becoming aware of what was going on.  Also, what were some of the things people did to increase the likelihood of finding non toxic people to add to their lives in a constructive way.  Was there, like, skills they needed to learn, to identify non-toxic people, and if so, what were some of these things you learned? 

I still find myself drawn to some of these people, one more recently, where I discovered, of course, the obvious, and have started to conclude that if I am "attracted" to them or find myself thinking about them, that's the cue for me that they are toxic.  What I've learned is that my wiring for identifying healthy people to have in my life is completely haywire - its the opposite to people with healthy relationships.

Also, what were people's experiences with needing to either cut off toxic family members completely or set restrictive boundaries with them ( I know this is a nebulous question, but I've cut my entire family off, except for my mother, a brother in law who is not toxic, and while I do interact with her on a very limited basis, I have set a really high bar for my sister (no sharing of personal information or anything I'm doing, when asked, treating her respectfully but remaining distant and emotionally disengaged).  Having to write off my entire family virtually has been very difficult, even though I realize now these people never showed up for me (and would never) anyways.  Thanks!

Twoapenny:
Hi again, Ernie,
I'm glad you came back!  I do understand what you mean about being nervous about checking because of previous times of not being acknowledged or receiving any understanding - it's tough to keep coping with rejection or indifference but hopefully you will find things a bit different here!  There are a few regular posters and then others that pop in and out (and who might be pop in when they see someone new to talk to which would be fab :) ).  It's very frustrating that you've not been able to find a good therapist or counsellor, they can be so helpful when they get your situation, but hopefully as you post here and start to feel more comfortable you might start to feel like you're getting the therapeutic input you need, albeit online rather than face to face :)  In all honestly, while I've been lucky to have two very good therapists over time, I have found the board the most use as I can write at any time, about anything, and I always get support, good advice and good feedback.  Hopefully you will feel the same way too :)

I think it can be difficult to trust again when you've been hurt badly, and by so many people over such a long period of time.  I think the thing that's hoped me the most is that I had to learn to trust myself, first and foremost - and this kind of ties in with your question about building healthy relationships and cutting off ties with family members.

Learning to trust myself was key, and in order to do that I had to recognise and acknowledge my feelings when I was with or around people.  That was very hard for me to do (and still is, because I still fall back into my old habits at times).  But I grew up in an almost completely numb state with no real acknowledgment of feelings (in myself), no way of validating how I felt (ie, having someone mirror or demonstrate to me what was okay and what wasn't) and almost a kind of seige mentality - constantly looking for the threat and trying to diffuse it before it 'got' me.  Always looking outward, never looking inward, really.

What I try to do now is focus on how I feel when I'm with or talking to people - comfortable, uncomfortable, guarded, relaxed, accepted, having to impress (those last two are particularly big ones for me).  And then thinking about the situation and whether that contributes to the feeling (feeling nervous on a first date would be understandable - feeling nervous in the company of a partner you've been with for years wouldn't be).  And then from that trying to work out whether some of what I felt was 'old' stuff or current stuff.  So again, growing up with exceedingly critical parents meant I always felt like I had to impress and nothing was good enough.  What I tried to focus on in more recent years was whether the feeling I wasn't good enough was genuinely coming from the person I was with at the time, or whether it was an old deep seated feeling that I was carrying with me.

It was/is very difficult and a lot of hard work, and yes, as you mention, I have put up a lot of walls over the years to protect myself.  But sometimes I think you need to do that.  If you had a weakened immune system and picking up any germ could make you ill you would avoid public places and clean things constantly, so I think it makes sense to protect yourself from more damage while you give yourself time to heal.  I guess the tricky bit is making sure you don't give up and retreat from the world forever (which is very tempting at times!).  I see saw back and forth.  There are days when I know an off the cuff remark or unkind comment will tip me over the edge so I tend to stay home those days, and other days it's fine, I can cope (and then it doesn't happen anyway, I think anxiety overtakes sometimes).  So little steps, sometimes forward, sometimes back.  Hopefully now you know you have some support here you might find you can start to process things and start off loading some of the difficulty on to the board :)

With regards to family, I cut off all contact with my step-dad about thirteen years ago and my mum about eleven years ago (my dad died when I was young).  I have two elderly aunts I exchange Christmas and Birthday cards with; my uncle is quite unwell at the minute so I do email from time to time to ask how he's doing but I've not seen or spoken to any of them for about seventeen years now and am not expecting (or wanting) to see or speak to them at any time.
I've a younger sister I'm mostly in text contact with (I've been moaning about her in another thread, lol).  One older half brother I exchange a Christmas email with, another step-brother who I have some contact with because he has learning difficulties and doesn't have any family support so I do call him and take him out occasionally but in all honesty only because I feel sorry for him and he doesn't really have many people around him.  I've two other step-sisters I don't have any contact with (I call them the Sisters Grimm) and then various cousins, second cousins and so on who I wouldn't recognise if I walked past them in the street.

I do find it hard not having family, particularly around times like Christmas and birthdays.  But I often say to people that, whilst I miss having a mum, I don't miss my actual mum.  Life has been a lot easier and calmer without all of them in it.  I think the thing with family dysfunction is that everyone has to play a role.  Quieter members have to stay quiet in order to allow the abusive members to be abusive.  Some members will carry on putting up with abuse while others continue to ignore it or justify it.  Personally I didn't think I could find a way to be mentally healthy and be in contact with my relatives, which is why I have put barriers up.  In the same way that someone trying to stop drinking probably shouldn't go to a pub, I don't think that people who are trying to heal emotionally will do too well if they're surrounded by people who don't want them to become healthy.  I think that's quiet a key thing - you getting healthy shines a light on other people's unhealthy behaviour and that can make people uncomfortable.  For me, keeping them all at arm's length is the best way to go.

Anway, hope that helps a bit and hope that you pop back soon :)

Tupp :)

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