Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board

Double Jeopardy; A; WTH is the matter with women. Q; What is Men, Alex?

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Hopalong:
I hope so, for you Mud. I hope happiness comes. You deserve to be happy.

What resonated strongly for me in your posts is something that feels so familiar it took me right back to those relationships of mine. The ones during which I learned it was...me. Not bad me or guilty me but anxious lonely me who couldn't see myself clearly. The objects of my affections obsessions were several different people over time, sequentially. But ME, that pattern was the same.

I remember obsessively looking into every encounter or message exchanged for an explanation that would be LOGICAL (he said or promised this so of course I thought that). And, in fact, I was looking for evidence or exchanges that I could use in a way as EVIDENCE that my hurt was unjustified.

It was. In the sense that life's not fair and I had to learn to accept a No (or to read it in behavior if I was getting mixed signals in words). And a couple times, the other DID do me wrong (lying, etc). Still, more than once, I was devastated that the yearning I felt was not reciprocated. Or the other, initially enthusiastic, changed their mind. I had a horrible, terrible, awful time accepting their No.

Looking back on those unrequited agonies, I realized that there was no peace in the relationship. There was desire and drama and anxiety and tension and urgency and speed, which I confused with love. Passion don't pass the potatoes. Though it adds spice.

What I fantasize about now is more agape plus affection plus commitment plus shared interests plus chemistry. At 68, I still enjoy chemistry, but passion is not priority one any more. Old-shoe comfort means more, affectionate and peaceful trust and belonging. I guess, for me, I'd describe what I seek as powerful tenderness.

You're still a young feller, and I am certain a handsome one...I wish you powerful tenderness. May you find it and be well. Sending hope!

Hugs
Hops
This might be an interesting read. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/traversing-the-inner-terrain/201104/the-rescuer-identity
I remember you talking about how hurt and damaged the other young woman was too, which made me think of the Rescuer thing. Might not resonate or maybe bits of it.

mudpuppy:
Thanks Hops. Problem is I don't know they're hurt and damaged til after I get involved. I'm not trying to rescue anyone that I know of. This gal seemed like a strong, independent, healthy gal, then out of the blue what had been a couple of comments about her schedule turns out to be a trigger so sensitive one little mention that I was a little disappointed blows up a relationship in which she was planning our wedding two days before it blew up.

There is a lot to bother me about this present blow up but what is bothering me the most now is her insistence before we stopped contacting each other that her feelings weren't as intense as mine and that my talking about marriage so early was a red flag. She talked about it more than I did going so far as to pick a date and she was talking about it right up to the very end. She wasn't even honest about how long the relationship lasted. I still have the texts from the two months we were happy. If her feelings weren't as intense as mine then she's a great actor. If you change your mind fine. But if you change it for no good reason, and she has given none, don't try to justify it by making up stuff about what happened.

I didn't have a problem with the other gal saying no because she said it right off the bat. I had a problem with her acting like I was some kind of nutcase when I went out of my way to avoid her.

Everybody has their wounds, but why try to project yours onto the other party?

mud

Hopalong:
I can understand what isn't working for you about HER behavior.

What I think you might be skipping quickly past is:

--- Quote ---my talking about marriage so early was a red flag
--- End quote ---

What if, in addition to all the things she has done wrongly or unfairly...this is also true?

That YOU declaring love and zooming to marriage talk immediately is, in fact, a big huge Red Square sized red flag?

What if THAT'S true? What if it means something pretty big about what's going on inside you? What if you would find peace, and renewed hope, and steadier center, and reality-based confidence, and a calmer core about love...if you dug into what is that about?

I trooooooooly believe that once your focus is off HER, and onto YOURSELF (not in blame, but in courageous curiosity) your growth and possibilities will take off like Richard Branson.

Slowly at first and then...atmosphere. You need to create your own happier atmosphere. You deserve to breathe without this angst. Yay, therapy.

Hugs
Hops

mudpuppy:
Well, I suppose I'd need more data to decide whether it's a problem for me. Maybe your own experiences make it a problem for you but not necessarily one for me?
I've only done it twice in my life.
The first time it led to the best relationship of anyone I've ever met.
The second time the woman agreed with me and was planning our wedding. You seem to be blowing past the part that it WAS NOT a red flag to her at the time. She says it is now but it obviously wasn't. That is not what broke us up. Her pain from her previous marriage did and that related not to a quick wedding but to her fear of being hurt like she was by her last guy. Had she not had this internal hurt we would very likely be on the way to a happy wedding. A good argument could be made that our relationship going as fast as it did exposed what was eventually going to come out anyway. The only way our relationship stayed on track was I was perfect on her score card up until I made a comment about her schedule. That's all it took to blow everything up. Obviously I was not going to remain perfect for ever, so better to blow up then than later, IMO.
You seem to find it hard to believe people can fall in love quickly and genuinely and that early talk of weddings is inherently, in the case of two people who fall in love quickly, a bad thing. I know people who have done it quick and been happily married for decades. I was myself.  I know people who did it slowly and carefully and when they finally got hitched hated it and each other. I don't think there's a cookie cutter for these things and I'm not sure the pressure that a whirlwind romance creates doesn't weed out which ones can make it and which ones can't. She obviously can't, so if we do get back together some day as I hope, then I will take it slow and steady and let her know that now that I know what her flashpoint is it will never be reached again. Had I known the first time around I would never have complained because it was just a minor deal to me, but obviously not to her. But, because it is an unresolved hurt in her it was inevitable I was going to hit that nerve eventually. Until she faces it and deals with it it's not going to go away and she will not be able to have a successful relationship with anyone.
  My problem was, IMO, not the one you describe but was only revealed after she ended our relationship. I still had so much unresolved pain and issues surrounding losing Mrs Mudpup that I could not accept losing this gal. It hurt SO bad, worse even than losing Mrs M, that I spent a week driving her further and further away by trying like a fool to keep her. I was never mean but I was idiotic. I doubt any one anywhere anytime has ever talked anyone back like that. I will always be grateful to her for telling me off so that I could see what a jerk I was rather than just blocking me and clamming up. It was her telling me off that let me start healing that mess I was refusing t recognize. Because she is a trained therapist and a genuinely charitable gal I hope and believe that as time passes she will recognize that and think more charitably of me than she does right now. Time will tell. I also hope the same happens with her and this episode forces her to deal with what she knows is there but withdraws to her lonely mountaintop to avoid dealing with.

I genuinely appreciate you taking the time to make me think about this stuff Hops. Just because I don't agree with a lot of what you say doesn't mean it isn't valuable and since I'm hardly wise I may eventually find out you may very well be more right than I know.

mud

Hopalong:
You are a hurtin' cowpoke, ((((Mud)))).
I think you shouldn't beat up on yourself so much. You are also a good person.
Clearly, so is she.
Something triggered something that represented something. I dunno.
I think the pout-moment was the switch.
I have a screaming Mimi in my head who can also appear in response to a complaint that even though intended lightly, triggers this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GsEXQwBzxo

Just so you know how infallible Pope Hops is...my parents:

Met May 1st 1945
Engaged June 1st
Married July 1st
Together 50 years

My father took her out almost every evening during May, except Saturdays. They ate dinner at a rooftop restaurant looking out at the lights of DC. Pretty heady time to be there, right after the war.
My mother once told me she wondered about Saturdays and he said, Saturday? That's bath night!

Hugs
Hops

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