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Book: Voicelessness and Emotional Survival: Notes from the therapy underground
Hopalong:
LOL.
I interviewed Seligman many years ago, just after he came out with Learned Optimism. I read the book and it did make sense to me.
I don't trust that blindly believing in pibble-pabble affirmations or The Secrets changes lives much (and holds dangers of delusion), but I remember coming away from it thinking, well, I do at least have SOME control over the direction of my thoughts. Later on, on learning that one of the features of clinical depression is rumination, I thought his approach could be useful in trying to short-circuit that. (But I was always too lazy or squirmy to follow anybody's "program" of self improvement. No gurus!)
Then again, I read enough self-help books in my 20s and 30s to build a house with them. So maybe part of me WANTED a magic affirmation-pill. Would've been nice.
I dunno if he's another Norman Vincent Peale huckster or not, but I viewed him generally positively. Haven't really thought about him much since.
Oh, and I remember he was very cheerful!
:)
Hops
Dr. Richard Grossman:
Hi lighter,
While I know about Seligman’s work—his book, Learned Optimism, is on one of my office bookshelves—I have never met him in person, and so I can’t comment on who he is as a “person.” I found it striking that he describes himself in the Vox article referenced above as “brusque, dismissive, and a grouch.” He certainly doesn’t sound like a “learned optimist!” And obviously (if one has read my book), our approaches to making a significant difference in a person’s life are very different. Because everyone’s brain is different, some approaches will help some people but not others. His approach would not have helped me. But the other point that is important to me, and that I wrote about: it is the patient side of the room, and his or her report on the significant long-term difference a particular therapy has made, that is crucial to evaluating therapies. It does not matter how many books you write, how many TED talks you give, how well known your name is, how rich you become, who you know, etc., etc.. What matters, at least to me, is how much your patients’ lives have changed for the better in the long run as a result of the therapy. Fortunately, and as I have been told many times by my long-term patients, this is the one result I can take pride in, and it gives me comfort as I grow older and think about the meaning of my life.
Richard
lighter:
Doc G:
From what little I've read, and seen from Seligman..... you're not one of the Ts Seligman would take issue with. I think he's most impressed by how well a client does in treatment.
If they're making progress... if healing takes place... that's success.
I see this with my T. If we're making progress in a session, we keep going. If we stop making progress, she shifts focus, and we try it another way. She doesn't rely on ONE way, and she certainly doesn't rely on a patient retelling their trauma story over and over without any progress. That's a big no no with her.
I know some Ts do that, and it's how they practice.
My T's methods align with my journey. Every patient will have their own journey. Isn't that why you advise us to interview different Ts and ask questions to test the fit? It helped me to widen my gaze, and not assume all Ts would fail to help me, bc a fistful had.
If anything, Seligman seems to condemn Ts who not only fail to help their clients, but who refuse to examine their treatment plan, or their part. No one T will be a perfect fit for every client, and the Ts who tell clients that, or assume the standard of practice they were taught 40 years ago is THE ONLY way to practice... they're failing their clients in Seligman's opinion, and mine... likely yours too.
Your patients are healing, and their lives are positively impacted through their therapeutic relationship with you.
I think he'd call that effective, and successful.
Maybe he's frustrated with the same Ts you take issue with?
Lighter
Dr. Richard Grossman:
Hi Lighter,
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I haven’t read/seen Seligman’s work since the days of his book, Learned Optimism. That’s great if he considers patient progress far more important than the method used—and that patient progress far outweighs therapist fame, status and methodology.
It sounds like you have a terrific therapist—and a terrific match. Yes, that’s why I always recommend people “audition” therapists. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve responded to e-mails from people around the world looking for a referral where they live with “…make sure the therapist ‘gets it’ and that you feel comfortable…” Every therapist is different and while you may agree with the techniques used, you may not appreciate/like/feel respected by the human being sitting across from you. As I wrote about my experience in my book, I learned this the hard way.
Thank you, Lighter, for all your “work” on this board. You, too, have helped so many people, and I so appreciate it!
I am also incredibly grateful for my long-term patients who taught me what I needed to know about doing therapy. One of my dear patients has come for 40 years and he is still willing to teach me! Such patient patients!
Richard
lighter:
Thanks, Doc G:
It feels right when you say the T has to "get it."
Feeling met where we are, understood, respected... not pushed into places we aren't ready or able to go... not feeling judged for not being able to go there seems super important, IME.
I'm glad your patients feel safe with you. That's everything, IME.
Thank you for sharing your stories, essays, plays, books, and this forum with me, and everyone else you've helped. I really appreciate the time and care you've gifted to so many.
Lighter
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