Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board

2019 Farm Life

<< < (42/88) > >>

sKePTiKal:
Yes, Hops... I'm doing my best to remember same. Hol has been pointing out how many times I say "we" - referring to herself and I. When she doesn't think I should be speaking for her. It's kind of a tourette's tic I have. I TRY to watch it; and I think when it pops up and becomes this unconscious, it might be connected to how vulnerable I feel.

Lighter, funny you mention that. We both know about ourselves that we're the last people to come out & ask for help. But he IS willing to be open and vulnerable; stating things as simply and honestly as he can. I think we can both receive... it's been going that way lately. But it's very much like cool water after an eternity in the desert. Kinda throws us for a loop because we've existed so long without it. We'd forgotten how wonderful it is.

But I wanted to ask him something that intuitively made me wonder if I was stepping on a landmine. I even asked Hol what she thought of me asking it, before I asked it - it felt to me maybe a boundary issue, at this point in the journey. None of my business, in other words. I asked if he'd been married before. Hol was like, you should've already asked and been answered by now. What are you? 15? LOL. But she didn't know, that I knew, already - it was a sore point he didn't want to think about, much less talk about.

He had mentioned that it had been 17 years since he'd had this kind of relationship. My curiosity chewed on that a couple days and started to drive me crazy. Resorting to dark humor, I asked if there were any jealous ex-wives I needed to worry about. And also reassured him, if he didn't want to talk about it now, that was just fine. I know I'm dealing with a complicated personal/emotional history here and all too often, for the alpha's the emotional stuff is kryptonite.

Ex #1 he married, the year after I was married the first time. He'd been in the service a while; one daughter the year after. Well, he was overseas for long stretches and when he came home to find out she'd been sleeping with the majority of the fleet while he was gone, that ended that. Some years later, he married #2. They were together for 18 years before adopting the D that will graduate next year. A week before they picked her up, she told him she just couldn't stand his scars and didn't feel romantically inclined toward him anymore. She is still peripherally in the picture. Still on his medical plan, and only shows up when she thinks she's going to get money - otherwise wants nothing to do with him. Not interested in the D either, from the description.

And that was why I was asking. There are certain pieces of information about me and my situation currently, that would be like dangling red meat in front of a lioness, if she knew about it. It's not like I don't think he could keep that secret either; but if he doesn't know - he can't slip up and make a mistake. His plan for this year includes cutting the last ties with her that he feels he has an obligation to provide as cleanly as possible. SO... the types of help I might be tempted to offer... need to be carefully considered. Mike was just fine with my income versus his; not all guys are. Buck knows I'm comfortable - as he will be, once he starts receiving his pension after finally completing a formal discharge (hopefully). Even if we don't make this more of a formal relationship. And I blab too much, according to some people. Because I'm still not cynical enough about the evil people do when there is money involved - it's just beyond my comprehension that people can be that way.

I feel I can trust him with that bit of info, but the question - for self-protection and minimizing his complexities to deal with - is when. He is very protective of me. Not possessive; just wants to keep me safe. So maybe I tell him, in general, but no specifics. I shared my history a bit too, with him, and sort of what I've learned as a result. He can read the rest - how/why it didn't work out - from how I say things most times and will ask if he's not sure. Our communication about things like that are already pretty well established and our knowledge of each other too. We already know each other's values pretty well. He's got a real good idea of how deep the pockets are around here, just from what I've been doing the last few years and the projects that are underway. Man pays attention, that's for sure. Remember, he was a confidante before I even saw the current farm.

So maybe I don't need to spell anything out. Just bite my tongue and rein my tendency to overshare in. Wait & see how serious things really do get... and wait & see what I feel like more months from now.

I guess I'm thinking out loud here again. Have I just gone off the deep end again? What say you? (I've already gotten Hol's opinion. Loud & clear.)

Hopalong:
I got confused about which "secret" you were considering sharing.
--Twiggy's trauma?
--the fact that you have considerable wealth?

I THINK you meant the latter, and agree, no need to spell it out unless/until you two are talking together about specific plans to join your lives, have him move to your mountain, etc. At or before that point, you just need to completely divorce it from notions of masculinity or femininity or ruggedness or power, and just present it in a matter-of-fact way that has no shade of entitlement. Money just what is. A fact. And a lovely one that enables you to enjoy your mountain plans, and would of course also enable you to take care of each other.

On the other hand, when I met M we were both specifically looking for commitment, and I let him know early I wasn't interested in being a "girlfriend" in this chapter, and he said he also saw marriage as the natural outcome. So since that was clear, I told him all about my finances (which fit on a napkin) almost immediately. I also mentioned on the 2nd or 3rd date, when his life stories made clear he had considerable wealth, that it was critical FOR ME that we have a prenup if we ever married. He was startled but appreciated it once I spelled out why (so noone, especially including his children, could ever fear I was in it for the wrong reasons).

I didn't learn the real amount of his assets until about 4 months in (I had just figured, from the family stories, houses in multiple, ambassadors, industrialists, etc). At that point I told him, "I could tell you right now what I'd ask for in a prenup--a bit to fix up my little house, which would be rented--and enough to live in a decent assisted living/continuing care facility so I wouldn't rot in a bad "home." He immediately said, would X be enough? Or Y? Those amounts were so stunning to me there was nothing more to say. It's clear he would take care of me fully. But I will still insist on the document, as we get closer to picking a date.

(It's taken me quite a while to internalize "will be taken care of" without fear of loss of independence, but M has consistently shown he wouldn't use it as malignant power over me. He does use male entitlement in an oblivious/intrusive way at times, but never uses his financial power as any sort of threat, only to enhance our lives together. I don't know how that might change if I were demented or ill, but I have legally protected myself against everything I can through the trust I have, plus the 5 Wishes document. The rest is personality stuff, and if I were too far gone to argue, I'm not sure my assertions of autonomy would be relevant -- or even possible -- then.

Buck is a different person so it might take him longer to absorb the difference in money between you. But it might be good not to fantasize too much Outlander into his psyche. Autonomy and independence are matters of respect more than power (money does equate to power to some degree, but it's all in whether it's weilded and how). I think you respect him so much that you would never even hint that if he accepts some support, that this has anything to do with his pure, core independent nature. And  you're wise to hold off and tread very lightly. (I nearly broke things off with M because he waded in to "help" my D without understanding the sensitivity of the damage and even my ongoing acceptance of No Contact without my existence being acknowledged. For him to start reaching out to her or even vaguely have "a plan" to was an unbearable use of his reflexive entitlement.)

I think it might be good to tell him something that really benefitted me to tell M, if you find it fits. M was batting away my attempts to give him things, treat him occasionally on my own dime, etc. One evening I explained to him that because of my Dad's habit, when he refused to receive, he was actually hurting the giver's feelings. Giving is an opportunity to show gratitude and love, and when he insisted I mustn't give or spend anything on him (which he thought was kind and generous of him) he was actually depriving me of something important: the joy I feel when I can show appreciation. I told him how much that distressed me as a kid, when my self-effacing (to a fault) father would wave away so many of my attempts to show love through a gift or gesture and he'd respond, "No, no, I don't need anything." The moment wasn't about my DAD'S need to be self-effacing, it was about MY need to show love. And my sweet Dad never realized that. Not his fault, just learning.

I'm probably way off track because I find your descriptions of the issues a little bit opaque, but that may just be the positive habit of discretion and respect for everyone's privacy. For which I salute you! But we're anonymous here, and safe.

Hugs
Hops

sKePTiKal:
Hops, we need an evening to share a bourbon and stories. LOL. What you wrote is SOOO helpful, while I'm flailing about over this. You advice is HEARD, and I think it's wise too. Simple, too. I'm not sure why I feel all pretzeled up over this. Maybe it's that one-way boundary thing... "here's everything and more you wanted to know about me but I'm not allowed to ask you anything (old taboo) because I don't have a right to ask".

Buck already knows the postage stamp version of Twiggy; if I was going to give him support with his own PTSD quirks... I needed to establish some credibility for sharing things I've learned, whether helpful and relevant to him or not. I can always validate his experience.

I know a good bit about him too... but I've had to ask. He doesn't volunteer information too much, except when he's telling stories. So I guess that's why I was so flustered about asking what could be considered private information outside my "need to know", right now. I don't really need the play by play or recipe for how he became who he is, now do I? I know what I see.

To be fair, he made a point of showing me his scars - precisely to find out if I really meant it, when I said "chicks dig scars" - LOL. Since his ex#2 made that the reason for leaving him, and he's only had way more surgeries since then - he wanted to see my reaction face to face. He only told me that today.

Surprise! I've seen way worse things in my day and they don't get in the way one bit.

lighter:
Amber:

I think your man has his plate about full right now. 

Maybe save some of the finer details for happy surprises later on.

You don't have to spill everything, all at once.  You're entitled to have your stuff, and he's entitled to have his... sounds like he's in a mood to hang on to some of his details for a bit.  I get that, particularly bc he's struggling, and maybe suffering too.  My ex's and history, the romantic dark stuff, would be the last stuff I'd want to talk about.

As you say, you guys know enough about each other, in all ways, that you've cleared yourselves for next level stuff. 

Just enjoy that knowledge, and slow down..... you don't have to out yourself, or all your secrets, or information...  however you want to think of it.  He doesn't need it to know how he feels about YOU.  You're enough, and you're fine the way you are, sans history, IMO.... for him.

I think he's looking forward to being enough for you, as he is. 

Some of this opinion might be the "living in the moment" stuff coming up for me.  The past really is the past... gone, nonexistent.  All we have is this moment, and it sounds like Buck, coming close to death, might understand that intuitively... deeply.... and be more rooted in the NOW. 

Or not.

Everything's OK, Amber. 

Lighter

sKePTiKal:
Seems as though I've been making a total muddle, trying to talk about things lately. I'm not getting my point (and what point would that be A?) across clearly. Time to let things settle some more until I know what I'm trying to say, I guess.

I did talk to Buck; and all is well there. Somehow he can understand my muddle and restate it back to me simpler and clearly getting my meaning. The anxiety over all that whole question thing and why I felt I needed to know... this all seems like a holdover from my past experience but I can't pinpoint what it was exactly. All I know is having the conversation - sans specifics - completely relaxed me around the topic and so I'm moving on, feeling better about my understanding of boundaries and what I can and can't ask.

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page