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Hopalong:

--- Quote ---Maybe a good T could help Hol learn, and process through the lessons she needs more quickly?
--- End quote ---

Sorry I didn't spot this, Amber, so asked you a dumb question. I was rushing to be somewhere but didn't mean to give your post short shrift...

Hugs
Hops

sKePTiKal:
Apparently co-dependence is a very bad word and she's NOT, she'll have ya know. LOL. But as we've tried to talk further, she's able to say/see that she's experiencing abandonment issues with the boyfriend. To the extent she questions whether she's important as a human being or not.

Mind you, she's only experiencing this emotionally. Intellectually, she knows none of that is true.

I need to process this. Anything I say, do to try to understand or comfort her or even my silence... is seen as "making it all about myself" (yeah, scratching my head about that) and she's obviously distressed - but don't go near her, don't touch her, and whatever you do you must withstand the torrent of upset, angry, hurt energy she's giving off.

We are getting to some good communication but I feel like I need a flameproof suit. Pretty sure the accusations being levelled at me aren't personally ABOUT ME. She even said that, right before jumping into another tirade. It's like I'm standing in for whomever is the problem here. I'm trying to talk about this in short snippets with her; not one long linear - but circular - discussion. But I'm going to need some safe topics to talk about in between; it's like she's on the verge of seeing it but it still terrifies her. So she needs the distraction of banal conversation (until that's rejected).

This is pretty HARD. But it's something she and I have gotten close to before. Obviously, I'm trying to just hang in there with her and let her "drive". In the process, I see some very strange ideas that concern me - but at this point are probably irrelevant out of context. I let her yell last night; we're way back up in the hollar - I don't think she could be heard as loud as she is. That would at least use up some energy - LOL.

There is grief which she isn't letting herself feel. She feels so badly for her girlfriend, it's like she won't allow herself to have any grief - even though she worked with B for years and even dated him. And I think she equates grieving with weakness; self-pity that kind of thing. I was able to suggest that her protectiveness of the girlfriend's feelings is perhaps a bit of "over-responsibility". She didn't respond but I know she heard me. She'll think about that.

She's really angry at herself about the DUI. We were talking a bit about the future work after losing their crew chief - and she said she could work in Richmond, except for the driving thing now gets in the way.

Work would HELP her right now; structured, exhausting, 14 hr days of work, 5 days a week. It would let her expend her energy productively while giving her cognitive brain a rest from what she's struggling with. AHA... yes, there is a pattern. Whenever she's had extended unstructured free time, she revisits all this that's her "poison arrow" problem to solve. Whatever it is. (And no, I'm not "making it all about me" by referencing one of my experiences... LOL.)

On a superficial level, these interactions are pretty abusive. But that's just NOT who she is. I'm protecting myself. It wouldn't just appear out of nowhere either. Stress or no. And she's regularly apologizing, when she gets her head above the storm she's experiencing. I hope we can get this sorted out. For her sake... and my blood pressure... LOL.

Hopalong:
Oh, Amber. Careful.

I am heartbroken to hear H will scream at and blame you that way.
I do NOT want you living with that possibility when something in her life goes awry.

You love her more than anything but please don't give up your serenity to this.

I think emergency T-sessions, because this is not okay.

Much love and concern,
Hops

lighter:
Amber:

I would consider withdrawing with love until Hol can speak to you without yelling, name calling, blaming, or changing the subject until one topics done.

You don't have to engage when she's unable to remain calm.  Eventually, she'll learn she has to be respectful, and observe certain rules in order to engage you.

This is a great lesson for communicating with everyone in her life, IMO.

And about the codependence... .everyone has some of that.  It's a human thing. I was asked what I thought about being codependent, and I said I always thought it was for the parents, and partners of addicts.

It's not.  It's for everyone, and we can all learn something about ourselves that creates more resilience, and awareness. 

I'd ask Hol what she thinks codependence is.  Maybe she has a very negative definition that's not at all true?

Lighter

sKePTiKal:
I'll continue chipping away at what she thinks co-dependence is. I have enough of my own questions that it wouldn't hurt me at all, to look at it. Hops, I'm really pretty good at defending myself and not letting myself get triggered by these tirades. I have let it trigger me and didn't like it; stopped it.

Here's the thing: I have the clear awareness - and she's even said as much - that what she is expressing isn't about ME at all. I am merely the role substitute, for the person she's really talking to. And she's unfortunately had enough stuff in her life, that generated such energetic emotion, that she's been using this method since she was 14 - loud, aggressive, and blunt - to be HEARD. But now. she wants more than to be heard. She wants answers, solutions, and way forward out of that place. She doesn't like it either.

Which leads me to the lightbulb realization I had: many times, she's mentioned that she believes there was something that happened when she and Amy were small. It terrifies and sickens her... but she can't remember what exactly happened. I of course, suggested that it would be good to find a way to bring that memory to consciousness because as a grown woman, she could now deal with it. But she's not sure; she's thinking she might want to just completely let the memory go and simply try to correct the symptoms that manifest as a result of that recurring anxiety/fear that continues to plague her, even in her sleep. I maintain the symptoms won't go away until she deals with whatever that thing is. She gets respite from it when she's very busy; mentally & physically engaged. But during any "downtime"... there's no rest for the weary.

I can't choose for her either. But I do think I'm well positioned these days to protect myself. It's gonna be OK.

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