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Relationship/s

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sKePTiKal:
Oh Hops.... I swear it might be the phase of the moon or something. I understand your reactions (I think) and I know I'd find them annoying (and a little confusing) too. Just breathe. Take your day off and do Hops' things.

Only one thing in your narrative jumped out at me. Words and linguistics and the specific word "resistant". I'll be blunt; resistant sounded like a softer version of rejection. As if he was feeling you were rejecting his attempts at connection with you - through cooking and his old world manners - with your boundary, in fact and therefore he was pressing that issue with the expected anxiety. I might just be reading into that too much... but I thought I heard that.

And that gives me blips on the radar. Nothing huge and threatening... just something to watch out for. Sometimes I wonder if it's possible to adopt the language and analysis of therapy so much, and looking at relationships through that lens, that one can forget that the rest of the world doesn't.

I think is just a tiff Hops. Part of the transition/changes you're both making in becoming an "us". But I hear just a few worrisome things that mean the substance - M not liking or respecting your boundary and taking it the wrong way - could be a recurring situation. Let the dust settle, stay quiet a day, and then explore how it looks in hindsight.

Hopalong:
CB, I'm your sister in gum surgery....so sorry you've got that coming up! But I'm glad you have found a practitioner to trust. So much NOT fun, but I'll be thinking of you. Hope whatever needs fixing is wonderfully fixed. (I'll have two...one to snip the frenulum and a later likely graft. Ugh.)

And thank you for bringing up power imbalance. And money. I think it's important for me to start getting a few new customers for my companion gig. I had let it slide after the gentleman died, and then the lady broke her hip, and then my third one began needing PT style help I don't/can't do. And then M arrived in my life, paying for every meal, and the focus shifted to just letting myself enjoy it because of his constant assurances that it was irrelevant, he delights in paying for everything, etc.

The concern would be -- how would that imbalance get expressed during marriage if we're not getting along? I can survive on social security, but there's zero slack. I used some of my savings for the part of our trip that I took on my own, to Oslo. Glad I did, but the level has dropped below a good emergency-savings threshold. So, I can sell my redundant old car (which I've kept more for emotional than practical reasons) and/or, go back to work now. Or both.

I think doing this would help me look at M and me with more calm, as it will reinforce that I can continue to cope with life independently. For as long as I can anyway. Don't WANT to be on my own, but as you say, it makes all the difference to know that one can. Didn't want to work at 70 but millions of people have to.

I have a worry that M would take this personally and it might contribute to us becoming more alienated, though, so I'll have to think about it. Seems to me I would have to lie to him and say it was because I miss the oldsters, that's why. And that would not be true. In occasional moments I've missed them, because I do love the very old, but I did not miss the scheduling and expectations, etc. I still visit a few of the very-elder friends I made and do enjoy that. So, need to ponder more.

Amber, thank you. I agree it was just a tiff but also share your concern about the rumbling thought that perhaps M disregarding my boundaries and then resenting me if I maintain them...is a worry. Seems to me that we are in very different places about communication, owning one's feelings and not reverting to passive-aggressive stuff. (Although I just read something that suggests I'm doing that too...one of the questions was, Do you avoid someone you're upset with? Truth is, I do. I feel I absolutely have to withdraw from him at times in order to calm myself. And maybe that's passive-aggression. Worth thinking about.)

Tupp, that perspective on M maybe not being ready himself really stopped me in my tracks. That was compassionate to where he is and really insightful. He has showered me with so much certainty about his commitment and determination about his feelings for me, our perfect fit forever, how absolutely positive he is...that it never occurred to me that in an unconscious way, he might be dealing with his own uncertainties by trying to drown them out. Huh. That's a really helpful thought. He really is spinning (great term, Lighter) and maybe that's one thing that's happening. He's using his intense verbal power to create such clouds of words and hyperbole that he can't get enough stillness in his head to allow any doubt, any frustration, and especially any uncertainty, to come through. It would demand he sit with the possibility of loss again. And that completely freaks him out.

Whew, whew, and I am sooooooooooo lucky y'all are here and willing to engage with this blow-by-blow stuff as I try to figure out whether M and I can navigate this relationship to a positive place.

I think he was also affected by the anniversary of his wife's death and reacting to it all over the place, while perhaps not realizing that's what he was doing. (He gets hyper-rational and all professor-superior when he's feeling something, and pronounces/declares/explains/holds forth about what is happening...to a degree that I think blinds him to some things. Certainly to tuning in with awareness and sensitivity to my feelings. He's struggling with his own and has his defensive tools, which come from all those years in authority.)

Ah well. I guess it's inevitable that relationships go through these painful lessons and adjustments, and the truth is, I can't yet see the result in clear focus. It'll take time and work. It's worth trying.

I still love the man. Still have hope for a happy future with him.

Hugs
Hops

 

lighter:

--- Quote from: CB123 on September 22, 2019, 10:37:38 AM ---Hops,

The red flag I see as you think out loud, is that you will have to "come up with a reason" for why you are wanting to go back to work and that you are concerned that it will alienate him if you do. Whether that would happen or not, there is something in your relationship with him that makes you think its likely, and your self-preservation is already trying to figure out how to protect yourself by making up an acceptable story about your thinking. The reason that worrieHops, CB

--- End quote ---

Hops, do you feel as though you've given up some of your freedom, at this point?
 The freedom to work as you wish, to come and go as you wish, to make plans sans M, as you wish?

Remember, my mama said.... "once you give up your freedom, you never get it back."  I think there's a lot of truth to that, and my mother was very strong in her relationship with her very strong husband.  He was wealthy when she met him, and wanted things his way.  When she stood up to him, he'd buck, then end up giggling, bc he adored her strength as much as he adored her soft, nurturing side.  The part of her that stood her ground was a delight to him, even though she had to put up with the discomfort of having him challenge her, and she did it with the certainty that her time, her space, her needs, wishes and desires were every bit as important as his. 

Just a story, Hops. Not even sure it applies.

Lighter

Hopalong:
Thanks, all of you, so much.

CB, I get it, all the way. I think having had a stroke in June also affects my practical thinking. Am I tolerating more poor communication (over boundaries, including accepting a No) with M because I feel more fear about aging alone than I would if it'd been a decade or two back? It won't hurt me to go back to work. And now that I think about it, I doubt I'd even need to explain it to M. Just tell him, I decided to go back to work for a while, since going to Norway. Or, decided to sell my old car. (It's not worth much, I just love it and it's good in the winter.) The CRV is 17 years old with 150K miles and the "new" one is 11 with 50K! The difference is clear...only sensible to keep the Prius (was a miracle to get it cheap) and let go of the CRV. Decision made. At the moment the CRV is dead in the driveway since I haven't driven it enough to keep the battery happy. All mechanicals in it are great, maintenance kept up, tires are new. I'd accept getting snowed in, which I generally enjoy anyway.

Amber, this is the kernel of everything that stresses me with M:

--- Quote ---I hear just a few worrisome things that mean the substance - M not liking or respecting your boundary and taking it the wrong way - could be a recurring situation.
--- End quote ---
It's both ironic and a relief that he's seeing his T today and I'm seeing mine, too.

Lighter, thanks for asking whether I've given up this:

--- Quote --- The freedom to work as you wish, to come and go as you wish, to make plans sans M, as you wish?
--- End quote ---
I really haven't. And I won't/can't, etc.
I don't have concern that M would try to tell me what to do, where to go, who to see, time on my own. (I have a small amount of fear over how he'd handle "taking charge" of me if I were old and helpless, another stroke, for example.) He's not controlling in that he just accepts whatever I tell him I'm doing. If/when he's feeling insecure, he'll whiiiiiine "I haven't seen you in two daaaaaays!" as though it's pure misery. But he never indicates that he feels he is entitled to stop me from using my own time in my own way. I wouldn't let him anyway.

I think my biggest issue with him is simply the verbal stuff....I say No thanks and he perserverates and when he repeats and repeats and repeats something to get his way I reach a point where I think my head will explode. Lately, when he does this, it's begun to affect my feelings for him.

Last night, after his departmental picnic (which I greatly enjoyed, beautiful place near the mountains, wonderful conversations) we talked a lot on the ride home. I told him flat out that our previous struggle for intimacy when I kept saying No, don't do that and he persisted was actually traumatic for me, and that when I'd told him so, he'd switched the topic instantly to how HE felt. And I get it, that it was upsetting to him for different reasons, but that I'd never felt heard about it and that the way it went down since, with the stupid argument over him asking me to come over yesterday to watch him make beans....had added together to give me a serious doubt about our future that I hadn't had before. He sobered right up and said we need to set a time to seriously talk through all this. I asked him if he knew was gaslighting was, and he didn't, and when I explained it, he said that is NOT me, that sounds malicious and mean and cruel and I'm upset that you'd make that comparison. (It's true, he's not mean.)

My overall concern is that getting through to him, through whatever it is that prevents him from taking in the information when I set a boundary or say NO, is so exhausting and stressful. I repeated that one of the biggest issues for me is that when I say No, he doesn't accept it, but keeps pounding and pounding on what he wants. I had a feeling that he heard me. I think he was shocked that I was now saying, No, I'm not certain about marriage now. That got through to him, I think.

(He was repeatedly bringing up marriage yesterday, house buying, the whole original plan. So on some level he knows this is critical. And that's good.)

He still doesn't get the difference between an I-message and a You-message (I know, Amber, this is probably seeing things through the psychobabble filter). He likes to say: I feel that YOU... and merrily goes about analysing me, and never analyses himself.

Thank god for therapy, is all I can say. On we go. He's picking me up at noon because I lost the fob to the Prius in the grass out at the picnic. I'll take the backup one over there today to retrieve my car.

Later this afternoon the young Spanish poet is coming by with his lovely wife and we'll drink wine and brainstorm some ideas for releasing his new book locally. I have a couple outlets in mind that have nothing to do with the University.

Hugs
Hops

Twoapenny:
Just a very quick thing, Hops, that occurred to me reading your last post, and it's of a practical nature - when you tell M "No thanks" do you or are you able to offer an alternative instead?  Just wondering, with my autistic hat on - I know that my son (and myself, to a certain extent) always needs 'something' - an empty space in front of him, literally or metaphorically, is too much to cope with and causes anxiety.  It just popped out at me as you mention M's repeated questioning if you don't want to do something.  I'm just wondering if he can't cope without a Plan B - and if you being able to suggest one might take his anxious response away?

You may already be doing this, and, of course, he might just not like to take no for an answer :)  But it might be something worth trying to see if it helps? xx

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