Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Relationship/s
CB123:
Hops,
I hadnt realized that the issue of financial security was part of the equation. I do understand, truly I do. That was a large consideration in my marriage as well, so I get it. I stayed much longer than I would have because of finances, and of course the kids.
I'm wishing you the very best and I hope you understand my concern is well meant, however clumsily I might express it, dear friend.
CB
Twoapenny:
Hops, I just thought I'd mention something I've discovered as I've been researching communes for myself and son :)
In the UK, there are ever increasing numbers of people setting up, or becoming part of, housing co-operatives. Instead of all living together in a shared house, people are either buying land to build multiple properties on, or they're buying already existing homes, perhaps several in the same street or on the same housing estate. Another thing some are doing is buying a large property and then converting it into flats or small houses. The properties are then either sold or rented out, the benefit being you get your own space and live your own life, but you are part of a community that literally lives only steps away, so it's easy for people to get together, help each other out and to share costs for things like bulk buying food, or sharing a veg patch or something like that. Car share is pretty popular in these sorts of places as well.
I think the point of setting it up as a co-operative is something to do with the way it all works legally (it means that people can't sell their house to a developer who wants to build fifteen houses in the back garden or something like that).
Anyway, the only reason I mention it is in case it might be worth you doing a bit of research at some point to see if similar sorts of set ups exist in the States, so that you might have an option between 'relationship' and 'poor and alone'. I do understand your concerns exactly - I have exactly the same worries about myself and son. And unlike you, I have already given up hope of meeting someone who might change that situation for me :) I might work on that at a later date :) But anyway, I thought I'd mention it as you get some of the perks of being part of a like minded community without having to keep washing other people's plates whenever you want a sandwich or having to move into a retirement village :)
Hope you are readjusting to being home okay and catching up on sleep and Pooch cuddles :)
Hopalong:
--- Quote ---"Make me feel good" seems to be the implied message. Or "why are you not impressed with my awesomeness?" and "How dare you have a different perception, opinion or feeling than I do?"
--- End quote ---
Thanks, Amber. I think the first two quotes are pretty apt, for that jungle week when he just let loose with ego, insecurity and obsession with his own feelings...about Costa Rica, the house as symbolic of it all for him, his accomplishment in designing and building it, blah and blah. There's lots of loss and dislocation and unrootedness that it's all about. The third thing doesn't apply really, because fundamentally M does respect me. My mind.
What happened today was that the T was brilliantly present and observant as ever, and stopped M every time he'd either interrupt or contradict something I'd just said. He spelled out to M his habit of eloquently replying to me, Oh yes, I understand this, but...or however...and then "rewriting" what I said to fit his own narrative. (How wonderful our relationship is, how much he loves me, etc.) He also talks a lot saying "we this" and "we that" and the T stopped that too.
It was very perceptive and really kind of remarkable. The thing that makes me feel better is that M is genuinely humble and receptive in therapy. We even talked about an aborted intimate encounter when I felt completely unheard in a way that made me just give up. Anyway, I held nothing back. I described every detail of the experience from my perspective and it was a huge relief to do that with the counselor. M was distressed to hear it but he heard it. More significantly, I described exactly how I'd felt at the jungle house and during different times during the trip. M had written me an email saying, "The last 17 days were completely wonderful." It struck me as a wonderful condensation of the pattern and the T totally got it. I said there were 4 or 5 days of it that were the opposite of wonderful to me, how vulnerable and isolated I felt and how much I'd disliked M at the time for being so self absorbed.
I literally think when M is almost incantatorily talking nonstop (his form of self soothing, I think), he actually has no idea about my distress level. He's not trying to be cruel but doesn't realize how he's not making an empathic connection, but staying cerebral. The T got it too but didn't blame or criticize M; he's just working to help him see it. He advised him his professoritis is not working for him and that for him to get the commitment he wants from me, he is going to have to be the student, not the teacher. M agreed with him, agreed with all of it.
We are both colossally impressed with the T, and M is not aggressive or defensive at all in the sessions. He seems hugely motivated to make it work. I'm not saying I assume or am positive it will, just that M's attitude in therapy is amazingly open and receptive, in my view. (I've been in therapy with an ex who made it very obvious that he had contempt for both me and T, and we divorced. M's behavior is the opposite.)
M also pointed out that except for a couple of months after his divorce, he's never been in therapy before and I'm "way ahead of him." I thought that was fair (I've spent decades in therapy) and the T said, all the more reason you need to be listening to her. He also described me to M as being very concerned with how others are feeling and that he wanted me to be more responsive in the moment when M goes into his obliviousness.
All in all, it was a huge relief to have the T express in front of M that he clearly got how vulnerable I was feeling during the trip, and he'd ask M, did you notice how she was feeling in this moment or that one? And M's responses showed M himself that he had missed it. That was validating.
I don't think it's malice or hidden horrors. I just think he's lived in his brain for a very long time, and in different cultures from me, and with different kinds of women (never an American), and has an oversized ego (insecurity) and he says over and over that I am different from any woman he's ever known, etc etc. He enumerates why and he really means it. But, his lists of compliments don't fix things for me --I want empathy, not a list of assets, and the T totally gets this. Whew.
And...we do love each other. I don't doubt his sincerity, at all. If he continues with me in this process, I think it's worth it for both of us, no matter what the final outcome is. He seems deeply committed to it and also seems to have huge respect for the T. I've never seen him react to another man that way, have only seen him with his peers/academic colleagues, when they're jousting.
All in all, I feel better. I see the cardiologist tomorrow and am anxious about that, but if it's a reassuring visit I know I'll be feeling way better this time tomorrow night.
Hugs
Hops
Hopalong:
((((CB))))
Of course I know your concern is well meant! Sweet woman.
And it's not misplaced, either. I am vigilant about what's happening and holding nothing back in the T sessions, and intend to be more open with M as well.
I don't know what will happen but if I need to end it at some point, I believe I'll be able to. Old age alone or broke does scare me but I'm way better off than many people and my fears may be bigger than they need to be. The feelings are real about that, but I earn enough social security to survive as long as I can function independently. I'm just haunted by abandoned oldsters in nursing homes and so forth. Still, I will not let financial security lull me into a bad marriage. Fate worse than I don't know what.
And M knows I'm not marrying him unless therapy really moves us into a balanced and healthy place. I don't want to pre-judge what he's capable of in therapy, because he's actually got an amazing mind and willing heart. He's deficient in EQ, but I don't think it's fair to rule out that he could grow as much as anybody. His motivation seems real and profound and his behavior reflects it. Rather than coming out of a session like today's mad at me or defensive, he's more tender than ever. He genuinely wants it to work.
There's a lot of good in him. A few pink flags I can live with but I will confront myself if I see red ones. The man's lived in a bubble for a long time but he seems desperate to break out of it.
love,
Hops
Hopalong:
(((((Tupp))))) -- We're on the same page!
One persistent interest of mine for years has been aging issues, including co-housing, shared housing, etc. I know a good deal about it. Unfortunately the only cohousing communities here (there are two) are too expensive for me. This area's very pricey even for that.
When I was still hoping to inherit my mother's big house one of my plans was to get two or three female friend roommates and create our own co-house for old age, pooling resources etc. But that didn't work out because of my brother (and the fact that my friends have their own plans and generally are better off). I checked out the other two as well. Then as I've talked about a lot here, I've helped elderly folks in independent apartments in old-age developments, and learned what they pay each month. Out of my reach.
But. There's a new nonprofit here I've begun to volunteer for that is based on healthy people (mostly in 60s or 70s) doing for free for frail elders exactly the kind of thing I've done for pay. Then, one day, if you need similar help so you can age in your home as long as possible, you can turn to this network for chores, drivers, shopping help etc -- at no charge. It's a brilliant concept that's already underway in some cities and I'm looking forward to working on it here.
That does not resolve anything medical or if you're no longer mobile ... but it's still a good step. And I have an interview for an elderly couple next week so I can start doing some PT elder-help paid work again, which I've taken a break from for many months now, since the old gent died and the two women became too ill for me to help. It'll do me good to work again, independence wise.
Hugs
Hops
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