Relationship/s

[Hopalong]

I keep starting down the path of castigating myself for having had a meltdown last week, but if I'm fair (friend-ly) to myself, what it really amounted to was a few days of strong feelings and some vulnerability and retreat.

And now I feel myself on the way to the climb out. Some things I have done, baby steps, to improve my mental state and create positivity even with winter coming:

--finally got through to M's housecleaner, agreed on a price (oof) and booked her for twice a month. No longer sure I'll feel comfortable hanging out at M's "pod place" so the "what to do with myself other than drive around" for five hours is a dilemma. He works in his study every morning and though I prefer afternoons, she is only free in the mornings. And she is the only one I am certain will wear the mask while working, as she does at M's. So...long story short, after Tgiving I'll see how I feel about it and decide what to do then.

If anybody has ideas on places one can go to sit outside during winter...I will take Pooch and can always delight her with a series of bundled-up walks in new places, cold weather or not. But I really don't have the energy these days to walk for five hours or another place to go that's virus-safe besides M's. (Cleaner takes 2-3, and doctor said stay out 2 more after she leaves house.)

M will be pleased to have me come there I think. The only way I can continue to have a pod place is to go there twice a month in the mornings this winter. I can work on paperwork and be separate from him (he'll only come out of his study to grab coffee) in the dining room/LR area, and bring a book. I would just do a couple hours there I think and try to drive around the rest of the time. It's just a weird, weird thing. I am aware of one dog-friendly restaurant with a semi-outdoor patio with big heaters, so I could try to wind up there around lunchtime for the last two hours before I go home. There will be people in masks, but decent good air circulation and well spaced tables.

Ideally (this is so disjointed) I'd feel generally better if I can plan things for those cleaner mornings that do NOT involve any dependence on M's hospitality. If I can carefully plan a list of dog-walks plus errands that are as safe as I can figure out, plus perhaps a long drive to a country town to meet a friend for an outside lunch (that won't be possible all winter)...I'll do the best I can to minimize M-time.

What I had otherwise been thinking was that depending on how I feel seeing him after Tgiving, if I re-wobble it might be better for me to withdraw entirely from contact with him. Not out of anger or anything, just to get myself a good distance from the dream-dregs until I'm positive I'm in an entirely new phase of how I view the relationship (dependent on the kind of objectivity Lighter describes that I'm not skilled at). I was shocked by how wrong I was last week about having gotten all the way to the other side.

But if I CAN maintain my own center, I should not be emotionally hobbled by that sort of contact. Especially during mornings. It's the go-for-wine-and-dinner-coziness that was pretty undermining I think. Nothing was wrong with all the feelings that bubbled up. I don't feel them now. I think it was grief residue that I had sealed off and avoided, and it just came up and out.

I feel lighter and calmer because it did. If seeing him now and then as "pod refuge from housecleaning plumes" I still feel that way, it'll be okay. Just yakking my way through it here.

Hmmm. One last thought. M has a whole first floor near-apartment, basement  area, that is literally unused. He comes through occasionally to fetch a book from the stacks or wine from the wine room, but wouldn't be doing that often at all in the mornings. That would feel less connected and also be a space in his home that doesn't have all the associations from the previous rituals we shared. I think when I go I'll ask if he'd mind if I worked down there (paperwork in a big tote.) It'd help I think.

hugs
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Can Pooch be left in the car for any length of time, Hops?  I'm just wondering whether any museums or galleries might be open and manageable enough with distance and masks.  Or if she can't stay in the car maybe you could leave her at M's after a walk and you head off to a gallery or something for a couple of hours if you don't have enough paperwork to do to keep you busy?  It is a tricky one with everything being so difficult to manage at the moment.  Or drive 90 minutes - walk Pooch one hour (too much?) - picnic lunch in car - 90 minutes drive back?  Is that too much driving?  Maybe you can do one morning at M's the next out and about or something?  It does sound tricky logistically.  Pesky virus.

[Hopalong]

Thanks, Tupp, those are great proposals! I probably wouldn't do the gallery thing as I'm avoiding enclosed spaces and most such are closed around here anyway. But longer drives and picnic in car...those all sound smart to me. (Pooch would survive some in-car time, but I probably wouldn't do that since I won't be going indoors. The restaurant I mentioned allows dogs in that semi-shielded propane-heated almost-open-sided patio with plastic drape not-completely-closed walls. It's drafty which is good.)

In a way, those mornings are opportunities to:
--work with my body to get moving and active, which I avoid especially mornings
--develop thus better sleep routine
--get creative to figure out new places to drive to and walk in (finding horses or cows to feed carrots to brings me joy always, loads of pastures around here). If I could find an open-ended BARN that would allow a visitor, I'd be in heaven.
--find friends also interested in new walks, lunch picnics or somehow-safe non-indoor places

I'll weather it! And if it's super-difficult, tell cleaner we're going to have to do just once a month until warm weather returns. That's another option.

Thanks for the ideas!

hugs
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

OK - I'll give this a shot. Most of what I've thought about in conjunction with this "friend after romantic relationship" thing comes from observing Hol's tribulations in this. That may NOT however, apply to you. So maybe grist for the mill, while sorting out your own feelings about this? Mind you, this is all speculative - because many combinations of "relationship" at different levels can be possible between two people - depending on the people & circumstances. Of that, I'm certain. Does it happen? Not that often.

In Hol's age cohort the "friends with benefits" phenom is quite common, but they didn't invent it. I'm not sure we did either - but we were no stranger to it either.

I have watched her multiple times, try to maintain some kind of friend contact - with her ex-husband (went OK; but only a decade after they divorced); a couple of other relationships; then this last long-term one. The last one - let's call it the MB decade - she fought tooth & nail and was party to wearing her self-esteem down to get him to acknowledge that what she felt, thought, said and wanted was just as important in the relationship as his wishes. The  last half of their time together was full of heated arguments & hurt feelings on a regular basis. It was exceedly tedious and painful to witness for me. Just make a decision already! LOLOL.

Then it dawned on me that it was a power struggle. That what she wanted was for him to participate, engage, with the situation between them... and she was determined to stick out the suffering even though her feelings for him were pretty much nil at that point; she was miserable - even tells the story to this day that she had to repeat to herself "I'm good at my job" on the drive to work because MB would discount how difficult her work was. This youngish woman has always had a healthy ego... and been extremly strong emotionally and in her self-value. She knows she's capable, competent, independent and effectively compassionate. But she was on the edge of losing that, especially the last year.

Her relief when he finally decided to break up was just as intense. She took the road trip, with Knuckles, to re-discover what it felt like to just be her again... and while the trip was longer than initially planned, she did accomplish what she set out to do. About 2 months. But then ensued the campaign to try to maintain friendship. Of course, there were loose ends to tie up on the business side of spending a decade with someone.

Over the course of 3 years, talking about this - it still comes up for her, intensely emotional at times - she's been able to say that she is trying to "win". To wheedle, cajole, reason, find just the right metaphor or analogy - to make him see that she wasn't a bad person just because she was DIFFERENT from him, and felt/thought things different than he did. She made gestures; left messages; even visited him to pick up/move stuff with the current BF - who was engaged with on a mutually respectful level, but not HER.

MB had even gone to far as to concoct a total fantasy of how evil she was to MB during the relationship and tried to shop that to her friends -- who'd been "in the loop" of her confidence all along. When confronted on it - he simply slunk away. But Hol wouldn't give up trying... hoping... that some day, some how he would "see the light" and there could be a full debriefing of what happened, apologies on both sides, shake hands and know the other wasn't seen as a villain.

That was the stakes in the power struggle. Ultimately, she did NOT win that time. But she fought and in some ways still struggles for a way to fight longer - because the reality of her, then & now - is not what he thinks or manufactured a fantasy of what it is. Somehow - her self-image is tied to succeeding in that struggle.

So that's how I understand fighting to maintain a friendship after a romantic relationship. It's foreign to me; especially how it's important to her to "win" in this struggle.

More later; gotta go.

[sKePTiKal]

My "fleeing" response - whether with a new relationship or solo - was simply that there was no point for me whatsoever, that I needed anything from that former partner in the way of respect or kindness and so I "ran fast & far"; reinventing myself as part of that process.

I think in my case, I let myself be too defined by the partner in relationships too. Such that each time I moved on; I was able to grab just a little bit of me again - before I repeated the error. Still don't know what I was trying to work out; since I'm not doing that anymore - not sure it matters, now, to dissect it. It was one of the dumb things I did trying to cope with the FOO stuff.

There was only one instance where I tried to hang on to something; and I'd been flat out rejected and abandoned by a "fatal attraction" type relationship. It had lasted about 3 years or so - but we were distinctly incompatible on some serious points that couldn't be overcome. So I fell into the whole distraught, pleading, "I can't live without you" role. (Blech, btw.) For about 6 months. And I worked overtime to convince myself that was true, too.

Then Ex#2 spotted me and scooped me up. And while we got along OK for 14 years and accomplished some significant things together... it didn't end well either. I abandoned him. We spoke a couple of times, and I went back to load up a cabinet he'd bought me that I couldn't take when I moved out. Found out the new sucker (wife) had her own furniture and the association for him, with me & the cabinet meant it had to go. I had ignored what his ex-wife and friends said about him; thinking I could manage what they couldn't. Pride is a painful thing to deal with sometimes. But even though I'm in the next county from him now; I have absolutely no desire to speak with him about anything. Which seems weird - coz he is quite knowledgeable about what I'm attempting on the farm. But I have the "take that" attitude (which might be a little of the fight reflex) to do things my own way; succeed or not as I will... versus doing things his way; and the man was always so damnably right all the time. But I know it's not the ONLY way to succeed. 20 years later, I'm sure of that.

I hope some of this germinates some ideas for ya Hops. Obviously, the first quote is the easiest to remember. Being short & concise. LOLOLOL. Like I mentioned, it's a distillation of all this babble.

[Hopalong]

I think the power struggle to be seen as one wants to see oneself absolutely applied to me...about 30 years ago. With M I've been much quicker than I was in youth to recognize deep incompatibilities and just figure it's more "he can't" than "he won't." For me, having it all sink in after a year and 5 months is speedy compared to the yearning cycles I was in during a couple relationships in my 40s that left damage in their wake that lasted for years.

I don't think M has damaged me that way. Being in that relationship has been overall good for me. It brought me out of over 20 years of only imagining myself solo -- I still wanted connection theoretically, but had no actively "coupled" experience in the world for that long. I got to find out that my rusty heart could still feel love for a partner. Ultimately, it just turned out that I can't alter the hardest aspects of his personality and (the harder part) don't need to. Want to, sure -- but that's the unwinnable power struggle. I am just not up for that much trying....it's time for the universe to offer me a little ease. If it does, lovely. If it doesn't, I can plod on working to create it within myself.

I think the only way to "win" my peace is just to do peace. To find that internal detachment Lighter talks about and practice it, any time I'm in his presence. And if that doesn't go well for me, or it seems upsetting or unreachable, then that makes him someone I should not spend much time with. Not to "wrong" M, but to right myself when I'm blown off balance.

I was talking to my T yesterday and she observed (again) that I am very sensitive. I think that's true. It's not always a good thing. Works well for poetry, but not for the prose of living. Sometimes, which Hol might have felt too, it just hurts too much not to be appreciated or valued, so one has to avoid an ungenerous spirit that's so consumed with itself it can't give you that basic behavior. Listening and respecting.

What you have with B sounds soooooooo different that way.

The man I'm meeting tomorrow described in one of his blog posts how he prefers to listen over talk. I get the feeling he's pretty nerdy. I like that. Anyway, I'm looking forward to meeting him. He's extremely intelligent, which is a draw. We already discovered some odd things in common--his deceased sister was at my small college during the exact same years I was. Her face looks familiar but I didn't know her. He wrote a very moving eulogy for her and was clearly shattered by the loss. I was touched by his capacity to appreciate her and the way he wrote about her.

And VERY oddly, his business has been a huge family company...multiple stores kind of thing. I was in the same industry, though a niche corner of it, in my last FT job with Nboss. I know a good deal about it and even attended some of the classic trade shows. Difference is, at my core it does not interest me at ALL, except for the green/sustainability niche, which his business has had nothing to do with. Different values, different goals. I imagine our tastes are super different but it's funny that there's that unusual overlap with a stranger.

We'll see. We already decided we will have plenty to talk about. It's good for me to get out and this will probably be the last "outdoor date" people could dream up anyway, before spring. So I'll enjoy it in the moment for whatever it is. He lives in another town a little over an hour away but offered to drive up.

Tgiving is my favorite holiday, with no agonizing associations. Just gratitude. I think I'm going to be able to enjoy it with M, just tapping into the gratitude and the present and peace.

hugs
Hops

[lighter]

I think the power struggle to be seen as one wants to see oneself absolutely applied to me...about 30 years ago. With M I've been much quicker than I was in youth to recognize deep incompatibilities and just figure it's more "he can't" than "he won't." For me, having it all sink in after a year and 5 months is speedy compared to the yearning cycles I was in during a couple relationships in my 40s that left damage in their wake that lasted for years.
I think standing up for yourself, asking for what you need and, finally, willingness to do battle was part shield and part messenger limiting the time and trauma to yourself.  At least, I suspect that's a part of fewer wounds, less time invested trying when you saw only words sans action.
I don't think M has damaged me that way. Being in that relationship has been overall good for me.  I agree. It brought me out of over 20 years of only imagining myself solo -- I still wanted connection theoretically, but had no actively "coupled" experience in the world for that long. I got to find out that my rusty heart could still feel love for a partner. Ultimately, it just turned out that I can't alter the hardest aspects of his personality and (the harder part) don't need to. Want to, sure -- but that's the unwinnable power struggle. I am just not up for that much trying....it's time for the universe to offer me a little ease. If it does, lovely. If it doesn't, I can plod on working to create it within myself.

I think the only way to "win" my peace is just to do peace. To find that internal detachment Lighter talks about and practice it, any time I'm in his presence. When I think of M, I picture him reacting and reacting to his past...parents, ex wife, failures.....ego wounding he's patched over with thick, defensive walls.  He can't see or hear much past them, but he assumes and takes for granted his will is enough...wanting will carry him and you through....his will carried him into a successful career.  He doesn't understand how it's working against him in relationship with you.  His ego can't take the hit, so he flinched from self reflection and names you the problem, imo.

I also think M over values what he brings to relationship table....for many men, breadwinner is THE only job they feel obligated to fill.  Maybe M doesn't understand he's obligated to listen, share, take turns bc he doesn't understand healthy relationships.  He understands selfish nurturing baby relationship, and youre6the adoring cheerleader.  Some women are comfortable in that limited role, but they make a deal.....the happy ones find their joy elsewhere.  They aren't reactive....they go with the flow, are nice to the breadwinner and engaged happily with their own interests....at least that's what I've observed in the more successful relationships with men similar to M.
 And if that doesn't go well for me, or it seems upsetting or unreachable, then that makes him someone I should not spend much time with. You see what's there and underneath, Hops. With curiosity, knowing you can walk anytime you want to.
 Not to "wrong" M, but to right myself when I'm blown off balance. Getting blown off balance is opportunity to experiment....to figure out how to find your true North.

I was talking to my T yesterday and she observed (again) that I am very sensitive. I think that's true. It's not always a good thing. Works well for poetry, but not for the prose of living. Sometimes, which Hol might have felt too, it just hurts too much not to be appreciated or valued, so one has to avoid an ungenerous spirit that's so consumed with itself it can't give you that basic behavior. Listening and respecting.
Maybe one figures out how to gift oneself a generous spirit, listening and unwavering respect.  Maybe that creates enough of everything.

Enjoy your outing, Hops.  Just see what's there: )
Lighter



hugs
Hops

[Hopalong]

Thanks, Lighter.
I don't think I can be completely unreactive around M, unfortunately. I know it's the detached Buddhist highly-evolved ideal, but it's just not me. I am not asking myself any more not to feel hurt when he says something cutting, or silently gasping for air when he can't listen or let me finish a sentence in his franticness. But when it happens, I feel pretty clear that I'll take better care of myself now. Not by never reacting but by noticing if it feels harmful. If it does, I can just go. I'm also not willing to fight him over what is at least part compulsion. If we're lucky, no longer imagining a lifelong relationship might free him to push less, "will" less and be more real. I don't know but I'm not driven to find out. No goals, just getting through it by being myself and speaking what's true for me. Half our trouble was that I submitted to his forcefulness by being gracious and basically, not challenging his constant interruptions or making it clear how damaging it was that he couldn't listen until it was really too late. So that would be me being more real, too, even as "just a friend." Maybe if I'd done more of that earlier, something would've been different, but I'm not sure.

As of now I'm just looking at having Tgiving with him in a gentle fashion. No idea whether any sort of real personal talk will happen, but I doubt it. I'm figuring if I can go light and easy about future contact (including perhaps hanging out in his basement when cleaner comes, which I feel guilty about since if I had other options at this point I'd probably take them), etc. -- then it might be okay.

I don't want to hurt him but that will of his you describe can be overwhelming, so if I get wind of that pressure happening again I'll be out of there. I think it'll be okay.

Thanks for caring, Lighter. You've worked hard to get my nose off the pebbles!

hugs
Hops

PS  I had a friend who was in her third, and first very happy, marriage. One day she told me they'd been driving up an ocean drive feeling very content and she tried to express an awkward confusion she'd been feeling. He (being very tuned in to her) just smiled at her and said, "It doesn't have to be hard." It hit her like a ton of bricks, made her realize she'd come to associate all relationships with deep struggle. And with him, that was just not there. They have a very good life together, sharing interests in art, a gorgeous home, lots of books and entertaining. They had some things to work out, like anyone (she was much more independent and introverted and at first experienced him as clingy (he was one of ten kids so just expected a whole lot more togetherness). But they worked through those things by communicating well and staking out the solitude times she needed and now they seem to be very happy together.

[Hopalong]

It's ironic that I was just telling Tupp how I believe in the strength of choosing to be vulnerable. Because I'll be heading to M's in a few hours. I believe what I said, but also know that the choice should be conscious and not reactive (will be working on that today, Lighter!).

I will try to be present, floating on Tgiving gratitude, but keeping my inner temperature calmer and cooler, if not detached. I wasn't until today, but now I'm really looking forward to seeing him. If our friendship can become stable and healthful for us both, then I'll be glad of it. If it turns out it won't work out, I will be able to let it go. (Just gave him a call and he sounds relaxed, happily cooking. We chatted about how much we each enjoyed The Queen's Gambit on Neflix.)

In other news, my date with the bidnessman went fine yesterday! We spent three hours at a gorgeous winery, bundled up on a huge porch between two propane heaters. It was quite cool but not uncomfortable. He was interesting and good to talk to. Made clear he is wanting to find a real ("romantic") relationship. I'm not sure about the things-in-common department but his intelligence makes him interesting company. He's lean and wiry (a runner and fitness junkie) which I admire but also felt intimidated by (my physical flaws have been bugging me). But here's an example of how I might practice what I preach.

Should we find ourselves enjoying getting closer at some point (possible not expected), I'm going to choose that. Tell this person specifically what I feel vulnerable about, in terms of physical intimacy, and pay attention to how he responds. I'm not sure. He laughs readily, listens well and it was clear he liked me.

Like me, he was married twice (he left the first, the second left him) and had another LTR that amicably cooled off in recent years. His mother in her 90s looks incredible in a pic, which I commented on, and he laughed and said she'd had two facelifts. Whoo. Very different value system. He has a big family, big house (natch) in a smaller city an hour from here. I've been there often enough to know it's a lovely place. He's from there, and as a Jewish boy in a Southern-culture city, he must have found his niche in the business world and seems very loyal to his town and cultural and philanthropic things there. Lots to appreciate.

What I don't know, from first observation, is whether he'd be emotionally accessible. Not a red flag, he seems just to have a naturally restrained personality. I'll learn. I look forward to seeing him again...we'll devise some outdoor visit when I go there in a week or so. I shocked myself by forgetting my restrictions and giving him a hug as we said goodbye (I had my mask on but he didn't, so I kicked myself afterward). But I'll reiterate my commitment to safety before we connect again.

All is well in Hops land; I'm grateful through and through.

hugs
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

Good to hear Hops!

I'll try to hover just behind you, over your left shoulder at Ms... in spirit... and I'll be silent unless you need me. 

[Hopalong]

Outstanding, Amber! Your Amazon supervision and intervention will be VERY welcome!

(I picture you with a heavy cast-iron skillet in one hand and a peacock feather in the other, dispensing whatever's appropriate to either of us moment by moment...)

hugs
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

I am wearing warm, black-tie Jammies..... LOLOL.
And carrying tiny silver bells...

[Hopalong]

Hmmmm. Well, it was nice....sort of. Afterward I felt sad: not "upset" or tearful sad but just kind of "empty" sad. 

We had a tasty meal, and M enjoyed my attention to his cooking. It was delicious. We also had a wonderful wine (he shared a flash-sale wine website that was interesting). There were deer in his yard as I arrived who kind of shambled off at deliberate speed, with no urgency, when I walked fairly close. I always enjoy seeing them although I know they're really overpopulated. Same in my neighborhood.

M seemed okay if more subdued than usual. He enjoyed talking about the usual: food, politics, good TV, a bit about the family. (I changed the subject as he began rhapsodizing over the grandbaby but he didn't notice.) He talked briefly about how he should downsize at some point but would rather just leave it to the kids to deal with it all; I reminded him he can hire organizer people to help but he didn't want to think about it. Said he loves his home and I pointed out he could create a first-floor bedroom suite by adding a bathroom. He agreed. His knee is much better and he doesn't think he'll need surgery.

The only personal thing he mentioned, very briefly, was that he hadn't expected to wind up alone. He dropped that instantly and said no more; I didn't pursue it because he seemed uninterested in further sharing. He was a bit animated about the cooking and food and wine. Pooch enjoyed seeing him.

He didn't ask me any questions about myself. I had a pleasant time but the complete absence of anything personal between us and no expression of affection, delight or interest was what felt sad. I think it's natural. I had ended things and this is what the tail end of a strong attachment and shared dream feels like.

I told him once the housecleaner has been here and I'm ready to have him come indoors again (for bathroom use and also if we fixed any food) I'd like to invite him over to sit around the fire pit. He said he'd like to come. He mentioned shopping and I realized I'd misunderstood -- I thought we were doing the exact same precautions for Covid and actually he's been going to grocery stores (when they first open in the morning, a safer time) all along. I think I'd assumed things because he's not only masked but gloved every time he goes anywhere and washes hands thoroughly when he gets home. He uses a local Covid exposure tracking app that has alerted him just twice, both times at gas stations. But I was startled. Don't feel deceived, just realized I had misunderstood, I guess. He always talked about his grocery deliveries so I hadn't understood he was also shopping in person.

I thanked him for inviting me and told him I was grateful for such a lovely meal, and he deflected my expression and said, "It has nothing to do with you." I laughed but that was...odd. Felt like a true thing, and I think what he meant was, he enjoys cooking and having a dinner companion. Only like, "I need a person to cook for now and then." Kind of impersonal -- the cooking is its own self-contained pleasure for him, and to make something more complicated is enjoyable. But it has nothing to do with me, really; not any more. I think he just didn't want to feel anything particular toward me and he's succeeded in walling off further feelings or compartmentalizing it all. (Why he still wants to see me, then, I don't get. Except that he's isolated and hardly sees anyone except occasionally a colleague.)

Ooof. I'm glad it was a calm and no-tension evening but it was sad. I'm okay. I  hope he is. He emailed it was "great good fun; I enjoyed your company." He always says that. I just didn't feel it and though he seemed okay, he didn't act as though he was particularly having "fun," except when he was interacting with the food.

hugs
Hops

PS - If he had been open to personal sharing, there are things I'd have loved to ask. Such as, When you wrote me "It's not over" - what did you mean? Maybe this evening was exactly all he meant. Eat in proximity; talk about anything other than inner life. I understand there are people who can enjoy that kind of relationship, even for a lifetime. I don't think I can.

[Twoapenny]

Aw, Hopsie.  I understand that sadness.  I think realising there's just nothing there (beyond the odd nice meal and a dog walk from time to time) is hard, particularly as you've had/have love for him and genuine affection and warmth, does just leave a hole where there used to be possibility and hope for a happy ending.  I think a lot of people have a 'that will do' attitude to relationships.  The fear of being alone is a very real and very strong one (as is the desire to have kids earlier in life) and I think many go into relationships that they aren't particularly happy in, because they think it will be less difficult than being alone.  Personally I don't like the idea of going for the least difficult option rather than the best one, you know?

I suspect M, as sweet and lovely as he can be, would be delighted to have you in his life permanently but would expect you to just accept him as he is and not moan about it   I don't mean that in an unkind way; he seems to have many lovely qualities from the things that you've written but I think you want a deeper and more open emotional connection than he is able to give.  I don't think you should settle for less than that, personally.

Maybe now it's reached its natural conclusion?  You can be on good terms, enjoy the odd evening together without an expectation beyond some chat and some nice food?  Businessman you mentioned sounds interesting to get to know.  Is Quirky still providing chat from time to time?  You might meet a footloose and fancy free dog lover when you start your further away than usual walks with Pooch when the cleaning lady starts I think you've done a great job of being true to yourself through all of this and checking in with yourself constantly.  It takes a lot of guts not to crumble and accept less than you really want.  You've been impeccable throughout xx

PS I have found different people have different interpretations of precautions as well.  It's easy to presume we mean the same things when we say the same words!  But people seem to have their own definitions of things and it's not easy to know whether people mean what they say xx

[sKePTiKal]

Well. Sounds like you saw what was there to see Hops. I'll bet that does kinda ring "hollow" a bit. I dunno if there's any more value in picking it apart further. Like driving past a house you used to live in. On the other hand - neither of you suffered life-changing damage or pain... and that's to your credit Hops. You were super-clear about your needs and how they weren't met.

All in all, not a bad first experience in your return to looking for a partner to share this chapter of your life. I think you can just write "the end"... and turn around, put one foot in front of the other... and walk into the future. Try again.