Author Topic: Relationship/s  (Read 155160 times)

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #765 on: April 03, 2021, 12:32:42 PM »
I think you and B did GREAT, Amber. It was gradual, began in friendship, and included all those small moments/info bits that one day added up to a new realization. Nothing whatsoever wrong with your online roots, either.

In my case, my goal is to avoid making any sort of project out of finding someone. Other than a desultory and relaxed approach to the coffee-date kind of intro the site facilitates, I'm not drilling deeper or trying to read more into anything much. I'm pretty good at written red flag detection, so that weeds out a lot of people. And it's fine with me.

I'm almost at a place where "never" might become as good an outcome as "finding him." Almost. Still have The Dream but I've turned the heat down to such a slow simmer that it might just turn out to be a pleasant fantasy that led to a couple new friendships and nothing more. Either way, I want to radically release the outcome, as much as I can. I do know it won't be because I master anything other than myself.

No group chat on that site and I just do not want to bond online before meeting. Full stop. (I do totally Google unashamed for whatever public info might turn up. But that's it.) So those patient enough to accept that quirk and arrange an actual meet, great. Those not that patient aren't for me. And Mr. Rogers is transparent and pretty darn guileless. Reiner makes me laugh and is in love with humanity. I'm liking those depictions of what will help me drop my guard and, if I'm lucky, find somebody to love AND live with. If it doesn't happen, I want to pre-emptively make my peace with that too.

Feel like I'm making big progress, and wanting more to focus on myself than somebody theoretical.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Twoapenny

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #766 on: April 03, 2021, 12:36:40 PM »
"wanting more to focus on myself than somebody theoretical"


Hopsie, I think that's the bit, in a nutshell.  Exactly that. xx

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #767 on: April 03, 2021, 02:17:27 PM »
Thanks, (((((Tupp))))).

I actually learned a lot from the struggles and disillusionments with M. He's still human as am I, and so far, I'm okay with just-friends.

Now, I'm looking for new just-friends. No pre-written agenda. No room for it.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Twoapenny

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #768 on: April 04, 2021, 05:01:52 AM »
I think the learning's always good, Hopsie, it's just difficult when the lessons are so painful.  And yes, we're all human, with our hang ups and habits and not so good bits alongside the bits that make us lovely :)  Just not always easy to find someone that matches and I think it is natural to guard your heart more closely when you've been hurt in the past, and that tends to make us a bit more cautious (which I think sometimes is a good thing; it does mean your spidey senses prick up at small things and I think it's good that we take notice of those.  And I should say that when I say 'your' I don't mean you specifically, just anyone who's already had to nurse a broken heart :) ).  I am looking forward to hearing more about new just friends when they come along :) xx

sKePTiKal

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #769 on: April 04, 2021, 10:45:18 AM »
Focusing on one's self - and making necessary updates in one's perspective, maybe habits, and general well-being is my new advice to anyone between relationships for whatever reason.

It's the best investment of time & energy anyone can make, IMO. I'm still practicing that, even with the promise from B that the time till arrival & staying is getting very short. Keeping myself grounded in what works for me makes it easier, I think, to make the transition in a clear & honest way.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #770 on: May 23, 2021, 04:22:19 PM »
Ola,
I'm realizing that about 8 months after dropping the hammer on M (no more lifetime dream, but friendship) I'm STILL processing what I let go of. The Dream.

I'm okay, first off. But it's a bunch of layers of stuff/crap. One is, he spent a week in CA with his wonderful, welcoming, adorable, lovely and loving family including grandbabies who had treated me like the Visiting Angel. I lost them (that part of The Dream) when I said No More to him. I accept that. Price of admission.

I still know I did the right thing. Biiiig difference between the fairytale sold to the family (and to me) versus the reality of being unheard and disregarded in the various ways he'd do that, with which I could not/would not cope long term. Okay. No demonizing. But a deeeeeep disappointment. Even though I was the one to (I believe) wake up and realize he wouldn't/couldn't ACTUALLY build a shared life with me (or perhaps any non-subservient woman), versus his wooing hyperbole about it/me....it's still a loss.

Other is, he's had a cardiac thing surface and has to have a procedure for it which will work, but brings all of it into fuller awareness all of a sudden. Virtually all our conversations are about Him, and how He is doing, and what He is concerned about, and keeping Him company when he wants diversion, and being available to Him when he wants to process it aloud.

Wow. That's pretty frontal.

Anyway, my current M-goal is to TRYYYYY (and what's embarrassing is how hard it is) to think about him less.

It's ridiculously difficult. My co-D programming was so deep, more than I knew. So that's a thing I'm working on at the moment. Fortunately my sweet T is really good at cheering on my moments of clarity and standing-on-own-emotional-feet. I just wish they were more frequent.

Thassall I can articulate just now.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

sKePTiKal

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #771 on: May 24, 2021, 09:41:57 AM »
I fail to see why you have give up the dream and pursuing it with someone else. It's YOUR DREAM and not dependent on M; who is obsessed with HIS DREAM - which isn't compatible with yours and y'all didn't get to the point of OUR DREAM.

Forgive me for being blunt. There are several things I'm being completely ruthless with myself about right now. Having a long quiet check-in on some things with me. (Not that's it's peaceful.)
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #772 on: May 24, 2021, 03:28:00 PM »
Nothing to forgive, Amber!

I haven't given up on my dream, am just discouraged (not tragically but truthfully) at the present moment. It may be a post-quarantine phenom, but I'm getting nearly zero messages on the same site I met M on. Yet, I'm not going to spend hours and hours looking online, either.

I've decided for now I'm going to relax, wait until some medical stuff (appts) is all behind me, and then maybe take up the crusade again in late summer or fall. Right now I don't have the energy or focus for it.

And you were exactly right. We never got to OUR dream. My fatal error (which I've done before) was believing that because somebody says something (or a lot of things) they actually mean it and will follow through ... AND ... believing that just because I can imagine it, that means it's doable.

Not everything is. And that's not all M's fault. I got very invested and was willing to even give up my beloved house since he didn't want to, but his attitude toward finding a new home for us both OR making real space in his for me...showed me it's not doable with him, really. I just wish it hadn't taken nearly 2 years to sink into my thick skull.

I have plenty that's positive to focus on right now. Just want to think about him less. Writing so often about M here probably makes it look as though I've made no progress at all in processing/releasing the whole thing, but I have.

Thanks for all the patient listening. (My garden helper was trying to explain something to me and I made her repeat it three times...) it might just be how I think. Aloud, repetitively and for an inordinate amount of time.

But I'm still trainable!

I'm sorry to hear you're under the (your own) microscope for something hard right now. Hope it's not bad news or a hard wakeup.

Hugs
Hops
« Last Edit: May 24, 2021, 03:31:38 PM by Hopalong »
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

sKePTiKal

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #773 on: May 24, 2021, 06:53:13 PM »
For whatever reason, I think I just woke up this morning - very GRUMPY.

LOLOL. I'm better now.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

lighter

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #774 on: May 24, 2021, 10:32:44 PM »
Hops:

You  aren't jus trainable. 

You know more about yourself, what you want and what you don't want.

I'm sorry M wasn't what you needed him to be.  You'll see the red flags earlier next time.  You'll know them when you see them.

Lighter

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #775 on: May 25, 2021, 12:33:42 PM »
Thanks, ((((Lighter)))). I think you're right.

I don't remember if I told y'all this on another thread, but I felt good about a decision I made recently to not have a second date with a smart, rich, accomplished, powerful man I had an enjoyable first date with about a month ago.

Pink flags were him saying "I hate that woman" about his first wife (mother of his children, I gathered theirs was a toxic, money-slaughter divorce) and also his telling me, "I WILL teach you to dance!" after explaining how much he enjoyed it. I thought it over and cancelled our next meet (dinner downtown). I didn't dislike or recoil from him, but figured not asking me whether I'd like to learn the dancing, plus saying that about his first wife to a woman he didn't know...were clear enough.

Not about judging him for either...just about not wanting to take on another powerful, entitled man who isn't tuned into the subtler stuff that spells respect, imo.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Twoapenny

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #776 on: May 25, 2021, 05:07:11 PM »
Aw, Hopsie.  This bit really stuck out for me:

My fatal error (which I've done before) was believing that because somebody says something (or a lot of things) they actually mean it and will follow through ... AND ... believing that just because I can imagine it, that means it's doable.

I think we should all be able to believe that people say what they mean and will do what they say!  And I think it's so sad that so many people don't.  I think some people mean it when they say it - but not to the extent that they will actually do it.  And some will say it because they think it will get you doing what they want you to do, which I think is really sad.  I don't want to be someone who is always suspicious but equally it's hard to guard your heart if you take everything at face value.  I think it's sad.

And I think believing that things are doable is so natural when you're a fixer/carer/giver etc.  Effort = anything is possible.  It's hard to go against that, especially when you can see how good something can be, if only doofus could stop talking for five minutes every now and again.

I also think that the prospect of family - all those lovely relatives and grandbabies - who wouldn't want that? - is so appealing, and it's hard to let go of that part of it as well.  You're doing well.  You'll get there - I think a time will come when M becomes 'm' - you know?

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #777 on: May 26, 2021, 05:39:02 PM »
Quote
believing that things are doable is so natural when you're a fixer/carer/giver etc.  Effort = anything is possible.

This was very helpful, Tupp -- thanks mucho. It is a great synopsis of delusion and for that matter, a lot of other stuff that drains energy from personal goals and the ability to be in the present and be content.

Just had a visit from M that was fun and interesting but one-way, as ever. And I was okay with it. He ("m") was just being himself and the diversion of his narrative (about himself) was nice and also not significant. If he can welcome me as a diversion/distraction now and then, I can view him the same way. Nothing more. Surprised that particular framing never occurred to me before.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #778 on: July 18, 2021, 09:38:00 AM »
Interesting that I believed this in May:
Quote
If he can welcome me as a diversion/distraction now and then, I can view him the same way.


It's been about a year since I "broke up" with M, and gradually, partly due to being pandemic pod buddies (which really was a sanity-saver at the time), the pattern has gradually inched back into what it was when we were committed romantic partners during a busy (for him) period: dinner once or twice a week, very superficial emails and, when we do see each other...M's compulsive nonstop, silences-are-forbidden, talking. (Amped up lately since he senses me pulling back.)

He's being doing great, professionally. He has thrived on the solitude and been incredibly productive. He has professional trips coming up and many others. He had and weathered a significant health crisis, has lost 50 pounds, looks great and is feeling better. And he appears completely content with the new "friendship" we've been doing.

But I've gradually built up to a reckoning with myself about it. I'm not content. Recently my grief-processing came up to the surface when his two sons each visited for a week. M. immediately planned dinners to include me and I loved seeing them. I had instantly loved them when I met them because: 1) they're terrific young men with lovely families and 2) knowing them and how much they liked me back, ignited my yearning to be part of a family. They were ready. I was ready. M is not.

M is ready to have me be his long-running, ongoing best friend and first companion. His helper and supporter and listener. But nothing's changed from when it hit the fan for me: He doesn't want to make any changes, make a home together, or commit to anything that would require him to downsize, move, make real space for me in his house, etc. He painted two spare bedrooms and when asked about the main living space (Q: How would you make room for me to have some favorite pieces in the main areas? A: "I don't want to change anything." He means it.)

Yet the COMFORT of staying so connected to him has been real and I settled into it.
Lately, I'm a lot less settled. I notice his patterns of conversation:
1) If I'm feeling down or withdrawn he ups the ante with ever-more-frantic talk. The moment he sees me it starts pouring out, and it's always always always the same:
--food
--his work (little history lessons)
--politics
--Covid

That's it. We never, ever, ever talk about anything personal or that I find personally meaningful or intimate. It's not a surprise -- his defenses against vulnerability are enormous and were part of the reason our relationship failed. His compulsions, too. Our future (or a genuinely shared, with some depth future) was blocked, imo.

The other reason I'm reconsidering now is that his sons reminded me of the grief. I've been sad ever since they left. M also acted so strange at those fancy dinners out -- praising me gushingly in front of his sons, beaming at me, and behaving as though I were still his full life partner or fiance. It was awkward, because that's not just "friendship." I found myself just thinking, why am I going along with a charade of real commitment and intimacy, when it's not what we are?

The answer was a mix of loneliness, pandemic podding, and hoping that I could enjoy that connection long-term (I'd adjusted, I thought) without harm to myself.

Now, I'm not so sure. I've been irritable with him lately, everything he goes on about bores me, his narcissism shows up in small and large ways all the time, etc.

He just told me that his sister is coming from Costa Rica and of course he wants me to join them for Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving! I felt sort of locked-down in "devoted companion to trot out for family" mode and last night, wrote him that actually, being around his family is quite painful for me, as it reminds me of my loss of the big dream and future hopes. And that though I still care for him, we're not what we were, and I can't pretend it any longer. His "place in my heart" will endure, but I'm working at facing my future as it most likely will be.

I've been back on the dating site and though action there is very slow, I'll stick with it. I have no sense that I will definitely find what I've yearned for and so at the same time that I remain open, I don't "expect" a certain outcome. In the meantime, it's better for me than sustaining my relationship needs on superficial talk, eating together occasionally, and that's it. It's just not enough, and it's almost like being handed half a glass of water when you have strong thirst. This glass isn't half-full for me, alas.

I've gotta fill up my own glass, one way or another. I dread the prospect of another Covid winter without relying on M, but I think it may be necessary to toughen me up and help me focus harder on my own life, world, friendships, and writing.

In my email to him I said, "Wish we could talk about deeper things sometime" but also that "It's okay." It is okay, in that I'm no longer imagining it would be any different with him. And given that I can't help being who I am any more than he can help being who he is (commanding, self-absorbed, money obsessed), that's the right -- or the real -- place I should be.

Working on it. Life brings challenge and change. I'm committed to my own mental and emotional health and returning to familiar steps. Therapy is good, church is there and I should re-engage, and writing calls.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #779 on: July 18, 2021, 11:00:20 AM »
((((Hops))) acceptance is our friend.  What amazing work you're doing.

We're your pod too!

Lighter