Author Topic: Relationship/s  (Read 154712 times)

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #960 on: December 14, 2021, 11:52:58 AM »
I'm still in love...with both of them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVz-ZDiAgTs
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Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #961 on: December 26, 2021, 06:12:28 PM »
I think something good (and bad) happened, but for me personally, balance: good.

Met an attractive, kind man (online) in a church discussion group. Remember feeling a bit curious as to why he's in THIS discussion group when he lives in another town (and is also a member at another church in an in-between town). Hmmm. But anyway, we've had a little friendly correspondence (the group asked to read some of my stuff, poems and a lay "sermon") and he's been interested. And frankly, I was getting quite interested in him. Loooooonely me. We'd agreed we'd meet next month for lunch when he comes over for a V.A. appt.

Long story short, I Googled and was shocked to find him on the sex offender registry (a child porn conviction 15 years ago). Yet he's still a human being, he's part of an intimate group of older folks and clearly it's important to him, and we are fellow members of the same denomination, if not church (thank heaven). I froze and then wrote him directly: I google everyone I find interesting and ran into your old conviction. I'm sorry. It doesn't make me judge or hate you but does mean I won't be able to meet you outside meetings or keep up a private correspondence. I wish you peace in the New Year and be kind to yourself. I did mean that; don't believe in eternal punishment and do believe he is kind. Just fucked up, evidently. This culture (and maybe his background) warp some people.

It was difficult but the right thing to do to protect my inner peace. So that's the part that is good. The not-as-good is that I felt so sorry for him that I nearly didn't.

I'm just grateful that that type of history, no matter how far back, is a bright line I will not ask myself to form a relationship across. I am grateful I didn't meet him in person or put myself in a position of vulnerability. Not physical, I don't have any reasonable fear of that, but psychological. I was already beginning to fantasize.
Y'all know how much difficulty I can have putting THAT horse back in the barn.

But I stopped cold. Too much darkness in my family past around sexual abuse of my aunt (and perhaps mother) by grandfather. I just will not court that kind of pondering, which would be unavoidable for me if I got closer to this person.

Holy smokes, y'all. When does it get easy? But I did good, right?

I need to be much much slower to emotionally connect before I know a person is safe for me. Project 2022.

hugs
Hops
« Last Edit: December 26, 2021, 06:14:03 PM by Hopalong »
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sKePTiKal

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #962 on: December 27, 2021, 11:04:34 AM »
I'm sorry you're experiencing loneliness Hops. It's not something I have a lot of "catalog" of experiencing, except for somewhere between Mike & B, when Hol was on her campaign to get me to be something else, to meet her standard of approval. She's over that now; but is still free with her observations. We're still cooperating on working on HER issues a bit more now.  ;)  As she has some insight or other.

I can see where maybe - possibly; only you can say - the loneliness might be connected to how quickly you emotionally connect and start fantasizing the most ideally romantic relationship even when you're involved with guys - that you've only known a very short time. Been pondering and just looking at what you've written for awhile. One thing I've noticed about myself - the few times I've really jumped off that cliff - is that I wrote my own description of my guy in my head, without basing it on actual facts or observations or his interactions with other people. Most of the time, I have already collected that research on the person - either through knowing them, working with them or some other non-romantic experience first. But one thing I learned to do (painfully), was to not have any expectations of a "happily ever after" every single time I made those connections.

So, that's the "catching feelings" stage. It happens when/where ever it wants to, IMO. But that's still not a relationship. It can happen to one person at a time - at different times. In different ways. And sometimes, rarely, it happens together. Sometimes, we can even fool ourselves about those feelings. Especially if we have an old emotional wound or immediate concrete world need that we can't fill by ourselves. This could link back up with the "lonely", but that's for you to explore/decide.

(Sounds like non-sequitor, but isn't:) So, you know I've been watching tarot readings for awhile now. Seems they're all talking about love relationships for people 30-40 years younger than us. I've got the readers sorted for myself and really only watch a couple these days with any attention. They both have a background in psychology and therapy. But ya know, there's a whole lot of things that we didn't learn about relationships and life because of the dysfunction in our FOOs. So almost without exception these readers are very supportive of people meeting their own emotional needs and not expecting those needs to be fulfilled in any relationship. The exchange of meeting needs is the "golden rule" in relationship these days and that translates a lot better for people in later stages of life. It needs to be based on each individual being able to take care of themselves this way first - and I think that's a healthier idea than just seeking the person who APPEARS to be able to fill that hole in our hearts. It involves all kinds of other relationships with other people too. We're going to want to maintain those relationships even if we DO meet Prince Charming right?

And from that solid self-sufficient base, then the fairy-godmother universe supposedly puts Prince Charming directly in your path. That is also the "formula" in a lot of romance novels too. With all the variations thereof. You can probably already detect my skepticism of this idea...   :rolleyes:  The functional, useful part of that formula, IMO, is when a person is whole and has filled most of those subconscious "needs" themselves (and there ain't any right way to do that that I know of) one's life changes. In subtle, sometimes "magical", ways. I don't know why; but it FEELS to me like one walks lighter on the earth to a tune most people can't hear. (That's my imagination working overtime, about something I don't think I can describe.) But MAYBE it would help with the loneliness and anxiety, too.

Me, I'm needing intellectual stimulation. Thinking about maybe getting certified as an herbalist, even though I think I want to focus on the growing side of things. I also have to study some electrical physics to tune my HAM antenna (next step in getting shack on the air). It's gonna be a long winter, methinks. But as warm as it is (no hard freeze yet) I'm going to start planning the spring planting marathon and then the Hut and I can fight over the heavy equipment scheduling. LOLOLOL. Maybe I'll start a thread with seed/plant company website links -- the pictures are always so helpful this time of year.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #963 on: December 27, 2021, 12:42:06 PM »
ABSOLUTELY right, Amber:
the loneliness might be connected to how quickly you emotionally connect and start fantasizing the most ideally romantic relationship even when you're involved with guys - that you've only known a very short time. Speedy fantasy/bonding isn't romantic, it's dysfunctional. (M taught me a lot, inadvertently.)

Part of it's loneliness (since childhood when it was deepest) and part romantic brainwashing from culture that I absorbed way too deeply. Novels were my whole life for many years as "real life" was too painful. My brain works better now and I am finally able to over-ride my own trance states (such as imagining a future with M, "seeing" kindness when it really wasn't there). It is effortful and significant when I do wake up, even better when I shake myself out of a waking dream in the first place. I think that's why I was "celebrating" having felt faint doubts and following them to a sad revelation about new Mr. Kindness. I saw I'd already begun fantasizing as a loud warning about where the gaps in my heart-coverage sag open if I'm not more mindful. This time, I think I was more mindful, and have saved myself future pain.

I couldn't agree more that it's important to meet one's own emotional needs as much as possible. I'm someone, however, who does NEED intimacy. But I find bits of it here and there in good friendships, in community, in volunteering, and in therapy. It's a patchwork of connection and may be all it ever is. I don't think I'll ever be alone on an Arctic voyage. It's my nature to suffer in too much isolation, and my vulnerability, and this year has been that for me. For a lot of folks, really.

Poet and I just swapped stories, and she'd once met (and dated) a similar man in the church community. Very kind, funny, etc. Once jailed for seducing his music student who was 14. She realized he wasn't for her, but later than I happened to this time. Oddly, maybe it's a poet problem. We're attracted to the unreality of romance and its myths because we are attracted to intensity on every level of life. Otherwise, I'd not have much of substance to write about. To write poetry, I drill as deep as I can, mining emotion and life for the subtlest surprises, which to me are as valuable as gold. Imagination is everything. But a poet can imagine too much in real life, where one needs insight to balance imagination. That radar that helps me see unexpected connections, even powerful ones, between ideas and sounds and images in the world that I can transform into poetry...can bleed over into imagining people-connections where they'd be unreal in daylight. Unreal or even destructive.

Poet friend's work is a lot more ethereal, abstract and delicate than mine. Mine is driving, punchy, and emotionally potent. There's a big thing for me in rhythm and sound, over idea. Mine kind of mounts to a climactic metaphor or revelation; hers floats and twirls in soft air currents and is highly spiritual. Each style suits who we each are, and it's fascinating to be supporting each other's art and life-learning.

She shared this morning that she's still haunted by her childhood abuse in Africa, and said her memories are full of gaps before age 18. She just knows she was terrified, and another memory had surfaced of being chased. I think the whole pack of village children would chase her. Her parents were so involved in their field work that they just abandoned her to the company of all the village children. She was very young and not ready for it and it all went worse wrong when an adult abused her in a latrine or outhouse. That horrible thing at age 4 has hung over her whole life. No wonder she spend several years with a husband who beat her.

Even at this later age, it's a joy to be healing alongside a friend who's also diving so deep. Like most on this board are. I'm really grateful for these friendships. SO grateful.

Thanks for your thinking, Amber. I value it so much because your self-sufficiency, though out of my reach to that degree, inspires me nonetheless. I'm learning not to shame myself for the baby steps, which in comparison look like crawling while you're on a tractor reshaping a mountain. Well, that's pretty accurate. But I'm infusing some of my little steps with more mountain spirit because of you.

hugs
Hops
« Last Edit: December 27, 2021, 12:50:58 PM by Hopalong »
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #964 on: December 27, 2021, 04:44:57 PM »
Well, I can see why the guy was posting outside his neighborhood, where he's not  required to register.  He wants to shake it off and who knows what for?  Best to SOOOPH.... stay out of other people's heads.  If he's the kindest, most changed human being with a renewed connection to God, you cannot know.

I think the message you sent was fine.  He might be terrified you'll out him to the rest of the group.  I too have that pity button, but will always override it with care for children and grandchildren of folks less diligent than yourself.

Again, can't know what his motives are, but as my sister used to say.....

"What gets you off, gets you off.... Yogi must eat."

He's broken and won't ever be OK.  You're right to protect yourself. 

Sorry that happened to you, but am glad you have the group.

Lighter

sKePTiKal

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #965 on: December 27, 2021, 05:15:06 PM »
I guess you and I live in the opposite sides of that spectrum Hops.  I'm still doing a lot of work on realizing my emotions - the simple joyful ones especially - and I have a suspicion that I was pushed/trained to being so Spock-like and pragmatic as an antidote to my own fanciful imagination. But intensity exists all across that spectrum - I've felt it.

For me, "balance" is not letting either extreme hog the spotlight. Coz I'm a total basket case if I get intensely emotional or some kind of logical "monster" if I cease feeling and therefore revisit a thousand intense places I'd much rather disappear in the black hole of an aging brain's memory lapses.

I can keep the lessons of those experiences; I can name them and catalog them. I don't need to keep the visceral stuff anymore - not even for creativity.
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Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #966 on: December 27, 2021, 05:56:21 PM »
Thanks, both of you, for your as-ever penetrating insights.

Lighter, you're right, except that he's on the state registry (though he may also be visible on the usual neighborhood ones). I'm not worried and for once feel no ambivalence about having set a clear boundary. I don't feel upset about it in fact (except for what he participated in, which is unspeakable). Otherwise, only on my own behalf, I feel glad, because my reaction was preemptive enough and swift enough that I can truthfully say that I smelled the coffee before it cooled.

Even Hops can make progress! (I do imagine he fears being "outed" but I don't feel any urge to do that. In a group of smart older people, he can decide what he will do.)

Amber, you understand yourself so remarkably well. I almost envy your ability to leave visceral stuff behind. I couldn't be my particular kind of writer if I did, but I CAN continue to work at not letting that pipeline-to-the-heart waylay me in my non-writing or relationship life. I'm proud of this latest step; it tells me I have learned a lot in recent years and I'm beginning to apply it with less hesitation. As with the Scot, though that was jerkier.

Boundaries. Self care. Awareness. Such basic stuff but so good to discover.

Whew, and whew. A complicated story of progress, but I think that's what it is. Two steps forward + one step back and I'm finally doing the math.

hugs,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #967 on: December 27, 2021, 10:40:29 PM »
Boundaries will keep us safe, Hops.

You're surfing real good, IMO. 

Lighter

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #968 on: December 28, 2021, 09:18:44 AM »
Yup. Got a reply, which was interesting [analyses in brackets]. BTW, there is not and never will be future correspondence. I just like analysing the communication.

I understand.
At least you were interested in me enough to look me up online. [Me me me. Hmm, why would a woman feel she NEEDS to look up a man online?]
I have long dealt with my shame. [Errrr, bravo?]
People who know me and my offense know I am a good person
who made a terrrible error in judgement and is paying a huge price. [Mebbe so. You are now kind and doing good deeds. Pay on, it wasn't "huge" at all, imo.]

What was missing? ANY mention of the unspeakable price paid by child victims of the activity he engaged in. None. The children must've been incidental. If they're alive, not crazy, not addicts, not on the streets or in jail because of the damage.

Anyway, he's still "good." To me, he sounds unattuned to moral nuance and he led with self-pity. Total, complete and final turnoff.

Valuable learning experience for me. In that situation, I felt proud of myself. I did hold back. I stopped fantasizing EARLY. I checked out reality. I acted on it immediately.

I love clarity. I know that analysing language for everything I can squeeze out of it is a survival skill for me. If I am alert and well-boundaried, I'm going to hear what's real. And now I know I can react. I HAVE learned.

This is different.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #969 on: December 28, 2021, 04:10:51 PM »
This is different, Hops and you're growing through the lessons.

It's a good thing.

Lighter

Phyll

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #970 on: December 30, 2021, 01:30:19 AM »
Well done Hops.  I can very much relate to the early tendency to romanticize and daydream.  It reminds me of what a friend of mine once said which really stuck with me:  A co-dependent packs her bags on the first date. Nothing wrong with checking public records on a complete stranger you find yourself interested in before moving forward.  Great job in being direct with him and setting the boundary.  I am so impressed with how you honestly and fearlessly examine (and articulate) your own thoughts, motives, desires and feelings.  I agree - his response is a real turnoff - yes - leading with self-pity and no remorse or thought about the victim(s)...

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #971 on: March 27, 2022, 10:57:30 PM »
Well whaddayouknow.

I just had a second date with a sweet man. S.

It was a nice experience.
He's divorced, my age, my economic peer, has a young child (11) because he married someone 20 years younger. Lives so close to the ex his D can walk over. Pooch liked him.

I see differences, loads. But he's a good person: kind reflexes, listens. Attractive and crazy into fitness, so that's a challenge for my insecurities. We had a nice relaxed time. Dinner at his place. I since we first met (two-hour lunch) have said EXACTLY what I'm thinking as I feel like it. He likes me. I like him too. We're very different. But there are qualities there I like: solid kind of country childhood. Adored his mother (good sign!). Maybe some neediness on his part that surprisingly might be a match for my own.

Who knows. Doesn't matter. Not fantasizing too much yet. (Yay, me.) I'm pleased I forced myself out the door to give it a try. Got lost and was a half-hour late. He said "I fall in love fast" and I made clear that my foot is on the brake, hard. We're going to see if we'd like to be friends (first if not forever) and have a plan to go to a favorite overlook soon.

hugs
Hops
« Last Edit: March 28, 2022, 03:23:52 AM by Hopalong »
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #972 on: March 28, 2022, 03:56:15 PM »
I forgot the part that's the most fun to tell:

1) Given the ADD, I have a terrible time getting out the door in time. Transitions fry the brain and my time management sucks. I know this, but it is like hand-digging a building foundation to change it. Fortunately, it sometimes gives good stories.

2) Called him re. running late; he's totally sweet and forgiving about it. Meanwhile, he's also invited Pooch so I let her pee and rush her into the car and hop on the interstate. She hates interstates so often trembles and complains at high speeds. I get absorbed in NPR. Halfway there, I realize she's just taken a dump on the passenger seat, so the car fills with poo aroma! (Me too, presumably). I had a little quilt on the seat to diminish dog hair for human passengers and while reassuring her (not her fault, I neglected to walk her long enough since I was late) that she's a GOOD GIRL. I swipe the quilt and some of the turds onto the floor at 65 mph. Not all make it. She next leaps into my lap and so leaves schmears on the center console and my pants. First impressions, right?

3) My cell phone is dead because of a SIM card problem I didn't attend to as I vaguely ADD-thought I would during the day. So I can't GPS. He lives in a dense development near the mountains that's 10x more massive than I realized and lacking in street signs (from Google maps, I'd figured oh that's easy, go around the roundabout and take a turn or two and I'll run into it). So I'm late and then get ridiculously lost.

4) I find the only center-square restaurant open on Sundays and 4 strangers get on their cell phones to help me find where it is, but I've been one syllable off on the street name. I tell them his name and a nice couple (with two cute kids) get on it. Later while I'm wandering through a parking lot in the wrong direction they pull up and go Nooo, follow us, you're nearly RIGHT THERE! Sure enough, they found it. Is that lovely kindness or what????

5) When I get out of the car the wine I brought him slips out of the bag and I scramble to find it while yakking a mile a minute to divert him from the poo-cloud.

After all that, we had a really nice evening. Now it's time to go out and Face the Pooch Poo. Couldn't bear doing it in the dark last night so left it to ripen.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Phyll

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #973 on: March 29, 2022, 12:20:15 AM »
That is a great story Hops!  One I certainly can relate to with my ADD!  Those people helping you, that is wonderful. He sounds like a nice man. Have fun and enjoy!

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #974 on: March 29, 2022, 04:22:31 PM »
Thanks, (((Phyll))).

I hope to just have fun too.
But he's got to slow it down or I'll exit.

Whew. He's still nice but I doubt we'll
become more than friends. Meanwhile,
nice to have a new one.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."