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Twoapenny:
What is the Frenchman doing, Lighter, is he cracking on to you and not taking your no for an answer?  Do I need to come over there and kick his arse?!  You should not, in my opinion, have to lie about dating someone in order to put someone else off.  You've told him no and that's as much as he needs.  Anything wrong with that is his problem, not yours, and you shouldn't have to lie because he's conceited and arrogant enough to think the fact that your female is enough for you to be interested in him.  When you said you didn't speak up to Frenchman my mind pinged back to that dodgy contractor you had to get a restraining order against?  That was a horrible experience and I wouldn't be surprised if you saying 'no' to someone triggers that at the back of your mind somewhere.  It is very scary when you are with or around men that don't take 'no' easily so if there is something popping up there it would be very understandable, in my opinion.

Mmm, brother wanting you to 'let men be men'?  Someone else suggesting you be a home maker?  Am I wrong in thinking that you've rebuilt this blooming beach house on your own?  Ferried back and forth for many months, ordering and arranging supplies, contractors, new contractors when the previous ones don't turn up, undertaken goodness only knows how many aspects of the building projects yourself, flew home through a hurricane at one point, if I remember rightly?  All while looking after Ds, doing your own therapy/body work/day to day stuff, and the small matter of the deranged relatives getting in touch again not too long ago?  Well my blood is boiling on your behalf, Lighter, I would politely suggest that you do what you can to get rid of these men who can only be men if the women bake cakes and paint their toenails.  WTF?  Forgive me if I've misread the situation but as I'm reading it I'd like to come over there and deliver multiple arse kickings, cook my friend Lighter a nice meal and then go dancing on the beach!  I'm glad you got the painting finished, though, and the shed door sounds great.  I hope all these people wind their necks in a bit tomorrow so that you can get on with what you need to do without dealing with all this childish crap.  You are absolutely right not to lie, not to have to keep explaining yourself and to work alongside people to learn from them.  I've been doing it for years and can cope with all sorts of DIY jobs now that many people have to pay someone else to do.

Enjoy the stars.  Maybe visualise building a big catapult on the beach, loading it up with annoying men and then catapulting them into space :)  Lol xx

lighter:

--- Quote from: Twoapenny on February 20, 2020, 01:36:20 PM ---What is the Frenchman doing, Lighter, is he cracking on to you and not taking your no for an answer?  Frenchman asked if I thought we would date.  Like that.
I'd been doing my own thing more.....listening to him less in other words, so maybe....he.....was.....cracking on me in a small space while we were trying to focus on dinner prep.  I had no where to go after answering him.  He was in my house....I wasn't going to leave, but the incident meant he did dishes by himself.   Do I need to come over there and kick his arse?! LOL....you prolly could.
He showed up this morning....he was supposed to come if I texted him.  I had David working and was super focused on project with brother.  Frenchman a verbal processor.....talks so much.  Brother could see my eyes glazing over so stepped in to direct F.  The man requires constant direction or.....not sure.  He'll be back at 10am.  I need to figure out how to be proactive there. You should not, in my opinion, have to lie about dating someone in order to put someone else off.  So agree!You've told him no and that's as much as he needs.  Anything wrong with that is his problem, not yours, and you shouldn't have to lie because he's conceited and arrogant enough to think the fact that your female is enough for you to be interested in him.  My mother used to say I wasn't an apple men could pick off a tree.  Anyhow, I'm more annoyed by his chattering than the other night in the kitchen.  Brother says he has skills....impressed he sanded the wood used to secure the magnetic bug screen more securely.  He's certainly an earnest worker.When you said you didn't speak up to Frenchman my mind pinged back to that dodgy contractor you had to get a restraining order against?  That was a horrible experience and I wouldn't be surprised if you saying 'no' to someone triggers that at the back of your mind somewhere.  It is very scary when you are with or around men that don't take 'no' easily so if there is something popping up there it would be very understandable, in my opinion.  I suspect there's a part of me expecting another shoe to fall.
I'm trying to breath myself over any real or imagined rabbit holes.  No time or space in my life for them.  Brother thinks Frenchman might be good caretaker at some point.  Very keen on the idea.

Mmm, brother wanting you to 'let men be men'?  Someone else suggesting you be a home maker?  Am I wrong in thinking that you've rebuilt this blooming beach house on your own?  Ferried back and forth for many months, ordering and arranging supplies, contractors, new contractors when the previous ones don't turn up, undertaken goodness only knows how many aspects of the building projects yourself, flew home through a hurricane at one point, if I remember rightly?  I don't think brother understands what this renovation/ retrofit entailed.  He sees dollars spent, not what had to happen, get measured, ordered, arranged, shipped, received, palletized, shipped, received, carted to property, unpacked, sorted, found, applied to projects and stored.  We didnt build new, which is much cheaper.  We tore out, closed off, replaced and protected.
He just now understands we closed off 7 windows and 1 exterior door so I didn't have to buy those windows and corresponding hurricane shutters....so I could butt in up and cool two buildings more efficiently.
He wasn't here.  He doesn't know. All while looking after Ds, doing your own therapy/body work/day to day stuff, and the small matter of the deranged relatives getting in touch again not too long ago?  Well my blood is boiling on your behalf, Lighter, I would politely suggest that you do what you can to get rid of these men who can only be men if the women bake cakes and paint their toenails.  WTF?  I think brother's fear is speaking.
He wants me to have a competent man in my life, taking care of me.  At the same time we were all outside working today and brother saw the value in my being there too.   I'm gently letting him get on with sharing his opinions....even if he's not sure who I am, really.  We're getting closer through this island trial by fire.  Being a people pleaser.....I notice people tend to plow on even after I speak up now.  Will take time to really connect.  Will take speaking a little louder....reminding....compassionately explaining. Forgive me if I've misread the situation but as I'm reading it I'd like to come over there and deliver multiple arse kickings, cook my friend Lighter a nice meal and then go dancing on the beach!  That put a smile on my face.
I think dancing on the beach is a moral imperative at this point.  I want to play, but on my terms.  Dancing with the Amazon's, by bonfire light, would be true joy.   I'm glad you got the painting finished, though, and the shed door sounds great.  I hope all these people wind their necks in a bit tomorrow so that you can get on with what you need to do without dealing with all this childish crap. Sometimes it feels like brother says to me what he'd like to say to someone else in his life, IMO.
  You are absolutely right not to lie, not to have to keep explaining yourself and to work alongside people to learn from them.  I've been doing it for years and can cope with all sorts of DIY jobs now that many people have to pay someone else to do. I know, right.

Enjoy the stars.  It stormed today and this evening.  I opened the windows and let cool wind blow through the cottage.  I really love that.  Thanks for the support, Tupp.

--- End quote ---

Hopalong:
Lighter, I don't like this scene.

You're sounding like a deer in the headlights, frozen, hoping that your brother will read your scared glances and protect you from a boundary-bashing Frenchman. You have talked about other men bashing boundaries...the old contractor, other workers, a man in your hometown friend group. Even your brother, nonstop pushing his advice...same pattern.

Can you work on practicing verbal assertiveness with the T? Take an assertiveness workshop? Self-defense isn't only physical. It's verbal.

Not positive I'm onto anything, but just suddenly thought this. I understand you've done a lot to become physically empowered. But I'm thinking when you talk about your verbal communication, you talk about indirect, gentle, compassionate, hopeful attempts to steer or influence people. Very indirect and optimistically strategic, but not clear. Not helping you to maintain healthy boundaries.

It's not direct. It's not clear.

These guys need to back off.

You need to learn how to stop emitting "trespass here, it's part of who I am" vibes.

This is bluntly put but I think I might have had an intuition. I was suddenly concerned that something could go wrong for you if the vibes toward men continue to be murky and unclear. Hope it helps, and please ignore if it doesn't.

hugs
Hops

sKePTiKal:
LOL... it seems to me we all have our own ways of interacting with men. Some of it's subconcious, some it is personality, some of it learned or intentional. Any or all of those have their usefulness, given a specific situation.

But what's bugging me is how (with the exception of Tupp's stated approach) we seem to second-guess and judge ourselves; or sometimes even question if we have the right to say what we want to say - feel what we feel (or don't). And then not act on it, because we're unsure.

(Maybe this is just me, too.)

Twoapenny:
Well, lovely Lighter, to be very blunt I  don't think your brother's input at this very late stage in the process is welcome or necessary.  There seems to be a lot more stress attached to this trip with him there (and all of the trips have seemed stressful, in one way or another!).  He doesn't seem to have been terribly involved up until this point and if you hadn't done all this work the beach house would still be a shack on a beach needing a lot of work so I think he needs to be doing what you tell him and no more, to be honest :)  And you don't need a man to take care of you, ye gods, has he met you??!!  The most competent and self reliant woman on the planet - and she needs a man to look after her.  I am feeling a bit vomity :)  Lol xx

And Frenchman needs chucking back in the sea - talks too much, doesn't respect boundaries and makes you feel uncomfortable in your own home.  No, door bolted, get rid.  Brother thinks he's a good worker because he can sand wood?  My cat can sand wood, Lighter, it's really not a difficult job, as I'm sure you know!  I don't think you need to worry about whether your rabbit holes are real or imagined, or breath through them.  You are an incredibly accomplished, hard working, endlessly honest human being who has rebuilt that beach house very painstakingly and I'm feeling very angry on your behalf that these men are undermining all of that. 

I'm glad the wind is blowing through the beach house, Lighter, and I hope it's blowing these annoying men away with it.  Don't let them make you second guess yourself and do you know what, I say stop worrying about saying things gently, kindly, sweetly.  Say what needs to be said for you, not for anyone else.  I can send you a list of my best British swear words if you want :)  Lol xx xx xx

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