Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board

FACING CODEPENDENCE, What it is, Where it comes from, How it Sabotages our lives

<< < (8/10) > >>

Hopalong:
Maybe it wasn't "attraction" I was thinking of, in the usual sense. I'm pondering, and wondering if, instead, it's more like a hyper alert kind of ATTENTION to male figures in your world. Perhaps it's a natural pattern for you, and on a deep level an awareness of potential complications and dangers.

I'd just love to know you can have a gentle, simple male friendship one day, IF you want one.

I'm probably projecting all over the map. I'm sorry I was off-key. I've pretty much let go of hopes for that connection myself, and that's overall more comfortable, but my life is so women-centered I feel as though I live in a social nunnery.

I nearly fell in love with the handyman, until I all of a sudden stopped trusting who he is, and began seeing him as manipulative with charm, etc. All about him. Sigh. Sometimes you realize you're such a slow learner that you really won't grasp reality until you're on the way out. Bummer!

hugs
Hops

sKePTiKal:
Hops, I would swear that these types of people (yeah, some women too) give off shivering, wet, poor puppy pheromones! They do attract those who haven't learned the lesson of what a tar baby act that is - altho, they honestly believe they are genuinely in desperate need. (Can we PLEASE revive the old fairy tales for kids?? Human nature doesn't change and seldom "evolves".)

Sad to say - this is a worn out marketing trick used by some charities - at least for those, like me, that have been taken advantage of by said manipulation of ye olde heart strings and good intentions. And I still get fooled. Our mothering instincts are our own worst enemies in those situations, I think. I still take the gamble, sometimes, to give a "hand up" to people who - from my observation - are flailing, struggling, trying to get some traction in their lives. They're trying to learn; I'm trying to teach.

These guys/gals are like hummingbirds - attracted to the color red, whether that's a flower, a feeder, or a solar light. No discernment, just playing the odds.

lighter:
Girls are socialized.

Boys are socialized.

People repeat coping strategies they used in childhood.

Some humans can self reflect. 
Some can't, and never will.

Assuming everyone has a moral compass is a mistake.

I think I've arrived at the place where there's no denying.....
some people are safe. 
Some aren't.

 It's a moral imperative to see, to look at others.....
to interpret what they show us, and makeself protective choices, IME.

Some people are masters at misdirection.  Some sense the "weakness,"that is compassion, within others, and exploit it.

I don't feel compassion is weakness.  I have zero interest in people lacking compassion. 

It's discernment, assertiveness, intuition and entitlement to self protection......that's trained out of little girls.......its lacking....for little girls.  Absent.  Software installed.... and the answer isn't giving up on people, marriage, tribe, but holy guacamole......
tribe, culture, socialization is often dangerous......poisonous, destructive, IME.
 Esp to girls and women..... minorities. Destructive to men and boys, also....incels are red flags'a fly'in.  Poor dears. 

Look around.....mothers destroy their daughters, on purpose.......I look at my girl's friend's FOOs.  There's violence, torture, accusations against one DD of seducing the father, so that DD was forced into a shed, with no running water or electricity ...forced to chop wood for a little stove to keep from freezing.  We didn't know until years after she moved out, but that's mental illness on both parent's parts, imo. 

The torment, I speak of, was done to a male friend who was physically abused and ridiculed by a crazy stepfather.....and the mom knew.....she knew about all of it.

We're unwell and raising unwell children to carry out generational illness and trauma, while pretending to be well and normal, IME. 

Divorce rates, and movements like 4B or the 4No's, are logical consequences, imo.

We'll see where things go.

I'd like to be done with....
 being surprised by people.

 It would be such a relief to bounce over coping, grasping, illogical self defeating choices, more quickly.

Lordy, let discernment lead.

Lighter








There should be no mystery, about that, by now.

sKePTiKal:
There is truth in your words Lighter. No disputing that.
But there are people who grow OUT of their childhood conditioning. Who discover "another way" early enough to work at becoming different - if not better.

There are even worse things going on in "society" these days, that I hardly recognize it. And am hard pressed to define it as a "society" many times.

So, I worry about the things I can control; the people who can (sometimes) hear me... the ones who are capable of learning. They must be able to empty their cup first, ya know? And that's not an invalidation of "what they think they know" - it's a mind exercise to let them look at things from a different place.

No, some people aren't safe. We are not obligated to be friendly with them and share the authentic parts of ourselves with them. We should be civil and polite - as long as they are being the same. IMO, it isn't healthy to want to share your total self with EVERYONE. That's a Facebook idea that, again IMO, has done a severe amount of damage to a lot of people, psychologically speaking. It not only disrespects people's personal boundaries - it declares that boundaries don't exist!! And shouldn't exist!!

Compassion takes a lot of bravery and much strength. And it's not an either/or proposition - it's an "and" - compassion AND self-protection; not over-sharing and clearly stating your preferred boundaries. No matter how hard "they" tried - my "smart ass" and personal "assertiveness" wasn't going to follow those rules. No sirreee. No way, no how, could "they" make me feel shame for not being a "lady". I didn't like it; it itched; it was ugly and fake. I couldn't run, jump, climb trees or not get dirty. To me: that was the take-away from "The Emperor's New Clothes". False fronts usually suffer an excruciating demise. Humilatingly so. Funny thing to me is, most of those people don't feel any shame in being fake and simply "shift skins" without ever getting the lesson.

And I still to this day screw up and make mistakes about people. My discernment and intuition is usually about 90% right. But I don't always get the whole picture initially. Fortunately, it hasn't hurt me to admit I've been wrong about someone or something. Shift directions and keep on truckin'. Some days, I swear nothing works right, too. I just sit that day out... and wait for whatever is off kilter to rebalance.

I have never heard of some of the "social phenomenons" you mention; the incels I know - but don't completely understand. So I can't speak to those. I think we all know SOME mothers try to destroy their daughters, but others are simply doing the best they can, without a manual, and are struggling with their own conditioning also. They could at least TRY. Some mothers are down right ignorant and mean. One of the things, across the board, both Hol and I agree NEEDS to happen in parenting but usually doesn't is education about emotions. Regulation of emotions. How they fit into all the things that make a "person". I have gotten her to see that no one taught us, either - we just made our own rules up. That there ISN'T ANYWHERE a pattern or model or ideal to become or follow or work towards.

Maybe it's a lot like the spirituality seeking trap. Looking for enlightment and becoming "perfect". I read a lot Grandpa's HS literature books when I was very young - Emerson, Thoreau, Ivanhoe... the Indian stories. History. In some way, I THINK that helped me but it still didn't provide any processes or ideals for me. I dunno. Life didn't come with an instruction manual either. I know the Bible failed for me, when my life became something completely different and unaddressed in those pages. And yes, like the complete works of Shakespeare, I read the whole book. No one answered my questions - I know now, they couldn't. But then, it felt like there was a secret someone was keeping from me. Like I needed to be "of age" to go through the initiation rites. I tried that too... and that didn't help.

But sitting in nature, tending my gardens... saying good morning to birds and the kitties that stayed out overnight hunting vermin...listening to the frog chorus in the early night... there is peace. There is happiness. There is wisdom in the plants, trees and wildlife. Non-judgemental, accepting, and kind - sometimes. Sometimes brutal. People forget nature carries both creation and destruction. They encourage one side of it and fear/fight against the other.

But I'm still learning, so just take this as the ramblings of a silly old woman. Want some tea? LOLOLOLOLOL Maybe a shot of something stronger in it? Life doesn't have to be an endless struggle.

Hopalong:
What a satisfying and profound thread. I'm feeling very grateful to have read this, this morning.

I can't write much right now due to computer issues, but wanted to say that both your thoughtful, exploratory diggings have been so absorbing and mind-awakening today.

Much gratitude, much respect. And Amber, what you downplay as "rambling" ia anything but. You're clear, cogent, lucid and, for me, a teacher in the best sense.

Hugs
Hops

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page