Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Mindfulness and codependence thread
lighter:
--- Quote from: Twoapenny on February 09, 2020, 04:46:32 AM ---
--- Quote from: lighter on February 08, 2020, 12:15:10 PM ---Tupp:
I think partly it was the prep for court, but also just the hyper-vigilant state of BEING. We had to live with every consequence, which was out of our control, so we became hyper-focused on everything we could control.
Yes, I can identify with that, Lighter. I think also, with parenting (from the perspective of your parenting being questioned), anything you do can be portrayed as a negative, depending on the perspective of someone else. Take your daughter's recent sleepy day off. Some would say that's good parenting - you're encouraging healthcare, appreciating the need to rest, allowing her to make her own choices (thereby encouraging independence in adulthood). And so on. Whereas some would argue she should have been forced in - a day off encourages laziness, a lack of responsibility, an attitude of not bothering, and so on. And I think, when you know that anything you do can be used against you, if someone else wants to make it a negative, that hypervigilent state sees you covering all possible bases and it's exhausting. Yes, I'm nodding! Well those days of being judged and attacked are gone now, Tupp. We're safe.
Our nervous systems will shake it off when we feel safe. We'll leave it behind, where it belongs.
T and I talked about food stuff at last appt. It was't about what I thought it would be about, I'll say that. More about control and feeling unworthy balled up together.
Yes, that makes sense to me, too. If I cook from scratch, I'm a good mum. If I stick a pizza in the ove, I'm lazy and don't care about his health. That's how I feel about myself so I can understand that it's about control and needing to be worthy. Yes.
While packing yesterday I notice that old familiar sense of urgency creep in. I noticed it, banished it or didn't and went on. Banishing is better. Much better. This moring has been pure joy in motion... just focused solely on ONE thing at a time, in the present... so nice.
Yes, it almost feels like if you acknowledge it's there, it won't keep banging on the window asking to be let in? Yup... we tend to it. Ask it what it has to say..... coming to our senses.... what do we feel? Where is it in the body? Breathe into.... calm it down and go back to the present moment. That's how I experience it lately.
I hope the new pathways, old business filed away in historic files (no longer creating the reactivity that USED to pop up in those areas) and being aware... able to choose something else (most of the time, not ALL the time) is working itself into a new way of BEING in the world. Of SEEING and FEELING and, more than anything, of cutting out the chatter maybe.....
like I'm a firewall maybe? At some point, maybe the firewall will simply be that open amazing field my T keeps referring to..... SO MUCH SPACE.... and there won't be much chatter or judgment to deal with at all. And I'll BE that open spacious grassy field with a view of all the trees and pebbles and flowers without effort.
Maybe there will be automatic acceptance and curiosity about EVERYTHING..... maybe?
Imagine being in that state almost all of the time, Lighter - so freeing and easy? Oh, that's what's happening, is it? Why YES, TUPP.
I think it is: ) How interesting! And then just getting on with what you're doing. Sounds almost yogi like? How nice :) It's joy and energy and flow too!
Last night I was tired and about to sleep when I felt a little weird... not bad or good, just weird. I thought.... Is this what my Dad had? A little brain bleed and will it kill me or leave me recovering from a stroke? It's hereditary.
The interesting part of that, from my perspective, is I wasn't worried or frightened or upset or wishing I'd done A, B and C that day.... I was just at peace with it and curious what would come next. Truly. Curious. No stomach flip at the thought. It was acceptance.... as default. I guess. It felt so much better than what I think of as my "normal" response.
That is interesting, Lighter, although I'm glad it wasn't a stroke! But yes, nicer to have a calm reaction than an immediately panicked one.
BTW, I think my brain was adjusting to 12-hour fasts AND small amounts of nutrition-dense foods....salads and bone broths with lots of water(sprinkled with a little pink salt) taken with anti-inflammatories.
Yes, makes sense that might be shifting things around a little.
I've also been stretching ANYTIME I stand up and feel a bit stiff. I refuse to walk funny ONE MORE STEP. I don't care where I am or who sees.... I STRETCH and that takes care of the stiffness.
I've been doing the same! How funny! Stretching at the bus stop, stretching on the bus, at the cinema, in the queue at the shop. We were in a shop during the week and son told me to stop dancing - I was bopping around to the music in the shop and hadn't noticed. When we went to the arcade yesterday son was in once of those racing games, the one where you sit inside a car and race? I sat in the passenger seat and read my book - wasn't thinking about what other people would think if they saw me. Taking care of self - it's a new one, isn't it??! Yes... it's new BUT it's also not something I'm thinking about, planning or trying to make happen.... this time. It's just flow INTO doing without thoughts about anything else. I don't think about helping others in those moments. It's complete immersion without distraction. I know I'm a good person, but I'm a better person when I take care of myself first, consistently.... and that comes and goes... that state of being..... without thinking.
My left hip started creeking earlier this week... meaning I noticed some hinkiness with lifting left knee, which was a problem this time last year. The stretches I got from the book PAIN FREE fixed it, more precisely so that's a no brainer.... DO THAT.
I gave a copy of the book to my neighbor whose overcoming catastrophic illness, and I'm curious to see how he feels about it and if he tries it. I'm not sure if he can read well or at all... he lost his good eye during the illness, had a stroke, lost a lot of skin and some ligaments.... other things, but he's a warrior and mostly engaged in Western medicine to gut his way back... had his colostomy reversed, but expressing huge interest in "alternative" ideas at this point, for the first time. He's "awake" now.
The book PAIN FREE by Pete Egoscue is a big deal with alternative med practitioners... .there's a clinic near my very active friend who suffers from cartilage loss (major loss) in his shoulders mostly, but knees too and he still... he plays high-level tennis, bikes 60 miles a week average, swims, works out with weights used to compete in Jujitsu... triathlons, monitors his sleep with his fit bit, etc. He's been going to his ortho guy, getting death shots, discussing surgery while I've been saying GO TO THE EGOSCUE CLINIC and just see what they have to say! You're lucky to live a half-hour away from them, GO! They'll align all the joints in your body and you can start building the cartilege back! But noooo... he wouldn't do it until his orthopedic surgeon told him to, lol.
Last week his ortho guy told him to try Egoscue.
The active friend called to say he made that appt. They asked him some interesting questions....
"Did he have a fear of snakes?" I thought that was very interesting, yes yes yes.
He went on..
"How did he feel about shrunken heads?"
Well that tells you how friend really feels about it. He's joking now, but honestly... I think he's desperate and Western meds done all it can without making jello of the joints, which happens sometimes before folks get to Egoscue.
I have no feelings about it either way and I have to say... last year this time I would have felt resentment and frustration over his refusal to make that appointment a year ealier. Now... 3 years after i began suggesting it.... he goes bc his Ortho told him to. That he's done more damage and not begun treating the cause and building back those joints.....
feels.....
almost neutral for me. There was a small shot of heat through my stomach, but I think it was almost my expectation I'd feel something negative.
I don't.
This is huge progress, IMO. I used to worry about his joints, and fret and neeeed him to make that appointment. That's changed.
This is ringing so many bells with m, Lighter, I have always felt so obliged to share anything that might help with anyone that might benefit from it and then feel dejected if they don't rush off to do it or if it doesn't work for them. And I just haven't been this time. I know loads of people who might well benefit from this EMDR - but I'm finding I'm thinking, they know I'm doing it, I'm talking about all the ways it's helping me. If that pings a recognition in them that it might help them and they want to ask me about it, then I'm happy to talk. But I feel like I want to save my energy for me now, and people who want to take it further themselves, rather than trying to rescue everyone around me. We're putting on our own life jackets before fastening other people's now, maybe?
I'm limiting my radio/tv severely. I notice I go to turn them on without thinking about it. NOT turning them on refocuses me and helps dial in what's going on inside. Things pop up. I breathe mindfully often throughout the day, which IME is a game-changer.
I haven't been doing that but I might give it a go now you've mentioned it!OK... so the TV and radio are mostly OFF. I listen to Eckhart Tolle.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi3d0Maed68&feature=youtu.be
this was the one I listened to while cleaning the tub... I mean... I detailed that tub.
It was wonderful. I took apart the handle and bleached it.... took apart the drain and cleared/bleached it. All down to the surfaces.
Another HUGE thing about not having the TV on is.... I find I don't have the urge to eat so much. TV on.... there's almost an underlying tension of need and desire to figure out something to eat..... and I mean constant. TV OFF... I don't notice hunger or desire to put food in my mouth. I find I'm enjoying that almost empty feeling again in my life while making mindful choices when I'm truly hungry. If the TV is off I'm likely to put on a pot of bone and veggie broth and have several cups through the day then a super large salad or two..... and I'm OK again. But once that TV goes on....it feels like Pavlov's dogs.... IS there a message coming through the tv.... eat eat consume eat OR am I just used to a pattern of behaviors? Not sure, but it's a no brainer to keep the TV off when I'm practicing mindful eating.
I also like moving through my day when it's quiet, which is new. I guess I could put a beloved familiar movie on, as background... I don't watch... it's just noise, but..... I'm curious what I'll find in the between the noise and thoughts.
The boat trip will be sometime in the next 5 days... depending on weather. I'm not keen on loading the boat down then taking off in high seas, nope nope nope. I'll get wet no matter what's going on, but want things to be relatively calm and sunny. Brother said 20 foot waves are 40 feet tall. DID I post that already? That's super interesting to me. I have a fascination with the ocean, some fear and lots of wonder. My hope is to learn how to drive the boat, handle it in any conditions and make the trip myself. I think I'll know pretty quickly if it's my thing or not. WOO HOO! Deep sea fishing again soon! Not much, and only Queen Trigger fish.... so much fun. Better than lobster, SO GOOD.
That, for me, is bravery in its highest form! The thought of a forty foot wave has me getting as far away from any pool of water that may be anywhere near me :) Lol, I will be glad for you to make the journey on calm seas, Lighter, with some fishing and beautiful sunsets to enjoy, no storms to cope with! Do you ever get seasick? I was a car sick kid, but I don't recall being seasick. Reading in the car is a big NO NO. Being on the boat, the last trip... no problem at all, thank God.
The journey continues.
Lighter
--- End quote ---
I am really glad all of this is unfolding for you, Lighter. I shall keep a picture in my mind of you on a boat, with the sun on your back and a clear and calm ocean in front of you :) It's a good metaphor for life, I think :) xx
--- End quote ---
I think you're spot on with the metaphor, Tupp. Also, we can view life and the sea and what comes next as friendly or unfriendly. I I'm choosing friendly!
Just finished sluffing skin, using pore cleaning strips, then will put on a little tanner and get out of the house. I know I'll feel better with a little faux sun on my face..... I'm usually notin the frame of mind to care. Today I'm just DOING without thinking. No judgment or shoulds... just DOING. It's nice, (((Tupp.)) Will keep you updated.
Lighter
lighter:
I want to jot down stuff I've been noticing and working on.
Being heard is huge for me now. Speaking with a calm steady voice, not getting emotional and speaking so I feel heard. Sometimes things come out harsh, in my father's words... with his delivery..... and it's like a blunt object falling.
That's not my way, but it's coming out when I can't find a way and get frustrated. I see that. I notice I don't want to do that. I can speak without getting frustrated going forward....and that's about feeling entitled to be heard, have voice and take care of myself. It's my job. I'm supposed to do that. It's not up for debate or discussion. I get to do that. People can listen or not, but there are consequences.
I get to state boundaries and consequences for overstepping. I get to enforce those boundaries. There's no question that I will or won't. It's just how it is. No fretting or worrying about it now.
I'll handle responses, protests and whining as it comes up and it will come up. That's OK as long as I don't have to control what others believe or gain their understanding. I don't need to.
How I feel and what I understand is the important piece in this.
I feel closer to sibs for the effort to speak up.
I feel understood, like I'm in charge of getting my needs met and will get them met.
I don't need others to understand or be OK. I want them to be OK, of course, but that doesn't determine my mental stability.
I'm responding (more often) and reacting less. It takes no getting used to. It's just a change.
Lighter
Twoapenny:
--- Quote from: lighter on March 04, 2020, 12:41:55 PM ---I want to jot down stuff I've been noticing and working on.
Being heard is huge for me now. Speaking with a calm steady voice, not getting emotional and speaking so I feel heard. Sometimes things come out harsh, in my father's words... with his delivery..... and it's like a blunt object falling.
That's not my way, but it's coming out when I can't find a way and get frustrated. I see that. I notice I don't want to do that. I can speak without getting frustrated going forward....and that's about feeling entitled to be heard, have voice and take care of myself. It's my job. I'm supposed to do that. It's not up for debate or discussion. I get to do that. People can listen or not, but there are consequences.
I get to state boundaries and consequences for overstepping. I get to enforce those boundaries. There's no question that I will or won't. It's just how it is. No fretting or worrying about it now.
I'll handle responses, protests and whining as it comes up and it will come up. That's OK as long as I don't have to control what others believe or gain their understanding. I don't need to.
How I feel and what I understand is the important piece in this.
I feel closer to sibs for the effort to speak up.
I feel understood, like I'm in charge of getting my needs met and will get them met.
I don't need others to understand or be OK. I want them to be OK, of course, but that doesn't determine my mental stability.
I'm responding (more often) and reacting less. It takes no getting used to. It's just a change.
Lighter
--- End quote ---
I love boundaries more and more, Lighter, things are so much easier when everyone knows where your line in the sand is and doesn't try to trifle with you. I would just say don't give yourself a hard time if you don't convey as well as you'd like to - we're all still learning and I think it will get easier in time. The difference between responding and reacting is huge! Who would have thought. I'm glad it's starting to mesh together a little easier and coming more easily over time xx
Hopalong:
That's BIG, Lighter!
About the voice control and demeanor, and not channeling father. Bravo.
I notice that you often mention consequences. Knowing your background in martial arts, I'm sure you mention them in the same calm, unthreatening way. It might be challenging to NOT see dialogue or emotional interactions with loved ones in terms of BATTLE.
Probably the most important consequences in drawing boundaries, in my experience, don't have a ton to do with others (except of course with kids). But mostly, I think, the most valuable consequences are for the self. Such as:
--This dialogue is feeling toxic or borderline abusive to me. My consequence for myself is that I will say, "I am feeling frustrated so I'm going to take a half-hour for a walk. We can continue when I get back." (Or, later today, whatever....)
--This person (non family) does not appear to be hearing me. I will state my request (same calm tone) two more times. If it's not responded to, I will say: "This is not satisfactory to me. I will find someone in a management role to see how to get it resolved." (And then exit.)
Stuff like that. If there is any risk of internally confusing "consequence" with "punishment", it might be best to make the first priority defining consequences for the self. That de-escalates most conflicts, I think. It helps not to live in battle mode.
You know I make all this up, right? Just my opinions. But they do come from years of pondering and thinking about boundaries, fwiw.
Hugs and kudos,
Hops
lighter:
Tupp:
I KNOW better than to be hard on myself for doing my best, but sometimes it's not so easy, is it?
I'm feeling more confident and curious about how I'll handle myself going forward.
And you're right... the boundaries are so important. ONce they're in place things get easier, cut trouble off at the pass, point out where our attention needs to shift without confusion.
Yup yup yup.
Lighter
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