Author Topic: Mindfulness and codependence thread  (Read 136661 times)

Hopalong

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #690 on: August 26, 2021, 11:13:05 PM »
These aren't as good as what you're doing, but they're FUN.

North Spore mushroom kits on Amazon.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #691 on: August 28, 2021, 03:11:42 PM »
I'm plodding contentedly through multi tasking hours..... watching a gel stain video (cross fingers is a solution) as I brillo off 30 years of burned on much from a 80 year old baking pan my Grandmother used to back with.

I like the tin cake pans..... they're unwarped and sturdy.... remind me of my Grandmother's farm kitchen and maybe I can ;hang some of them for use.... perhaps they'll be beautiful.  TBD.

I noticed I get sideways every time I put SHOULDS in place or honor someone elses priorities over my own.  It's always a mistake.  Always leads to what is, by now, a tediously confusing trek around a block I'm ready to leave behind.

I'm so happy when I'm in the zone and the zone always includes one thing.....
it's always ME engaged happily in things I've chosen and have prioritized. 

I don't have to go round and rouind about NOT prioritizing other people or what they want or need or say they need.


I can skip ahead to the 51% rule and get on with it. Whatever it is.  The rule remain the same, basically..... I think.

Accepting I'm worthy of 51% factors in as well as old patterns swirling around and reactivity I can't or didn't see coming.  Sometimes I get knocked sideways and I'll recognize why sooner, recover sooner, forgive myself for it sooner..... yup yup yup.

If I continue expanding my 2 or 3 second delay, before reacting..... I'll consistently expand choice and truly get on to the next phase, IMO.  Not that I'll leave phass behind.... they'll simply help me move through and on to what comes next. I'm curious about what comes next.

In the meantime...... gel stains, figuring out where the Contractor went (his tool trailer is still here and he said he'll be bak after finishing the elderly ladie's deck) editing, curating and dealing with all the kitchen/family stuff...... there will be a downstairs kitchen here, so can start boxes for those things too.  All these projects going at once are overwhelming for me, bc organization isn't a strength, particularly when dealing with THINGS I have emotional attachments to.

My garage at home is half full of things I've schlepped from the farm...... just all kinds of things I'm not sure what to do with yet.

And... I'm just carrying on with each thing in front of me.  Tryng to find the joy, as I did while cleaning the cake pan....... I noticed I was frustrated over Dad's caretaker basically giving up caring for the house the way she did..... after Dad's surgery. 

And things get sticky here, bc I don't want to waste time with that or feel frustrated any longer over 25 year old history.... but I'm dealing with the fallout.... have always dealt with fallout from those particular decisions, bc I was the only one aware of the factors, standing up to point them out, DOING the work, bc it needed to be done and ya...... we're talking about adults, but we're talking about HUGE impacts on MY lifem, my days, my hours and minutes.

And letting it go will be a balm.  Not picking it back up will be trick after trick after trick till it's a new pathway.... easier to travel than not.

Less....
how did we get here?!

More....
where will I go from here?!

The grass is green
The sky is blue.

Mistakes were made.
Always will be.

Now what?

Lighter





lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #692 on: August 28, 2021, 05:55:06 PM »
CB:

When my Step Father told me it was time to put on make up and date again..... 2009, it was......I told him I wanted to use my energy for myself.  He was puzzled by my response.

At that time.... it wasn't an option to entertain dating/marriage.   I wasn't in a psoition to do anything but put one foot in front of another and keep going with my children. 

In 2013 a Criminal Forensic Psych, acting as expert witness in my custody case, asked if I'd dated the 5 years since my husband's death.  She was so relieved the answer was NO, bc she was looking down the road, picturing a controlling lying liar testifying against me and she didn't want to go up aainst that too.

Nope nope nope. 

It's been a choice for a while now and I completely understand.

I'm so enjoying being with my DD21 right now.  Things are really good.
Lighter


lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #693 on: August 28, 2021, 07:20:12 PM »

I've texted with the friend I was trying to help with her health problems..... the one at the Nutritional Response Practitioner appointment..... yelling "She's a fucking bitch!" 
That one.

I asked if her eyeglasses were fitted and the right prescription, bc she was afraid they were the wrong Rx BEFORE having them fitted to her face.  I don't know what she did or didn't do. I'm trying to follow up and get that handled for her, bc she got the glasses from DD's old work place.  We'd make everything right for her as quick as could be managed.

What I know is her mother had surgery and my friend has listed that as reason not to be in touch with me.... and it's tugging at my brain, bc I think I used to be THAT person who put off my basic needs in order to help people who didn't do their own work, take care of their own health or be a part of solutions.... they created problems, over and over. 

And my friend might be one of the people creating problems.... for herself... for me.  Maybe she took care of her mother, in the past,  at the expense of her children...... I remember when friend took her mother in and cared for her only to come home one day and find her mother gone, along with all the toilet paper and paper towels in the house.  Her mother wasn't in her life for the majority of her childhood, btw.

It was such a dick move on her mother's part to steal stuff and run out without saying goodbye or thank you or anything and her mother houses druggy half sibs.....my friend adopted one of those half sib's babies from the hospital.  Has shouldered more than her fair share of family burdens and still..... she continues with the pattern of stepping up, bc she's typically the only one who does.  Maybe the others don't bc they know she will?

Maybe they just aren't the kind to know how or identify when they should...maybe they don't understand they could or should OR....
maybe they have better boundaries?  One of her 2 sisters was supposed to adopt the child my friend took, bc ut backed out at the last minute and left the baby in the hospital without a plan. That sister went ahead and adopted another child, so it wasn't about not being ready, etc.  They had no children.  My friend had raised 3 children with an abusive N who dragged her though years of good'ol boy courtrooms, just beating the crap out of her there and behind closed doors, before she got away from him and I really wanted to give her the hand her family never could or would.  Once my friend left her abusive hushand with her 2 young children, and her family sent her back to him....he raped her and she got pregnant a third time.  For Pete's sake.... some people just suffer and suffer and she's one of those, but I'm paying very close attention to this.....and......

I'm not so sure putting her own care on the back burner, in order to BE there for her mother at this time..... is the right choice. I'm not claiming I know, but it feels so familiar to me.... and such a boundary transgression at the same time..... one she's invited, like I did when my father didn't do his own due diligence regarding surgery. 

He didn't pay attention when I did.  I wasted my time and all I got was this stinking t shirt with "I was right, again" on it....and he did what he was gonna do, despite the time and energy I spent.  I felt kicked in the teeth, in fact.

I didn't feel any better. I felt worse, in fact for going out of my way....steering myself out of my own lane, so to speak.

And I feel like my friend has done the same for her mother, again and again with nothing positive to show for it.  One kick in the teeth after another and if we get kicked in the teeth.... again and again.... at some point it's our refusal to move, refusal to stop baring our teeth and making them available.... right?

That flipped my stomach, bc I'm positive our identities are tied up, to lesser or greater degrees, in caretaker/helping.....and...... we have to find our edges.  Find them, harden them and defend them, IMO.

On a happier note, another friend...we'll call her Mama K, is more or less back in my life after being absent for many reasons for many years.

She's experienced devastation after devastation and overcome everything..... just a really tough cookie..... an Amazon for sure.  My other friend is tough too... an Amazon BUT she can't see her edges.  She's more deeply mired..... her boundaries have always been very blurred..... never hard and she's always taking in strays she can't afford to care for....... I'm sorry to say I believe her mother is in that category.  She has less choice in her life.... is how it appears TO me.

::asking self if I feel bad about that statement about friend's mother:.

Nope.

That friend doesn't give up hope, even when people have shown her who they are over and over and over and I don't want to be a person repeating patterns, without end, even wen I have enough infomation to KNOW what's what, kwim?  I want to learn and grow and most of all accept what's true.

So, Mama K has had surgery on 2 vertebrae recently, needs another surgery on a third, is up and going to horse shows and meetings with her just graduated from hs dd............working full time, dealing majestically with the loss of her son 13 years ago and loss of her dh 13mo ago to cancer.... she just keeps going and making choices that move her and her youngest dd ahead in the world.  She lost a grandson.... suffered terrible childhood abuse at the hands of her sister and neighbood boys who harmed her over a period of years.... and she's just so authentic and down to earth and funny and able to find the darkness and laugh so she remains sane, but it does come and go and she sees it...can talk about it.  Go back to making good and better choices.  Practiing self control.

Is that it?  Is it more or less posessing self control?  The ability to put off gratification?  Not so much about intelligence, but about habits, boundaries and resilience?

Both friends suffered at the hands of an abusive sister.  Both divorced abusive men.  Both had 3 children in their first marriages then a baby later in life.... after the older children were born, but they're still so different.

They both have health issues.

Oh dear. Am I spending time on comparisons?  And if I am...... is there a good reason?  Is there ever a good reason to compare people?

I know this.... I hope I never abandon myself in order to support someone who won't take care of themself or do the minimum self care, bc I keep doing it for them.  Esp bc I keep doing it for them!

::looking at that statement and how it applies to my father and his caretaker.... my FOO in general::.

My Moss friend says she can picture my life if I were taking care of my own business and not everyone elses.  Her words. Not mine.  It was sobering to see myself through the eyes of someone outside my FOO and general circle. 

AM I that friend..... am I the friend who doesn't do basic self care before helping others.  Have I always NOT put my own oxygen mask on first and if that's true.... why?  Does it matter? 

I think changing patterns and putting the damned mask on myself first, consistently, is enough.

In the meantime.... Mama K has been gl/s/d free for 2 months in an effort to deal with the inflammation she's suffering with the spinal surgery.  It seems so smart to me and she doesn't want pain pills.... she wants to change her habits, make better choices and get herself feeling better.  All the trust we lost and all the time.... we're making up for it all, joyfully, and it's so good, guys.

mama K's  GP asked her what she really wants to do and she said she wants to set a date to go to the Cottage with me.... not next winter, but the one after that and BE HAPPY, having taken good care of herself, dropped weight she intends to lose for her health, dealt with inflammation at the cause and simplified her life, which isn't simple now, bc.....
bc someone drew unemployment benefits fraudulently under her name while her husband was dying and sometimes really dreadful things happen to some people more often than others, but not bc of their choices..... so many moving parts.  Always has been for her.  Always. 

Sometimes it's just the monkey typing...... the grass is green, the sky is blue.  Things sometimes happen to some people, even if they aren't making sad choices..... but in spite of very good choices things happen again and again.... to some people.  It's a thing. This is known.

The last time I spoke to Mama K..... when we were very close friends in 2008... her H was an arse and they were on the verge of divorce and in the time we weren't speaking....... Mama K somehow raised her husband, as she puts it, and he became a man and they fell in love all over again, then cancer came and took him away.  After all that. 

And this husband....this husband lost a leg in an accident before he met her and fathered a child with a married woman who's likely an ASPD and that son did his best to kill Mama K and dh's same age dd from the moment the little guy could walk.  At a point Mama K got custody of him, bc his mother was into drugs and there was bad abuse in the home and that made RAD dx possible, which lead to mama K being stabbed by this child.... when he was about 7yo...... and so many terrible stories later this boy was placed into a home for troubled children and mama K didn't have to lock her dd in every night to keep her safe.... or herself.... what kind of luck is that? Is it a pattern?  Did Mama K ask for all that trouble? Who could SEE that coming, even with the complication of a married woman being pregnant with her intended's baby at the same time SHE was newly married and pregnant..... who would SEE that coming? 

And that boy and his mother are in the world.....
the grass is green, the sky is blue.
In the dating pool.  Hopefully medicated.  Just very dangerous people and I have to wonder....
SO much tragedy, so many complications and trouble....... how could she know? 

I guess it's possible some unconscious part of her knew things would get this darned dangerous and messy?  SO not sure about that.

Mama K stepped up.  Tried to help that child, even though he was a menace and disturbed... poor thing...he was dangerous every single day he was in her home, made false accusations against her...... was sneaky every day trying to molest or kill his little half sib sister, tried to scratch and blind her while she was driving at high speeds on the highway, bc his mother poisoned his mind against her and her dd AND abused him in her unstable home with older disordered children and men in and out and here I am.... contemplating that which is not mine to contemplate, but it seems relevant to MY life in that......I want to make sense of my chioces and patterns and current situation...... where I'm heading. What I've left behind... the choices Ill make going forward. 

Mama K has always been a growing person.  Always risen above.  So has my other friend, but...... she it's always 2 steps forward, one step back.... never 3 steps forward..... never not taking steps back, not able to overcome..... unable to overcome heartbreak and ties to a family unable to do better.....and so it seems she remains there... with them...... unable to grow beyond them.... I think.

So much potential, but never moving past those ties.  Enmeshed. Codependent.  Tied up in patterns she can't identify and therefore can't change.

I guess.

I had a lovely chat with my brother today.  It seems my father's caretaker is asking to stay with him for a while.

Now.... my brother offered to take her in to live with him.  She said NO.... she was staying with her dd. 

I'm thinking about this.... brother had to take a call.... I didn't give him an opinion,but I'm thinking about that right now.

Lighter









lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #694 on: August 28, 2021, 07:53:24 PM »
I nailed down the paint brands, colors, 2 gel stain colors and sealing products I want to use on the very large kitchen project at the lake. Will approach it like 3 different projects with 3 different finishes.... not matchy matchy.  Distressing existing majority of the golden oak cabinets then adding a coat of black gel stain, sealing that, sanding, then adding a brown coat of gel stain, sealing, sanding then adding at least 2 coats of water based sealer over that with sanding in between coats. Maybe a third coat of sealer.... depends. I'd like to do it without removing the doors and drawers.  Will see.  I love this kind of work.

And...... the bar will get painted charcoal black/gray..... tiny bit of distressing. Almost none.  The better job I do, the less distressing called for, uh huh. 

The center island will be painted black then distressed to show quite a bit of the stained wood beneath to bridge between the distressed stained cabinets and the painted black island.

I posted this here, bc......
I'm considering the question Hops posed to me about why I'm doing this work at the lake house. 

I'm a tiny bit afraid to really look at the answers.

Lighter


lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #695 on: August 29, 2021, 11:26:54 AM »
CB:

I've been jotting down thoughts I have while busy around the house so I can come back and touch base.  I stopped editing and spell checking, so I'm sure some of my posts make no sense.  The running stream of consciousness is what it is.  I benefit from getting it OUT of my head, even though I know it's just slapped there.

After sleeping on it, I realize my friend,making choices NOT in her best interest, might be choosing to let life go.  She talked about making that choice a few months ago.  That's upsetting for me. I experience upset when I'm resisting acceptance, esp that kind of acceptance, bc I care about her.  I so wanted her to turn things around.... .  I don't know if she can, but I have to step back and lean into acceptance, whatever she chooses.

My other friend, Mama K, is doing so well..... just an uplifting update from her and I realize how badly I've missed her over the years.  I'm afraid I'm not half as strong as her and it scares me a little.  It's OK if I'm not superwoman and I have to accept that.  It's OK if she has the internal fortitude of 2 superwomen. 

Yesterday it struck me..... the codependence my depessed frriend exhibits is something I've struggled with too.  It hit me...maybe I'm still repeating those patterns,likely am,but I'm doing pretty good with new patterns and noticing old ones.  I just blurted that anxiety out on the board.....that's what it was.

I do still worry worry worry worry until I get my breathing under control, do what I can, then put the story on the shelf..... get back to what I'm doing.... find my joy.  I'm still building those pathways in herky jerky fashion.   

Right now I'm getting along really well with oldest dd 21.  She's singing in the kitchen with me, swaying to the music with me.... cooking with me and engaging me in a relaxed manner that does inspire energetic happiness for me.  I have waves of creativity.  I have waves of worry.  I'm trying to figure out how to find my level and spend more and more time there.

I guess I don't expect you guys to read everything I write here... esp the long stuff I've written as touchstone to myself. Bless you for attempting and thank you for your concern.

Duly noted.  I hear you.

Lighter

I'm OK. 

Hopalong

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #696 on: August 29, 2021, 12:14:18 PM »
I was worried too, Lighter.
So much anxiety was upwelling and surging that it felt a bit scary.

I'm glad it's just free-association in a safe journal space for you.

You are going very very fast in many directions, but as long as
you are able to connect with yourself too (as you do so intensely
with others), at a peaceful inner place...you won't get flung off the ride.

Stay well, and when you lose your balance, know that wobbling guides
us back to gravity.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

sKePTiKal

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #697 on: August 29, 2021, 01:21:53 PM »
Lighter - Holly's brain does what your's is doing in those long posts. It comes in cycles - right now she's not THAT full of similar stuff. She says she's intentionally trying to slow down & simplify. She finds she has deeper, better insights without so much frantic clutter in her head & feelings. The nightmares lessen; the sleep paralysis goes into remission.

If I may be blunt? I'll try to be brief & succinct (ha!) too. If you ain't ready - just click away now. I don't mind.





--------------------
You seem to be guilty of "productive procrastination" - this quirk in behavior seems to have gotten more attention since Covid, but it's always been around. You are creatively overloading your to-do list to avoid facing something or sitting with your own truths. Accepting some of them. It's OK, as long as you are aware you're doing so - and perhaps know what you're avoiding and why; making plans to begin dealing with it and putting it on the list too.

You seem to worry about friends and acquaintances at a microscopic level of intimacy that perhaps doesn't exist except in your own thoughts? So, question: how is this helping your friend(s)? Do you genuinely want to step up and take responsibility in this fashion -- or set a boundary about how much time/energy you're spending on people who are "not Lighter"?

Do those people expect others to worry about them in that fashion - or just you, because you've already demonstrated your willingness to don the cape and put them or their lives in order? (You can still CARE to your heart's content without doing all the extra, ya know.)

As for the invocation of your own past life reflected in theirs, yeah. The past comes up; from time to time. Once upon a time you, I, others - have mined a lot of treasure out of our pasts. But at this point in the process, is it really worth the time/energy to make sure we didn't miss some little thing? True, we don't know the value of what we haven't looked for yet... but there isn't any guarantee there's anything left to find, without making it our life's purpose.

I find myself more sitting with those lessons (treasure) already discovered. Just honoring the moment in time in all it's infamous glory -- without reliving it, without asking the same questions AGAIN (and getting the same old answers) -- and then just letting them go and turning my face to the green grass and blue sky. None of us know how long we have to live in the NOW. It works for me to stop trying to pick flies out of pepper and make the attempt to LIVE LIFE now, going forward... sans having to have every detail of where I've been, how I reacted, what I overcame, the natural molding of me (steps 1 thru infinity) of the 64 years I've been in this realm of existence.... mapped out into some cause & effect chart of explanatory autobiography.

But THAT'S ME; and what works for me. And I only suggest you might just stop for a few days - a week? - and devote that time to an objective analysis of what you've been expressing. The world won't come to a complete standstill or collapse if you take time off for YOU. Eat, sleep, pet the moss, identify (safely) edible mushrooms... and ask yourself what you really want, now that you're at the precipice of the girls embarking on their own lives & challenges. What is in Lighter's secretest, happiest space of being, that you have been too busy putting feet in front of each other to explore, do & be?

Be well, dear. Take care of ALL of you.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2021, 01:25:26 PM by sKePTiKal »
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #698 on: August 29, 2021, 02:25:16 PM »
As I plan out closets..... I realize I'm re solving problems I solved months ago....what mattresses go on the fold away beds, etc.  What bedding's been sorted and now lives in piles on racks under tarps so I have no visual reference when it crosses my mind and so it goes.

There are 2 other issues I've noticed.  Sometimes I slip back into working to the beat of other people's agendas, or what I perceive to be their agendas.  That's a terrible way to work.... no serenity there.  No joy.  I'm learning to go back to myself and find the zone again and again.  Just noticing it happen. 

The second thing is WHY I'm putting all the time and effort into this house and it breaks down into 2 parts.
1.  I'm going through the process I learned at the Portfolio Center..... brain storm for hours (to get all the "stupid" ideas out of my head.)  Select the best of them.  Continue researching and pushing the ideas forward till there's a clear winner, or two, then push those forward, for as many hours as it takes to get to the highest possible version of the project... in this case, while spending the least amount of money I can manage.  It's a process leading to good outcomes, IME.  Sure, I could go to work, but being available for the girls, getting DD19 in a healthier mental and physical space is a priority that won't last forever. There will be a time to go and do and focus on what's mine exclusively, bc adult kids will be focused on what's theirs.

2.  The WHY of the decision to take this on.... is..... partially to do witih the fact I was spending time here every week for other easons.
 I found a really great contractor I work well with.  My sister and I had bought and delivered large items so the projects could roll along at a good clip without rushing around spending retail in a pinch to keep the ball rolling.  Things were perched to begin and progress and it's been tremendously sastisfying to be a part of.

 Creating lovely, good smelling space, for myself and family/children is....... feels..... really necessary, which isn't to say it's healthy and necessary, in my experience.  I'm pretty sure it's not reactivity or compulsivity. 

I haven't thought about the tiny home fabrication business lately.  I still think it would be a possibility with the Contractor and his 2 sons who weld.  Seems well matched and neither of us are greedy or sneaksy people.  We want the other to be OK, treated fairly.  I don't see any reason not to put time into researching that opportunity.  Time and effort will tell. 

I'm cool with working on this house, just as I was with the island cottage, bc I'm the one in the best position to do so.  I like doing it.  I'm good at it. It's part my responsibility and if not me... who? 

I can put systems in place to get more organized, though it's likely I need help doing that, bc..... I usually make things much worse, not better, with my larger efforts at it. 

And that's OK.  Oldest DD has stepped up with her logical brain and pitched in more and more. 

I work on acceptance, remembering I need ONLY my approval..... releasing judgment and expectation...... embracing curiosity..... and it's daily.....hourly.  Being kind to myself, without fail. 

Noticing when I've strayed off the path and steering back on..... just getting back to it while remembering it all.... and some is easier than others. Some I forget.... just poof.  Lots to balance and keep in focus.

Learning to bounce up and over everything...to rise above consistently without grabbing on to anything,but joyful engagement.... learning to bouce back into  better habits..... is just the way things are right now.  Not bad or good, just the general state of things for me. 

And then I remember...... I want to put more energy into cultivating a closer bond with my brother and his children.... as I can.  There are other things, of course, but it's all the same, isn't it?  Learning to strike a balance until it's the new default setting.  Getting back to it when I wonder off the trail.  The grass is green, the sky is blue.... I wonder onto and off the trail.  Everyone does.  It's OK.

The energy I put into installing and building new pathways is energy well spent. Always.

It gets easier to get my nose off the pebbles.  Instead of going round and round, thinking about a particular problem.... I realize it's just another COW.... crisis of the week.  It doesn't matter what the COW is.

I'm at the point where I'm finally getting enough distance I can spot the COW, getting my nose off the pebble more quickly. It's such a relief to notice I've spotted it again, maybe more quickly.  Maybe I'll look to identify it as COW right off the bat, next time?

I could surrender to feelings of shame and frustration it's taking as much time as it will take.... it's an investment taking my attention away from other things (I used to spend alllll my time on, but now I'm on the list,  I don't.) I spent a lot of time feeling really bad about NOTgetting all this immediately and without practice.

I'll remind myself now......
it takes as much time as it takes and it's OK, whatever it takes.

:: going to tackle a cleaning project, bc it's important TO ME, right now::.

Lighter






lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #699 on: August 29, 2021, 05:19:12 PM »
Amber:

Thank you for your thoughtful respose.  Truly.

I keep coming back to the meat of things.

Noticing when I'm in my own way.
Managing to move myself out of my way without too much trouble finding the thread again.  Sometimes it's harder than others.  It's not the particular pebble or COW that's the problem. It's the way I perceive it..... how well I stick to new habits, under duress or how long it takes to remember them. 

Lord, some pebbles are so very shiny and mesmerizing, they are!

Getting back to center more quickly is a measure of subsiding reactivity, IME.  I'm getting better at remembering the answers are internal.....never to be found outside myself.

 It;s about coming back home, to myself, and finding the pebble is just another COW (crisis of the week.)  Seems simple from here, but it's not consistently evident or easy to remember,  IME. 

You give the same advice as the Nutritional REsponse Practitioner, btw.  To stop stacking my to do list..... to get back to self care for a while.

About my friends..... the relationships have been reciprocal.  There have been times I was struggling hard, as you can imagine over the years.  Both friends were there, supporting my mental health and mission.  Hard.  It's been reciprocal, complicated recently by their failing or struggling health issues as my health holds steady.

I'll have to check myself.  Are we still in reciprocal relationship?  At THIS time? After the long break?

It's reciprocal, despite Mama K losing a child, a husband, access to her accounts and normal use of her fused vertebrae.....she's like the other friend...and my Moss friend.  They're all wearing their co dependent capes, I suppose. 

While I write this my right knee has begun to throb.  It's the one with the ACL replacement.  It never hurts, normally, btw.  As I focus on it, the pain dissapears. 

Stretching and getting out..... walking with the pug is paying off.  Physical exertion doesn't put my back out recently.

About the productive procrastination...... I've come to see it as more....about my picking up my list of priorities or the imagined lists of others.  Listening to myself vs latching on to the SHOULDS.  Being lead by one or the other is the difference between energy and being in the zone and procrastination, IME, but I'll read your post a time or two again.

Thanks for getting on with what you had to say, and not faffing about.  It's appreciated.


Lighter
PS  I had to completely withdraw from mama K during my divorce  in 2008 and especially during the criminal trials.  I didn't know if I could trust her, bc ASPD was talking to her every day.  I think she was trying to broker peace, but ASPD managed to make me doubt her and then she had cancer.... and I couldn't take on anymore than I carried myself.  My cape was absolutely threadbare, truthfully.

We spoke briefly when her son committed suicide, but I veered off, bc of my own trauma.  I wasn't strong enough, again, to help her shoulder that pain, bc my codependence meant I took on the pain with her. I couldn't stand outside it and be responsive.  I was reactive and didn't understand it.  It was what it was.   It was too much to for me to shoulder.  I'm not always seeking out broken people to fix and buck up, Amber. 

When her husband died we touched base.  We began talking every 4 or 5 months, but it was never like it was pre 2006 when we spoke daily, laughed like fiends, had code words and plotted to survive our husbands emotionally and phyiscally together...... commiserated and howled at the dark humor no one else would have gotten.

We're howling at the darkness again....but also finding the light.  That wasn't possible for me a year ago.

I think, bc I'm out of the darkest (co dependent) woods.......
connection became possible again. 

I asked for forgiveness. 

Mama K had forgiven me long before I forgave myself. 





lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #700 on: August 30, 2021, 04:27:41 PM »
Putting all new habits in place isn't a quick and easy process.

I wonder why I stip back and expect it to be..... when Monks practice daily and never achieve the goal, bc.....
it's called practice for a reason.

Sometimes it feels like I'm climbing many mountains, trying to get to the top and take posession of something there....
when all along I think it's the same thing on every problematic mountain......
coming back to resting in gentle awareness...... being mindful....... after forgetting..... not judging...... going back to what restores serenity.  Then again.  And Again.  Avoiding the rabbit holes....n oticing when IN a rabbit hole.  Releasing the rabbit hole and embracing the new tools, yet again. 

It's the same thing on every mountain top, if only I can stop latching on to the pebbles and forgetting there's a field with rocks and boulders, flowers and mountains.  The pebbles are ON the mountains... in the fields......
where I put my nose is what I should be focused on.  So many creative places for pebbles to perch and get lodged.... sometimes where they are is interesting too.  Just have to remember to find the spaciousness and perspective around them. 

The pebbles and fields and mountains will take care of themselves if I mind where I put my nose and don't put my nose. 

Things get very simple when the confusion around a pebble is dispelled.  Sometimes it has to be dispelled again and again.....and then again..... darn pebbles. 

Frustration slows the process.

And what you're talking about in your post, Amber...... is right and true, I think..... complicated by better habits mindfully leveraged into place, then sliding out without notice.   Or maybe NOT confusing.   SEems to go in and out of focus, on top of sliding around, in and out of place..... different cows and mountains and pebbles and the grass is green....the sky is blue.

Latching onto things outside ourselves...... to feel better...... is just a flag, IME.  Red flags have something to say too if only one can pay attention, listen to what's behind it, apply the tools and get on with it.

Perspective....POV...... spaciousness around the mountains and pebbles and trees and lakes allows us to SEE expanded choice.  And that's a practice.  It takes practice.It's never accomplished... it's always going on or not going on.  One returns to the pracice, hopefully without too much faffing about, or feeling shame for faffing if one faffs. 

::uncrossing eyes::.

Seeking and avoidance behaviors...... the human state. 

So simple in theory, but changing habits and keeping them lined up so they're visible and make sense... can be deployed handily instead of old default patterns is......
about......
practice.

That I'm one of those people who have to SEE things to remember they're there.... ADD stuff...... other things, maybe.... I wonder how that impacts my ability to apply new tools consistently.  Feeling better always leads to forgetting, to a degree...slipping then remembering and working back to center...... again.

And for shits and giggles I'm writing out the moving parts, bc some part of me is driven to..... so here it goes....
dropping judgment, picking up curiosity, employing gobs of never ending self compassion and asking the tough stuff what it has to say, then observing without expectation.....dropping all expectation...... the grass is green. The sky is blue.

Whew...nothing difficult about those things,nope nope nope.

Lighter


lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #701 on: August 30, 2021, 04:38:41 PM »
I'm curious about taking on the kitchen cabinet project at the lake.

Taking the time to plan out designs,  distressing them, making the tools to distress them...... has the benefit of feeeeeling amazing bc creating beautiful distressed pieces feels like creating sacred things and brings me joy to touch and look at them.  My stomach flips when I look at pictures of beautiful wood pieces.  I've never tackled a job like this outside a professional shop where I did the distressing and the cabinet makers applied the finishes and top coats.  I've tackled smaller projects. 

Am I doing that to take my mind off other things?  Maybe.  Sometimes.... and definitely YES.  Sometimes, but not always.

Here's where judgment can pop up, IME...... creating unessesary confusion instead of seeing what's really there. Judgment slows the practice and one can always go back to the practice without stepping too far off the path.

Lighter


sKePTiKal

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #702 on: August 31, 2021, 09:14:54 AM »
Your distressed cabinet project sounds like my sewing "light bulb", Lighter. It just sounds like FUN. Even tho it is work, too. That's not avoiding other things, necessarily. Needs to be done; just putting your twist on it, right? Extra attention to detail.

Why can't we just go through life doin what we want to do today - without brain engaging in judgement, criticism of decisions, or any other kind of analysis? Sure, there are things we "have to" do... to live. Pay bills, do the dishes, etc. But who said they all had to get done BEFORE anything else (Fun) did? Only a few things have an absolute drop-dead "complete by" deadline - and sometimes not even then, if you're willing to accept the consequences of doing something late. (I probably won't do that with renewing my driver's license. But you know what I mean. There's even a process of extension for filing taxes.)

My point (I guess) is that life is about so much more than "work". Doing for others. Yes, I'm the poster-girl for both those things. Even when the work is something you love and are passionate about, enjoy - there are yet other experiences out there to be tasted, too. I seriously refuse to go sky-diving, but I could see learning to scuba dive... in open spaces, very clear water. 10 years ago, I would've laughed myself silly at the idea I could effectively wield a bobcat or a backhoe... but the bobcat is fun; and I'm looking forward to bigger equipment too.

I didn't know what I didn't know - about what I might like until I tried it. I think I too closely drew the edges of my "comfort zone" - and yet, there is still something of the young woman who liked to go fast on motorcycles, and was good at it. Who'd approach a horse in a pasture and jump up bareback with no bridle either... and ride. Who discovered the meaning of "play" again... through push-hands.

Beyond the recovery from trauma... learning new life skills for better balance... there is getting to know, appreciate, be astounded by, proud of, sometimes disappointed by, our spirit. Our self. And it can't be done via the head-centered, intellectual approach. Too much possibility for being misled. There are a LOT of surprises on that journey. Like one doesn't lose the ability to apply that stringent intellectual discipline. But it's not only, not needed ALL the time - it's an obstacle in itself, at some times.

It helps a lot to learn to be comfortable without that intellectual "support" structure actively running all the time. And I'm nowhere close to mastering it - but I am seeing some useful positives in it. (What I'm talking about is different from "the zone".)
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Hopalong

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #703 on: August 31, 2021, 09:57:19 AM »
Hear, hear, Amber:

Quote
...it can't be done via the head-centered, intellectual approach. Too much possibility for being misled. There are a LOT of surprises on that journey. Like one doesn't lose the ability to apply that stringent intellectual discipline. But it's not only, not needed ALL the time - it's an obstacle in itself, at some times.

I spend decades busybusybusy mostly above the collarbone. Only now am I getting more in touch with the ineffable spirit. Earlier, the moment that amazed me most was deep in hypnosis when I encountered a sense of my life force, a deep and beautiful instinct to thrive (when I was quitting the cigs). All centered in enormous inner peace during an inner trance-state "visit" to a mountain glen. That amazed and comforted me.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

sKePTiKal

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #704 on: September 01, 2021, 11:56:58 AM »
I had to learn that the hard way - par for the course, for me. I kept trying to think my way to solutions - but when I stopped doing that long enough to ask spirit what my hopes for outcome was; what my emotional self wanted - solutions appeared. It wasn't risky, boundary-stomping, or ego-driven... those choices had to be made emotionally, then the brain could go to work to execute and everything goes smoothly. No ruffled feathers or bruised toes anywhere.

It's kinda like "doing from a different place". It's akin to a tai chi principle: to move from spirit not physical strength; chi not Li (IIRC; it might be Yi.)
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.