Mindfulness and codependence thread

[lighter]

Hops:

If you could go back and start over.... what would yu change about the situation with the mean bully church guy?

Did you miss red flags?  Were there flags you made excuses for?

Did you give this fellow the benefit of the doubt too many times?

I love the poetry passion project you're sharing with others.  I love how much joy it brings you, lovely poet!

Amber:  It makes no sense that people would continue insisting B do work for them when A.  The tools are out of the State now and B. B is heading into surgery... what's wrong with people?

Is B staying in contact for some reason with these people?

[Hopalong]

Thanks for asking me these, Lighter -- you help me think, and honestly.

If you could go back and start over.... what would yu change about the situation with the mean bully church guy?
--I'd be wary that my eagerness to participate and make new friends could lead me into prematurely trusting someone.
--I wouldn't call him a bully. Just a totally fixated-on-his-project person who in a pretty amazing way, literally couldn't (wouldn't? dunno) hear me when I said: NO.

Did you miss red flags?  Were there flags you made excuses for?
--Mainly the classic one: he was charming, very warm, and charismatic. He made me feel soooo welcome. (By "classic" I mean N-behavior, a kind of love-bombing, but I dunno if narcissism is the right explanation for his thing. It's just a way of being approached that I should always be wary about with anyone, M or F.)

Did you give this fellow the benefit of the doubt too many times?
--I'm not sure. Lots of factors may have left me off guard, including his age/health and his couple years of service with that group, of which I was a pretty new member. I gave him respect because he led it well and the people were so lovely.

When it REALLY woke me up, and that was sudden but also extremely clear...was when he demanded that I arrange a tech-way of being on call to him all the time. It began to dawn on me that this man was SO focused on his own grand project that he was treating me like an underling...and this isn't customary in cooperative community VOLUNTEER stuff. I wasn't his employee or assistant!

Then it sank all the way in, when he literally ignored my NO. Multiple times.

Hopefully I'll speed up my reaction time when I face a similar situation, but I can say I feel pretty good about having said NO several times this year, to people or situations that assumed too much (without asking) or pushed me too hard.

Turns out a faith (in my case, agnostic) community is like any other -- strong personalities rise, ego issues muddle things, and Ns do like the spotlight. All that said, it's still the best community I've got, and good things happen there too. Very good things. A lot of members are doing things in the city/county that are very admirable, in my book: environment, racial justice, women's rights, voting stuff, etc. So I am still glad it's my people-home.

hugs
Hops

[lighter]

I'm glad you have that community and fellowship, Hops.

I have to admit.... I have a secret small hope that someday, when faced with an ignored NO again,  you'll have the magic ability to use the words....

"fok off" without hesitation or change in biochemsitry.... just say it be done and off to what comes next without another thought.  Maybe even say them with a whistful chuckle.... just NO emotional reactivity AT ALL. 

Maybe, bc you're poet Hops, those words won't be that, exactly, but something more flowery, but send the message you won't be igored. You're an imovable force, with agency and the ability to wield it without hesitation.

I think poeple take a mile if one sends the message we're good with giving inches, Hops.  THAT can be addressed.   It's better to resist judging, so good on you for resisting the word "bully"..... I'll resist too.

 If we hold that first inch of a boundary.... we likely don';t have to worry about the mile, me'thinks.  Then, perhaps, the word bully won't even ross our minds.... much; )

::nodding::

Lighter

[sKePTiKal]

Oh my goodness. Hops you did good. Yeah sometimes it takes a bit before any of us realize what is going on. You don't have to be laser focused on that. Just be YOU. And when it's uncomfortable - just say NO and mean it. And then take Lighter's advice, and don't mull over it at all. YOU decided. YOU said - in whatever way makes sense to you - you aren't going to deal with this crap any more, and you can't be moved from your decision. DOESN'T MATTER what they feel, no matter how you said it.

NOT YOUR PROBLEM.

Do what you want under the conditions you'll accept. You've already EARNED and DESERVE that, HOPS.

Heh-heh, I said so.   

[sKePTiKal]

There mighta been some cognac in my coffee tonight.   

I'm celebrating. He's pain-free right now.

[lighter]

Whoo hoo!  Pain free is good news.  You earned that cognac, Amber.

Thanks for the update.  When do you head home?

Lighter

[Hopalong]

O
M
G

That brings tears to my eyes, Amber. I can imagine new lightness and wonder or peace on B's face, the shocking sensation of not being gnawed at by an alligator or slow-feasting hyena all day long. He gets to just....be.

I'm soooo happy to hear it. Chronic pain is just a terribly heavy wet smelly blanket that blights lives. To hear he has respite now...that's soooo wonderful! I bet more sides of his personality will slowly reveal now -- discoveries. New colors. Play. How is he reacting?

This would never have happened without your steady, determined advocacy and support for B. Cheers to YOU!

Lighter, and Amber -- thanks for hearing out my highjack. I do feel I'm doing it better. It did feel good. The guy's unwell and I did a determined job of extricating myself. Took quite a few statements to get through to him, but I did. Feel good about it.

Ironically, my neighbor visited yesterday and I'd forgotten that he'd been her professor in another city years ago. She said she wasn't surprised and had never felt at ease around him, even decades back. HUH! Since she's not in my church community I could tell her the saga and she got it. Every nuance. One thing she pointed out was the "professor" part. I'm seeing a side of that more often now, especially since M, that I never saw an iota of in my own father. In some men my age, the ivory tower must've been built with an ego-polishing mechanism that rubbed them so sweetly every time they went up and down a staircase. So that's a profession I'll be more alert about, much as I'd like to meet a well-educated man.

Pretty simple, really. "NO." Means NO. Take notice. The first time they don't/won't "hear" you...decide then and there you'll either do/say something that brings them to full attention (a poetic F-u maybe?) OR just back away. Amazing how to many men, NO means: "Ooooo, what delightful resistance! I LIKE this game!"

Yuckspitblechhhgagbarf. This short piece is WORTH listening to, for the twist at the end. ENJOY!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pH7EzsFqQ-s

big hugs
Hops

[lighter]

Oh..... love and marriage,
 I REMEMBER YOU!!!

Whiny men, accusing me of doing what they're doing WHILE denying it when I call them out.

Controlling requests, beginning with small asks, building to relentless demands for my very sanity and physiacal safety.

And I SEE where allowing that first inch to be taken from me......
is my doing.  I DID that. I don't have to do it anymore. I can keep myself safe.  I know that now.

Idiot compassion had a place in my life.... I think it was the case with my Maternal Grandmother..... my niece does the same thing, I've noticed.  We discuss it and are aware of it.... are dealing with it. Working on it. 

What sweet relief to TRUST I'll remove myself immediately when I'm ignored or disrespected or bullied......
any foolishness can be just that.... foolishness and nothing to do with me.

Ya.

Lighter

[Hopalong]

Can you say more about "idiot compassion", Lighter?

I know you ARE compassionate, but also know you're getting at something core.

hugs
Hops

[lighter]

I guess my definition would be extending compassion beyond reason and safety....bc of some unconscous belief I have around the tabu of being selfish or ungenerous, etc.

[Hopalong]

GOT it. Makes perfect sense.

I think, in the "faith community" context, I figured out how to do it with the Nguy. Just tell him, without yielding, that I still would love as a fellow congregant, but from a distance and across differences. That covenantal bonds sometimes have to be more stretchy and spacious in ordere not to break.

If he ever gets it isn't my concern, it's his.

So we're in the same community and he, imo as a human being who is deluded and lacking insight into how he ticks, he still deserves compassion. Not iditotically, but from a distance and with very firm boundaries that will protect me from his unawareness.

If he were a younger or strong man, I'd even have fear. I did detect a confused mix of attraction and malice in some of the stuff he sent me. But as old and unwell as he is, and not my employer, not my....anything....he really has no power to harm me unless I let him.

I ain't.

Whew, soooo good to unpick all this.

hugs
Hops

[lighter]

Hey, Hops:

I haven't been able to muster a response to your post. 

The idea of so many women sitting in varying degrees of discomfort or distress or fear with men who've displayed that familiar mixture of atraction and malice..... makes me feel a little bit sick.

I'll end it there for now, bc I haven't found the right words yet.

Lighter

[lighter]

I had a really good discussion with my brother yesterday.  That's a really good jumping off point for pulliing in the same direction, together! 

On an even happier note, my harm seems to have healed up completely..... at least I didn't feel any hinks or tweeks while I put it through it's paces.... lifting, pushing and pulling all the tools out of the basementing, large heavy mirrors and art, big light fixtures and I'm just pleased as punch while remaing respectful of all my parts and keeping them healthy.

I opened up all the blinds and decided changing out the front door with a full lite door would help brighten up the space, which is large and has windows on 3 sides.  Also, there's a big window with stained glass that would benefit from removing the stained glass to clear..... lots of light would come in that way.

The front door already has side lites so ther'es that. 

More birds are nesting on the front porch. The 5 baby birds on the light fixture flew away long ago.  Maybe we'll have new babies soon.

Lighter

[Hopalong]

That's a lot of good news, Lighter!
Better connection with your bro. Woo HOO.
Arm working well again (I'm speechless).
Beautiful lighting (natural) for the lake place.
Baby birds. The best.

Thanks for letting me tell the church guy saga here.
I finally caved and told (in confidence) the tale to the
pres., a woman I like and trust a lot. She was perfect.
Understood, expressed regret I'd gone though that kind
of harrassment (I hadn't recognized it as quite that) and
will going forward keep an eye out for his potential to
harm or confuse his group. That felt like a big "release
it in peace" kind of moment for me. Whew.

hugs
Hops

[lighter]

Aw, Hops.  Telling isn't easy or comfortable... ever, IME, but it's DOING something.

Silence is the place where the harrassment... whatever you want to call it.... thrives, IME.

The pres might not do anything.  Heck, she might actually cover for and enable the guy, but you stood up and did the tough thing.

That's a good place to release it in peace..... I'm glad you can.

Lighter