Tuppp's 'On The Move' Thread :)

[sKePTiKal]

Bingo Hops.

Yes, that instinct - IMO - is one of the ways we can learn what makes us happy. (which is a whole 'nother topic for another day) Unless we gravitate to something - it's attractive to us - it's never going to "fill the bill" of contributing to our well-being. It's merely an accomodation; a compromise; eventually we tire of it.

Goes back to what I said on Lighter's co-dependence thread: there's always time (and reason too) to put yourself FIRST. And I think we always "know" - because we just "feel" that something is "right". Gut instinct.

Tupp: I heard your longing for "belonging" echo over here too. I have taken a lot of crap about how "selfish" and "limiting" my hermiting myself away on this property was/is. The theory goes something like: aren't you happy to share the wonders/pleasure of this place with other people? Well, yes, in a non-regular fashion. The occasional gathering of people here is enjoyable to me; for a limited amount of time. But the whole PURPOSE behind what I doing, with intentional isolation (which is supposed to be a terrible sin against ourselves) was learning to belong to ME.

Right or wrong; maybe even dangerous... my lack of "belonging" I suspected, was wrapped up in feeling like I didn't belong to ME. My time, attention, money & energy "belonged" to other people... caretaking, entertaining, guiding through tough times, and just plain R&R. That was my relationship style. So, I never really took care of myself - when I started therapy I didn't even know what I needed or wanted. I didn't have a vocabulary (an emotional one) for that. It wasn't how I was taught the world & reality was. And I was oh, sooooo goooood, at putting other people first. Very well trained.

Being alone; not seeing people for days and only communicating online or on the phone (irregularly) gave me a chance to belong to me. For the first time in my life. I so needed that; and I'm not done yet either. But of course, other people don't understand and swoop in to "rescue me" from what they perceive as an unfulfilling, tedious, awful choice of being alone. So, my work to understand myself - belong to my SELF - at a deeper level was interrupted and once again those neuro-habitrails of putting myself and my wants & needs last woke up and started operating again. I kind of realized it when I was getting upset, irritated and resentful again. And went to work on boundaries immediately.

It's helping; but not as much as being alone again. LOL......
disclaimer: I don't ever recommend the stuff & methods I do for me, to anyone else. Your results may vary dramatically.

But belonging to me, helps me be stronger in my self - when I am in that situation that triggers the old reflex again. I can see a marked difference between before & after. I didn't get completely sucked in - unwittingly - this time. And with a day's peace & quiet... now know what was going on; and can finally put it into words. It's getting easier and I'm getting better at it; still miles to go (IMO).

[Hopalong]

Amber,
I think you're responding here to what I just posted to you on the Mindfulness & Codependence thread, right?

Very confusing to have posts move (I've done it myself, busted!) but it doesn't really matter. This beautiful board is one big flow of growth and process and articulation. It's awesome.

It's SO good to read your non-defensive embrace of your own nature and need for solitude.

Me, too. (In my case: Introverted extrovert. Was so amazed to discover that's a thing.)

Hugs
Hops

PS  Let's talk about this more on Farm Life or wherever you think it fits, since this is Tupp's On the Move thread.

[lighter]

Sorry, Hops, I did move a post from Tupp's thread to MINDFULNESS THREAD so Tupp has head space for her OT.

Lighter

[Hopalong]

No worries, Light!
I'm just a confusedetarian...not fussed.

Hugs
Hops

[Twoapenny]

I hear you, Tupp.
My heart sank when I first began to hear your descriptions of the mold, damp, dirt, cramped space, etc. Your nobility in combating despair there has been just incredible. Valiant and moving.

You WILL look back (from a well-lit, un-damp, pleasant space you've made your own, not through heroism but because it has decent bones to decorate!) on the current flat as a nadir. A touchstone.

You're pushing off from this. Whether it's six months or a year, you're not going to accept this level of discomfort or misery long-term for yourself OR your son.

I'm so sorry -- but I so get it. Should I give a list of everything I've learned the hard way? It'd be longer than a novel!!

I hope you don't berate yourself AT ALL, not even a TINY BIT...for a belated realization about the place. You had your priority, your boy, and you gave it everything you have. What is beautiful is how fertile you are for realization and learning and awakening and developing and internalizing and knitting together the pieces of knowledge you really do acquire, that are real and mature and reliable and valuable and awesome.

YOU are awesome.

So while you cuddle up to self care today, I hope you are feeling self-respect stream in the window. It's there and you deserve to feel it.

Love
Hops

Hops, thank you, and do you know what I realised from reading your post?  Is that I do need to look at what I've done from that point and try to focus on that, instead of focusing on what I'm still not happy about.  It was an absolute grot hole when we moved in and there's still a lot about it that I don't like but do you know what?  The front garden - very small and absolutely overgrown and a hideous mess when we moved in, is still very small but is now tidy, has some plants growing in pots I found buried in the debris in the back garden, has bird feeders out so we get some lovely birds now and we get two friendly cats who come to visit (probably to try to catch the birds, in fairness, but they're cute and like to be petted).  So it's still not a great garden but it's better than it was.  The windows that actually had mud on them when we moved in, and net curtains that were so dirty that I took them down to wash them and they didn't change shape because they were so stiff with dirt, they just sort of lifted off the window like cardboard, are now clean windows and I've bought inexpensive net curtains in charity shops for some windows and made a really pretty net curtain out of a shawl I bought in a charity shop as well, so they look a lot nicer now.  And the whole place is like that - I've done a good job of polishing a turd, as some would say.  Lol.  It's not a great place but it's a lot better than it was and that's what I should try and focus on.  I just need to work on not accepting so little next time so that I don't have to put so much work in to just making it habitable, I can put the effort in to something else next time

In other news - we won't be going back on the housing list in our last area (where my mum lives) because in order to go on the list I have to prove I have relatives living there - which would mean me getting a letter from my mum lol - absolutely not doing that.  So that is off the list now, but was worth checking xx

[Twoapenny]

Bingo Hops.

Yes, that instinct - IMO - is one of the ways we can learn what makes us happy. (which is a whole 'nother topic for another day) Unless we gravitate to something - it's attractive to us - it's never going to "fill the bill" of contributing to our well-being. It's merely an accomodation; a compromise; eventually we tire of it.

Goes back to what I said on Lighter's co-dependence thread: there's always time (and reason too) to put yourself FIRST. And I think we always "know" - because we just "feel" that something is "right". Gut instinct.

Tupp: I heard your longing for "belonging" echo over here too. I have taken a lot of crap about how "selfish" and "limiting" my hermiting myself away on this property was/is. The theory goes something like: aren't you happy to share the wonders/pleasure of this place with other people? Well, yes, in a non-regular fashion. The occasional gathering of people here is enjoyable to me; for a limited amount of time. But the whole PURPOSE behind what I doing, with intentional isolation (which is supposed to be a terrible sin against ourselves) was learning to belong to ME.

Right or wrong; maybe even dangerous... my lack of "belonging" I suspected, was wrapped up in feeling like I didn't belong to ME. My time, attention, money & energy "belonged" to other people... caretaking, entertaining, guiding through tough times, and just plain R&R. That was my relationship style. So, I never really took care of myself - when I started therapy I didn't even know what I needed or wanted. I didn't have a vocabulary (an emotional one) for that. It wasn't how I was taught the world & reality was. And I was oh, sooooo goooood, at putting other people first. Very well trained.

Being alone; not seeing people for days and only communicating online or on the phone (irregularly) gave me a chance to belong to me. For the first time in my life. I so needed that; and I'm not done yet either. But of course, other people don't understand and swoop in to "rescue me" from what they perceive as an unfulfilling, tedious, awful choice of being alone. So, my work to understand myself - belong to my SELF - at a deeper level was interrupted and once again those neuro-habitrails of putting myself and my wants & needs last woke up and started operating again. I kind of realized it when I was getting upset, irritated and resentful again. And went to work on boundaries immediately.

It's helping; but not as much as being alone again. LOL......
disclaimer: I don't ever recommend the stuff & methods I do for me, to anyone else. Your results may vary dramatically.

But belonging to me, helps me be stronger in my self - when I am in that situation that triggers the old reflex again. I can see a marked difference between before & after. I didn't get completely sucked in - unwittingly - this time. And with a day's peace & quiet... now know what was going on; and can finally put it into words. It's getting easier and I'm getting better at it; still miles to go (IMO).

Argh, blooming hell, Skep, this bit - Right or wrong; maybe even dangerous... my lack of "belonging" I suspected, was wrapped up in feeling like I didn't belong to ME. My time, attention, money & energy "belonged" to other people... caretaking, entertaining, guiding through tough times, and just plain R&R. That was my relationship style. So, I never really took care of myself - when I started therapy I didn't even know what I needed or wanted. I didn't have a vocabulary (an emotional one) for that. It wasn't how I was taught the world & reality was. And I was oh, sooooo goooood, at putting other people first. Very well trained.


Yes, exactly, exactly that!  I have spent my entire life either morphing to be what someone else needed or wanted or disassociating to get away from things that were happening - either in a psychological way or through drink, drugs, random sex encounters and so on.  Absolutely no idea of who I was, what I wanted, or how to find it.  My solitude and isolation has been more forced upon me, I think, rather than me making a conscious decision to withdraw but it has very much shown me what I don't want now.  Certain people, places and situations just drain me completely and yes, boundaries, they need resurrecting a bit sharpish if other people breach and don't adhere to them.  And yes, being alone, and being able to want to be alone means you can say no to people, turn down invitations, focus your energy where you want to focus it, rather than where other people want you to focus it (usually in some way that benefits them, I find).  I do want to belong and find my tribe but I want to still belong to me while I do it.  I think that's what I've found so hard over the years with boundaries, because so many people vanish from my life when I put them in place.  Simply saying no to an invitation or trying to arrange something with someone in advance rather than doing it on the spur of the moment has been enough for some people not to see me again.  But what I think must be out there are enough people who have strong enough boundaries themselves not to mind when someone else sets one?  Maybe that's the key?  When we get stronger and belong more to ourselves we also need to be around other people who don't lose their own sense of self when someone tells them no? xx

[lighter]

Tupp:

I believe we send out unconscious signals to others...
"I will be easy to manipulate bc I care more about others than myself...  I have a loving nature, and don't expect much from those I love.... I will nurture people who don't nurture me back.... I will accept less than stellar treatment, and remain loyal, I will give far more than I expect in return, etc."

We attract people with N ish traits, and they benefit from our generous natures, and desire to prove we're worthy, bc someone installed the negative belief....'We're not good enough, we can BE good enough if we do for others, and give enough, etc.  Blah blah.... so sick of that underlying current in life.  Just sick.
 I don't trust myself not to repeat negative patterns.   I'm learning about those patterns,  how they were installed, and how to overcome them, but it's such a deeply installed message...there are so many layers of it, and it's pervasive in my life choices.


Because this morning's lesson seems very relevent, I'll share some of the lesson from the Codependence course I'm taking here:  I'll be commenting in blue throughout.


MY DAILYOM
ABOUT US
Home : My Courses : From Codependent to Independent : Lesson 19: You Are Good Enough
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Lesson 19: You Are Good Enough
Hopefully, by now you are realizing that if you are doing too much for someone who makes you feel it's never enough, it's time to say, "I've had enough."

MORE THAN ENOUGH:
Enough implies sufficiency. Codependents usually go above and beyond that. Many of the people taking advantage of you secretly feel guilty because you do so much for them. They know they lack the capacity and desire to care like you do. They can't reciprocate your kind of intense kindness. They tell me this in my practice. It is sad but true. You need to know it.

Your gifts may not seem "good enough" or expensive enough to them and it makes you feel bad.

When you give to someone who is selfish, they minimize how they like or don't like the gift. They secretly may feel bad you are thoughtful and they are not. They may never admit this to you.

They may be trying to relieve their guilt by projecting it onto your gift.

It is not in their nature to give thoughtful gifts. Their gifts may feel forced or thoughtless, sometimes when you receive them. Yet, you make a big fuss and react with joy when you get an obligatory or forced gift from them.

Name any gifts you have received that felt forced from others. and how you received them.

Go deeper and describe how giving backfired and you ended up going from excited giving to feeling "not good enough" when your gift was criticized or minimized.

I know it's difficult to believe that some of the negative reactions to your giving are intentionally hurtful. However, you may have given so many thankless offerings to others, it's time to keep independently emerging. No longer allow a selfish person to diverge your generosity into feeling guilty.

Would you ever do that to someone? Of course not! You would sincerely say, thank you! I will cherish your gift and for thinking of me.

Write yourself a thank you note to express your appreciation for your own generosity. It may feel ridiculous, but appreciation needs to come from within so you can give without fear of rejection.

Note to self:

Thank you, (your name) ______________ for your loving support and kindness toward yourself. You have helped me learn ______________________________________________________.

You are more than enough because_______________________________________________.

Now when I give, I don't give out because___________________________________________.

I will now think before I give to __________________________because___________________________.

Feel free to get something nice for yourself. Do it if you feel like it. Be thoughtful and generous with yourself as if you were giving a gift to someone else. You will appreciate your gift to you better than anyone else ever has. It may also feel forced but it enforces your independence.

You no longer have to prove your worthiness. The world needs more loving and giving people.

That is who you are and what you do. God is Love. Remember to always listen to higher self in connection with the Creator who put you here for a purpose.

Now it is time to listen to what you are listening to and get clarity of your gifts.

THE MUSIC AND MEDIA OF CODEPENDENCY AND INDEPENDENCE:
Many of your favorite songs, films and shows have a significant impact on your subconscious. Some are closet codependent "mantras" and express a need to be needed. The songs that say. "I live for you, baby" or "I'd die for you, baby" are themes of many of these songs.

Love is intense. Love songs are popular, but they can also be a subliminal message that keeps you believing real love is all about sacrificing everything for one person. Love addicts keep chasing this excitement. It is not meant to last. Lasting love is meant to evolve into trusting and safe relationships.

Films and TV shows can have the same themes of living and/or dying for the love of another. Even Superheroes are symbols of martyrdom. They all have a weakness, that if discovered, can destroy them. Codependents would make great superheroes, if and only if, they did not disclose their weakness from the fear of abandonment. That is difficult to do without healing, which I hope you are pursuing with all your might. You can't heal others without being healed yourself.

Name any songs, films, shows or anything in media that you enjoy that could be a codependent message in disguise.

An example of an old song is:

I want to be happy
But I won't be happy
Till I make you happy too.
Life's really worth living
When we are mirth giving
Why can't I give some to you?
(Caesar, Youmans)
Note that these lyrics ask a question of Why can't I give you mirth? It implies if you take it from me, I will get happy. It also implies the person is being rejected trying to gain love through giving.

Our brains are very attuned to hearing tones through rhyming lyrics and tunes. What we listen to can affect us significantly and subliminally. Get conscious. It will help you respond and not react to codependent messages.

Write a 2 line rhyme that helps you to remember to be independent and in a healthy loving relationship, such as:

When I give my heart to you.
I know that you'll give yours to me, too!

Music is one of the quickest ways to engage many parts of the brain. It also connects our different brainwaves to one another, causing instantaneous communication between them. That is why when we hear certain songs we immediately flash back to a significant place and time, feeling all the emotions and seeing all the memories.

Brain waves pick up subliminal messages all the time by repetition. A hertz is a frequency of one cycle per second. It is repetition that we can subconsciously feel it in every way. In brief, the brain waves are:

Beta (14-30 Hz)-Cognition. Alertness. Fight/Flight/Frozen and anxiety responses.

Alpha (18.3.9-Hz)-Relaxation, beginning of meditation, serotonin production.

Delta (.1-3.9 Hz)-Accesses subconscious. Lack of body awareness begins.

Theta (4-7.9 Hz)-Deep meditation. Trance. Creativity. Memory enhanced. REM sleep. Greater potential for change of behavior. Learning retention increased.

This explains why meditation with the proper music is such a great catalyst and catapult for change.

SOCIAL MEDIA AND CODEPENDENCY:
All of those notifications of birthdays, holidays and other markers can put a codependent mind into overdrive. It can also make you sad to see how others are enjoying their life.

Get some distance so you can see the big picture of your life from a new perspective.

A "digital detox" is good so that you can get more in touch with yourself. Live your life. You don't have to post it to live it well or live vicariously through the posts of others.

LETTING GO OF OTHER SUBLIMINAL MESSAGES:
My father, the psychiatrist I mentioned, repeatedly taught me as a child to "Act Like a Lady and Think Like a Man". Many of you got these mixed messages. My father always said "Women could never be included in the business world... that women were "missing that extra nerve" inferring women weren't nurturing, giving creatures, and we lacked the ability to care for others they way men did... with integrity, with honor, and compassion." OH MY GOD.... what an insane message to put in your dd's heads!When I got older, I had to translate this message into truth. It was really saying, being a lady meant keeping my opinions to myself. It also implied men were better thinkers than women. I also heard, "Make your own money, because men die and men leave". Though it encouraged independence, it imprinted fear. My mother said, "Women are put on this earth to serve men" and "Behind every successful man is a good woman." They were codependent making statements. I believed them at one time but with personal meditation and retraining my brain, I no longer do.  My mother's messages were often about serving men as good companions... of being honored and valued for how women look, and not burdening men with children... not staying home with the children, but instead following the husband on the road, if he traveled, as priority over children.   THIS was her message to me when I was parenting my own children.  Her messages to me when I was a child.... that my sister and I were extensions of mother's teen beauty-queen self, and we should reflect well on her always.... there was no space for our little individual hearts, and that makes me very sad.  In pictures we were always dressed like twins,very nice,  hair tightly pulled back, and arranged on our heads in beautiful little buns that look painful.... and you can see very quiet despair on our faces.  My little brother, 3 years younger, and an infanct in those photos.... he was typically screaming.  I'm told he was a huge brat when he was a child.  All that attention to what we were wearing, and how we looked.  What attention did the baby and pre schoolers receive..... what nurturing care was available to us?  Mother cared so much about how she appeared in public her preferred method of controlling us was to squeeze our wrists very hard, digging her nails into our skin..... I can picture the look on my sister's face as she cringes into silence,  her head falling to the side in pain, face grimacing, as mother's lips tightened in frustration and embarrassment she wouldn't tolerate.  It was about how she looked, not how we felt, or what age appropriate childood phases we were going through.  She was young.   She didn't know how to parent, and she didn't believe we were worthy of the very kind mother she had.... she used to say... .":My mother was the perfect mother for me.":
 WTH did that mean?  She wouldn't have been the perfect mother for us?  WHY?My mother was the golden child in her family.  Her mother thought she hung the moon, and she married the golden child in his family.  They were just out of high school.

Write down and translate any mixed messages you received like this and below them write a challenging or opposite statement.

Example: The message from your past may be, "You are your own worst enemy." Write "I am my own best friend!"

Message:_______________________________________________
Challenge:______________________________________________

Message:_______________________________________________
Challenge:______________________________________________

Now go back and cross out the original, subliminal message of your past and say the challenge out loud. It helps when you use your voice. When you express yourself mentally and verbally it changes you emotionally and internally. The external and positive results will occur in time.

A more famous psychiatrist's daughter, Anna Freud (Sigmund Freud was her father) wrote:

"I was always looking outside myself for strength and confidence. But it comes from within. It was there all the time."

Perhaps, like you and me, Anna had to grow up and see that the messages from her father that may not have been her Truth or her life's path.

******UNDUE INFLUENCE AND COERCION:******
The people in our lives we deem to be important are the ones that can place these messages in us with the greatest of ease. Beware when you take anything that anyone says to you "with love". If it causes fear or you feel coercion, it can create codependent avalanches of poor choices. Undue influence means someone had the ability to get you to do what they want without your full conscious awareness. Through listening and recognition of your codependent needs, they are able to say things that sway you from your truth and steer your life into what benefits their need or greed.

Undue influence is a form of abuse and fraud and is used in court terminology when someone has been coerced by a close bond. The offender often works at systematically isolating the person they wish to control. They do it through messages of false "love". It is insidiously complex. They can convince you to choose the manipulative friends and get rid of real ones. It can cause you to choose unhealthy partners and spouses. Wealthy people are the most common targets. Wealth and fame can be intricately isolating. Those closest to them can control them with flattery or fear of exposure. The film "Love and Mercy" was a perfect example of this.

INFLUENCE YOURSELF:
Listen to you! Seek solitude and find your personal path.  LIke Amber's choice to seek solitude to heal, and center herself: )

I have put this mantra out to you many times because your True self will keep you safe. You have to first respect yourself to love yourself and your choices. I interpret this statement to mean healthy boundaries, and honoring our intuition, and gut feelings.

If you still think you don't know how to love yourself and love others well, here is a great way to explore another tool of self-acceptance and respect.

THE IDEAL MATE LIST:
Without thinking too deeply, write down 10 bullet points of what you want in a perfect mate. Do not base it on anyone you know. Do it as if you have not met this person, yet. It doesn't matter if the points are deep or shallow, just do them quickly. Spend no longer than 5 minutes on this. Don't read past this list until it is complete.

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.


Read your list back to yourself, out loud.

Who does this remind you of for the most part?

The answer is always meant to be the same.

It is YOU! This is proof, you love you!

Be with someone like you and you will be able to know once and for all time that YOU ARE GOOD ENOUGH!


Today say: "I am no longer diverted from my Truth. I am mindful and conscious of who I spend time with, who I listen to and who I confide in and how they may influence me. True affluence comes when I listen to myself and make choices based on self-respect and self-reliance. Though I know I'm not perfect, I am more than good enough when I keep reaching to be the best I can be."


I really like this course.

Lighter

[Hopalong]

My inner librarian genes (come by biologically) are shrieking because this thread, about Tupp's moving plans, has become something completely else, which my inner librarian (who has done nothing to deserve obedience to her anxious desire for organization, because who said the board operates on the Dewey Decimal system?) is a bit discomfited by.

That said, I get it. Yay to everybody.

Probably there IS a connection between accepting a sub-par living space (unless forced to) and accepting boundary violations or neglect or abuse as normal.

And btw, Lighter, my mother wasn't cruel (no fingernail digging) but in every other respect I completely related to your story of her insecure, terrified focus on what the child LOOKS like, as a reflection on the mother. It was painful. BTDT.

The detailed neuro program stuff would be great (for my librarian) if it were consolidated in one thread, where folks could go for step-by-step training in such?

Then again, disobeying librarians is probably a sign of robust mental health.

Hugs all,
Hops

[lighter]

Hops:

I thought that shared lesson on codependence/being more than enough... kind of belonged on this thread. For Tupp. Right here and now, woof. At least, it made sense to me, but I have NO inner librarian to depend on in my head.  I wish I did.  Truly, I do. 

Same with the brain stuff... it's woven through the codependence, mindfulness, brain integration, and meditation stuff.  I will try to start another thread,  but I notice I'm hitting the same notes lately, and there's a jumble spilling out, and together.  No clear place to sort everything so I can keep up.   

Disobeying your inner librarian is my default setting....  there are rabbit holes I feel compelled to travel, and I just go without ability to sort.

I think I'll get better at pulling them apart, and explaining, as I internalize the concepts, and own them..... which is a goal not yet realized. 

I'll think about that... starting another thread, and likely get a lot out of it!  Thanks, inner librarian: )  I wish you were mine.

Lighter

[Hopalong]

Disobeying your inner librarian is my default setting....  there are rabbit holes I feel compelled to travel, and I just go without ability to sort.

Love this. Truth.

My inner librarian has a cruel streak, and is secretly Very Pleased with herself every time she has the chance to GLARE at someone, and hiss SHHHHHHHHHHHH! with scathing disapproval. She loves it when little kids freeze in their seats, after suddenly ducking. She especially loves tut-tutting and scowling at Adults Who Still Have Intact Inner Children.

How dare they? (She is verrrrry good at making folks feel shame.) So I'd say your disobeying instinct makes a great deal of sense.

BRW, she also wears a very tight bun, with her hair scraped back as though hair is sinful and a skull is really the only thing one is allowed to display to the world. Hmmm. Dunno what her mother was like, but I bet we can guess....

All to say, Big Hug.
Hops Who Just Expelled the Old Prude from the People's Library

[Hopalong]

(((Tupp))),
I love this:

I do want to belong and find my tribe but I want to still belong to me while I do it.

And these too, except that when the question marks disappear and you assert them as truths, you'll find them to be real, rather than just hopeful hypotheses:

But what I think must be out there are enough people who have strong enough boundaries themselves not to mind when someone else sets one?  Maybe that's the key?  When we get stronger and belong more to ourselves we also need to be around other people who don't lose their own sense of self when someone tells them no?

I know they're real.
Just as real as you are.

hugs
Hops

[Twoapenny]

I'm still very behind on threads, you guys post quicker than I can read Lol.  CB, I can't remember which thread you mentioned not being able to keep up on but I am exactly the same, I quite often read something, think about it a bit, come back on to reply and there's another four posts there and I lose track   Lol.  But my noticing's at the moment are:

I decided to put rest and relaxation at the top of my list.  There's no point me thinking about moving, working, looking after son or anything else if I'm too ill and worn out to do any of it.  So I decided to make the first eight hours of each day about rest and relaxation and to have two days a week that are nothing but that.  Today is the first day I've felt like I have a bit of energy - all the other days I've just vegged on the sofa.  I notice very much that as my body starts to relax, the emotions start to come out - hate, pain, frustration, boredom, loneliness etc.  That makes me want to get busy, to try to block it out.  So I've been trying very hard just to let it come, not to worry about it too much, not to see it as a bad thing or the wrong thing.  Today it is starting to feel alright.  I've reached out to a number of people I haven't seen or spoken to since we moved.  The funny thing is, they all seem pleased to hear from me and all say they are keen to see us when we visit next year.  Yet when we lived near them we hardly saw them and they've not made an effort to get in touch since we left.  Is it laziness?  Do people just not think?  Are they insecure and think they won't be welcomed?  I don't know what it is but i find it odd, but am glad I've caught up with them.  I think I just need to let go of right, wrong, this and that and just reach out when I feel like it and say no when necessary.  Maybe that's the way forward with it.

So yes, feeling more human today and less exhausted.  Need to keep that in mind - no point doing anything if I feel too ill to enjoy it.  Taking son out in a bit.  And bought a microwave!  To cut down on cooking time - going to try pizza in it later xx

[sKePTiKal]

Lot going on here.

First of all, Tupp: about finding people with strong boundaries - those people don't come with labels you can examine before choosing to be with them. BUT, I find that if one strengthens one's own boundaries, that example often will be picked up as a cue by others... and they'll feel comfortable trying the same thing. Even if just for that moment in time. Or if they have good boundaries already, they'll appreciate and respect yours - opening up a new level of "common ground".

Hops - your inner librarian is a LOT like my inner critic and looks like my nasty 3rd grade teacher. LOL.

Lighter, I found some things in what you posted about women to be - "off" - but that's definitely through the lens of seeing it applied to me. We can discuss it on the co-dependence thread so as not to derail over here. But for now, the only question I've got is whether there's a discrepency in our ages. I know I was one of the last generational cohorts to have bridged the "traditional" conditioning of female roles and the rise of feminist philosophies. I don't know how old you are. I just turned 63. Thinking age, cultural differences around the country, etc might also have some influence in those FOO environments responsible for our "upbring" - or conditioning, pick a word.

[Twoapenny]

Yes, boundaries, I think the problem I have with mine is that they need to be fluid and I find it hard to be supportive one week but then to need to say no the next.  That's something I struggle with.  Having rested for a week, I feel less tired than usual and I know this is the time when I usually start arranging to see people, listening to tales of woe on the phone, agreeing to take on unpaid work and so on.  So that is what I'm going to try and avoid doing this time, and to put my time and energy into what works for us, and to avoid getting myself to tired to function properly again.

I've been looking at live in housekeeper jobs as a possible way of getting out of the current situation.  There are some large country estates that employ live in staff, often with their own property on the estate.  There is a chance that a job like that might be an option - son would be on-site so even if I couldn't get a carer for him, I'd be around and he could even come along with me if he didn't want to sit in on his own.  Best case scenario would be that I get a carer in for him to work on his programme and/or take him out but that depends on funding so is never guaranteed.  So it might work - definitely another option to look in to.  I am liking the feeling of having options rather than feeling so trapped.

I have found a place that looks amazing - a centre that runs courses in photography, film making, radio programming, online magazines and various other things.  All things that son would be into and would really enjoy doing (they're all run for people with learning disabilities so would suit him really well).  Definitely worth looking into.  Is situated in a town that's very expensive to live in.  Need to be open to possibilities of making that happen.  Definitely feeling better than I did and more hopeful that I did.  The tiredness has so much to do with that and I'm very determined now to put my health first and focus on rest and relaxation before anything else.

[lighter]

I'm glad you're seeing more possibility, and feeling less trapped, Tupp.

Lighter