Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Farm Doin's - 2020
Hopalong:
Amber, I have a serious fear about freeloaders staying so comfortably in the new house you optimistically paid for that never mind your opinion about their need to work. Much less return your tools, respect your kitchen, or show you grace.
Have to ask it: What happens if they just won't go? Next steps?
Worry worry,
Hops
sKePTiKal:
OK... y'all have such different takes on the situation...
first of all - none of this is as HUGE-amous as you're leaping to. I'm irritated, annoyed, not sure how to address the situation in practical terms -- without making Hol feel totally unwelcome. And she HAS been dealing with a lot of swirling emotional crap... so on a hair-trigger. I'm venting. Bitching - because there are few avenues that I can see to actually DO something productive for her.
I asked for quiet; relenting on the 24/7 group therapy activity... and got it. We've spent several days (when we're together and not doing our own things) just sitting and staring at each other... everything that CAN be said, has been said... and now it's simply a matter of people deciding to "do". The quiet gave me a chance to "hear myself think" - something my Dad used to require and ask for a lot.
That gave me a chance to let another faint echo of Mike stuff to come up for a mini-anniversary... talk to Buck about it openly... and get open, understanding, and supportive feedback from him. He is easy for me to talk to. Yeah, I was still feeling a little guilty about Buck... and I absolutely don't want to proceed with that remnant tagging along. Nothing he could do about it, either. I just had to deal with it -- and required the silence and space to do so; got it. Moving onwards....
John rode shotgun with me to pick up the plow. Yesterday we worked out most of the bugs in the process and I made a few passes. Ground's still too wet; I'll do more damage plowing now than if I wait for it to dry out. Except the weather has other plans... freezing overnight temps and more rain this coming week. It IS April. And it IS early. So on to plan B... for staying busy, getting things done, and preparing for the exodus.
Hol and Steve will probably be able to move into the Hut mid-May. Contractors will still be finishing up -- and there's a garage that needs to be started too. That will finally let me clean up MY garage. Photographer came out yesterday to get progress pics. John and I have lots of time to talk one on one... and he has been making a lot of plans, picking directions for what he wants to do next, etc. Still grappling with residual FOO trauma of his own... but instead of acting out about it, he and I can talk... and it's been useful for both of us. As soon as travel restrictions lift, I think he'll be taking off for other parts of the country.
The Hol problem, is that clearly this relationship isn't cutting the mustard for her. If she wants to engage with him... it is ALWAYS ONLY what he wants to do and he doesn't even make excuses anymore - just says I don't want to do that. He seems to be almost a wilfull slob. He will leave trash within one step of the trashcan, without completing the process. Hol & I are always (and there are no exceptions) going behind him and cleaning up his messes. Where I lose it is when he borrows my tools - and then leaves them whereever to be exposed to weather and forgotten. I need a tool and spend an hour looking only to not find it. It's not ignorance - or he couldn't perform his job. And that doesn't leave many benign explanations to choose from.
Yesterday, I heard her upstairs venting out loud... about what a laundry basket was for and why all those clothes were left right outside the basket. She'd mentioned this before... and of course, they don't have a lot of space in the guest room. She's constantly returning dishes, and bringing down trash that he takes up to "be alone"... because he can't even eat a meal with the rest of us much less participate. He has no practical skills, domestically. None. Zippo. Hol did get to (sometimes) put his dishes in the sink - but his idea of washing dishes is to pass them under cold water from the faucet & put them in the drainer.
I KNOW HOW NIT-PICKY THIS SOUNDS. But it's 24/7!!!! I woke up at 4:30 am and went to investigate a noise (fortunately unarmed)... and he was setting up the 12 ft ladder to retrieve cactus plants from the ledge. Of course, I couldn't go back to sleep then. And he truly WAS trying to be as quiet as possible - but it seemed perfectly appropriate to him (he has no set routine) that since he was awake he'd do something useful... and those plants needed to be repotted.
And I know I'm not being unreasonable. But Hol continues to defend and protect him from behaving like a grown adult man. And I know what a mess this relationship is; that it's far from what she thought it would be - and actually wants; and she can't admit she picked a lemon and throw him back into the dating pool (some question if he ever left it) and try her luck again. This is the part that has me picking my words very very carefully around her. It is NOT like her... and yet there is a pattern... where she'll completely sacrifice her wants, needs, expectations... for any little amount of affection. It seems the smaller the amount of affection, and the more she has to work for it -- the more committed she is to work at it.
And yet -- it is not possible to have an open conversation with her about just these plain observations and my concern for her -- without invoking her Mama Tiger. She seems to be becoming more cognizant of the inequity she's experiencing... but then throw in the added pressure of wanting to conceive. I'm also well aware of my boundaries here, people. No way we could do this with as few tears & casualties as there've been... without me pointing out boundaries and policing them. It's been NECESSARY to take that stance at times.
Her substance abuse counselor may not be the BEST therapist in the world... but Hol absolutely needs to be seeing some impartial 3rd party for insight, guidance, and repairing her self-respect. But we just can't do that from within our relationship -- without totally risking that relationship. Of course - all that kind of thing is in limbo due to the excessive shutdowns.
But the Times they are a-changin'.
Can't... won't... say more than that now. But don't worry about me -- I'm fine. Truly. I want to "help" her... but that is a thankless job, she would resent it, I'd hurt myself in the process and I thought I'd retired from the mom job? But due to circumstances beyond everyone's control... John & I are ALL she's got. (John has some psych nursing background.)
So we're making do. Proceeding carefully, gently and slowly... and letting her say what she wants/needs. For now.
lighter:
Amber:
No advice from me today..... maybe oil down the tools left in the rain. My Grandfather used to clean and oil his tools, particularly shovels, after each use. Where I come from, there are rules to borrowing someone's tools. Returning them in better shape is number one. Returning them goes without saying.
I'm conflicted about your latest post. I don't know if everyone here is overreacting or not. I have the sense your nose is on multiple pebbles, but I honestly don't know. I'm getting a better feel for when my nose is on and when it's off.
Thanks for the update. I was wondering how you're doing.
Lighter
Hopalong:
(((((Amber)))))
I hear you that you feel folks might over-react.
I think I react to recognizing a very consistent pattern over time. It can always be analyzed or explained away but it does sound to me that Holly's problems become yours and don't improve, and that Steve is a parasite she is unwilling to stop hosting because of her own psychological problems. And lastly, I do believe that there is no Mama, anywhere, who can be in charge of fixing them. (I KNOW you know this rationally, but perhaps it's possible that reflexively, it's a different matter?)
You know how DRASTIC my experience with an adult child's mental/psychological issues has been, so I'm sure that impacts my tone of urgency for you. But I'll try to step it back a bit. I want you to be comfortable venting here as often and as much as you can!
Probably my own codependency is behind that, so it's helpful for me to think about.
Hugs and hopes,
Hops
PS And I'm sorry this was so blunt as to sound uncaring. I care about you, ((((((Miz Amber))))). And I know I can over-read or misread. Please forgive if I have. I'll stop trying to fix it so much. Hugs.
sKePTiKal:
Lighter - I will if I can find them. They went out into the woods, never to return.
Hops - no worries - I was mostly noticing that each of us responds from what our own fears/experiences are and yeah, I'm still doing that too.
Big argument last night. She was in studio; he was here - and he was screaming at her over the phone. All she wanted to have a conversation about their relationship. So he accused her of attacking him; gaslighting him; manipulation him. I fled the house for the studio, because I've lived through that kind of yelling once; a long time ago... and I couldn't stop shaking. She came up to talk to him face to face and he left.
So I spent some later hours with her, validating the fact that she isn't a bad person for having feelings and wanting to discuss her wants, needs, & dreams with him. He is always running away from her - and not engaging. That reads to me like he doesn't want a relationship at all - just a mommy to clean up after him and a hookup. John helped too; mostly by listening and quietly caring.
I drew bright boundaries for her - that whatever she ultimately decides I'll back her up 100% but that this is all her: all her decision, her show, her life. Except for her, and how she kicks herself, it's none of my business. Yeah - she has the classic - "it's all my fault", "I'm the one who's wrong" syndrome. As much as possible I'm trying to break that spell. She deserves someone who will step up and be there for her, engage with whatever she's doing, and not make himself the constant receiver of her attentions and ministrations.
This has been building; slowly dawning on her. A total repeat of the Bovie equation. Just in a different flavor.
And no, I can't get involved even though it's my house - it's her relationship.
I have no idea this morning, how this is going to turn out. And all I want is for it to be decided - however it suits her. I will say even the air seemed fresher around here after he left.
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