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Green burials

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lighter:
There's alternatives to the traditional, toxic embalmed, encased in boxes burials where the bodies and boxes don't degrade, take 50 years to liquefy tissues leaving behind mummified skin and tendons and bone.   In 80 years the bones finally break down, and I guess that's about it, but blech.  Death avoided, or it must feel that way to those who choose this for themselves.   

Not that I don't understand the people who are comforted by the traditional burial service.   I've looked into their eyes and SEEN the pain of not being allowed to have those final moments to SEE and visit with a loved on in an open casket, even though the dead loved one would have HATED being seen diminished by illness, and flattened by departure of spirit.  I don't find comfort in it, outside placing something personal in the casket, bc it's just sad... thinking of them there... all those years, alone.... dissolving and falling apart... no return to the earth.   No giving back to the world that sustained them their entire life.  It seems wrong to me.

I have in mind either being dissolved in a  pressure cooker.. wet cremation, which takes about 3 hours of heat, 70 gallons of water and a little Lyme, 8 hours total, to get to the point one may be poured down a drain, which doesn't leave anything difficult for family members to do in that process.  I find the idea of handling and disposing of a body very disturbing, esp when being held up for 6 or 8 or 15 Thousand Dollars, which is considered normal in this culture.  Just crazy. 

So... a drain.  Pouring.  Nothing for the family members to struggle and suffer over.  Better,  IMO.

Being buried in a mushroom shroud... not a mushroom cat suit, bc..... women of a certain age,  and all that.  The cost of this product is 1,500.00, plus whatever space the body is buried about 3 feet deep.  I'd choose fetal position..... hmmm... I guess you'd have to be placed in whatever position you'd want to be in, while you were pliable.  There's a link about this product below... may have to copy and paste.

There are natural fiber baskets and clean wooden boxes, sans chemicals, that break down cleanly, along with bodies wrapped in linen, sans embalming chemicals, buried in GREEN cemeteries... in forests and meadows, 3 to 4 feet deep for optimal decomposition.  The earth is being poisoned in so many ways.  Why do we continue to poison it with our insane rituals.  Oh.... right.  Profit. 

So, take a bit of my hair.... photograph my hands and feet and iris.... if you want to remember those things, or compare them to your children's someday, but don't put me on display or mumify me spend a lot of money creating trauma in your life.

I think, there should be new rituals.  If it was up to me we'd outlaw embalming chemicals, and traditional caskets and traditional burials.  It would all go green.  All of it. 

People can still put loved ones on display... on dry ice... they can still select natural fiber containers for burial.  That chioce can be a caring ritual. 

So... another choice.... burial pods.
https://www.facebook.com/CapsulaMundi/photos/a.391119180995163/2824123291028061/?type=3
 Plastic pods bodies or ashes are placed in,  made of biodegradable plastic, which breaks down as a tree, planted above, begins to take root.  The cost is about 460.00 dollars... comes in two neutral colors.  Don't think so... the idea of being IN plastic, encased... seems sweaty and suffocating.  Odd my mind goes there,  but it does.   

Give me a mushroom shroud.   http://coeio.com/coeio-story/ 
I like this one OK.

Or water cremation.  Not sure how much bone is left, to be pulverized if the family wants it, but nothing about it really bothers me. Much better than burning an entire body down, and handing the remains over the family.  Really, pretty macabre, now that I think about it. 

I really loved this quote... not sure which site I found it on, but I'll put it here.   This thread is a good place for it.  Maybe on Mindfulness and Codependence too.


  "To live in this world you must be able to do three things: to love what is mortal; to hold it against your bones knowing your own life depends on it; and, when the time comes to let it go, to let it go."
— MARY OLIVER
FROM “IN BLACKWATER WOODS”

Meh:
It's unclear if it really breaks down heavy metals, the seller's website is vague about that. The fungus is also common so it's probably already in the dirt to start with. So save your money? "Infinity mushroom" is not a scientific term. As far as I can tell she is selling conceptual art but the actual value of the mushrooms is probably $5.00 worth of rotting produce.

If it wasn't so disgusting we could probably have giant compost bins that bodies get tossed into and it would probably do the exact same thing because of all the fungus there. The dirt is full of fungus anyhow.

What if we all get embalmed with french cheese?

This is morbid stuff. I feel like I'm being insensitive to someone. In the grand scheme though I don't see how these mushrooms suits will make one iota of a difference.

She should really be calling it mold and fungus. It's probably already in your refrigerator.

Man maybe I should erase this. I'm not sure if I can talk about it.

But yeah save your money give it to your kids or a cause. Or if you want to support an MIT grad financially then buy a suit?

It is interesting though.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/iron-eating-fungus-disintegrates-rocks-acid-and-cellular-knives

Twoapenny:
Simple burials are quite common here, Lighter - willow casket, tree or plant to mark the spot - in you go.

I've donated my body to science.  Poor buggers.  I do sometimes find myself thinking when I'm eating biscuits that I should be mindful of the fat the medical students will have to cut through if they're using my corpse :)  I should try to make a bit more effort.  It's easy to arrange here; there's a database and a card you carry in your wallet.  I've opted for organ donation as well so if there's anything useful they can have that - the ultimate in recycling :)  They only take the body for medical research here if it's intact so I've covered both bases.  You can elect how long they keep the body for and then either the body is returned to your family or the medical facility has a cremation service once a month.  The ashes can be given back or scattered, whatever you wish.  I've got a mind to see if there's a way to get mine put into little capsules and if people traveling to far flung locations can take a bit of me with them and leave me in one of the places I'd love to visit but most likely won't be able to.  I like the idea of that.

I really like ashes.  My friend showed me her husbands and I always think it's so amazing that an entire human body can be put into something the size of a flower vase.  My aunty, years ago, lost her dog and her husband within a fortnight of each other.  She got their ashes back at the same time.  The dog's were returned in a beautiful casket with the dog's name on a brass plaque on top.  Her husband's were in a Tupperware box.  Go figure.

I do want to haunt people, though!  I really like the idea of being a helpful ghost and tidying up for people when they're really busy, or bringing them their keys when they can't find them.  I also like the idea of warning folk who are misbehaving, like the ghosts in Scrooge :)  I think that would be fun xx xx

Hopalong:
I like this topic. To me it's not morbid, but to some it could be -- or triggering.

I began bugging my friend who has 1000 lovely wooded acres about 20 years ago to create a green burial site. It's just a wonderful idea. But she was squicky so I dropped it.

I've just figured the least-complicated route is the best; my parents both wished direct cremation. (Straight from deathbed to funeral home-with-crematorium.) For my Dad, I stayed with him until he was cold, so peaceful just sitting with him. I was sad but comforted. Touched him for ages, and noticed that I kept putting my hand beneath his neck toward the end of the two hours I stayed with him. Later I realized that was the last place his body held warmth, because it's the brain stem, and the body protects that until the last. That was a beautiful realization to me about life and nature, and helped me another big step in acceptance of his death and letting go. Later I was touched when the director invited me to press the button on the furnace to start the fire. Dad was in a waxed cardboard box to be moved from the upstairs level to the furnace, which was in the basement with a hearse parked next to it. Didn't offend me at all, I liked the simplicity of it. And it felt like a gentle farewell. My cousin gave him a lipsticky kiss on his forehead before the box top was slid back on. Another amusing memory was a big arrow with "HEAD" next to it.) My Dad would have enjoyed all those details, curiosity was his thing as a geographer. (One more detail I'd never thought about. In the few hours since I left and came back for the cremation appointment--his skin actually turned yellow, or nearly that. That was likely related to the effects of the cancer on his body--skin changes vary. He went out looking like a beloved daffodil.)

If green burial becomes available here, that's what I'd like. Simple cloth shroud, natural setting, little marker. Back to nature in the real. If not, cremation's the simplest option, though unfortunately that uses a lot of fossil fuel. I'm also giving thought to donating my body to science as Tupp described. This relieves you/your estate of all costs for transport and cremation, and does the world good. (Ashes are returned to your executor 12-24 months to a max of 5 years later, so you can then be sprinkled or interred privately then. Memorial service can happen any time though, no need for a corpse.) For the anatomical program (for medical education, six sites in this state and they need more donors) you can donate your body only if you do NOT donate organs or tissues for transplant. I think by the time I die my whole body will be of more use than my old organs. There's a website with a few forms and explanations. You (donor) must be refrigerated within four hours of death and received by the institution at the top of the list within 48 hours. The anatomical program picks you up from the funeral home or hospital. They're not taking donors now due to Covid-19, but you can still register so the legal stuff is all ready. Leave copies with your executor and hospital so they'll know to notify the program. And leave enough for basic cremation in your will/plan, in case for some reason your body doesn't qualify then it's up to the estate to follow through.

I went to an anatomy class once when I was dating a med student. I enjoyed it and was offered the heart to hold while the group I stood with was dissecting a cadaver. Despite the students' bravado, one guy I knew stood there pale and absolutely couldn't participate--so I felt brave. I think he became a specialist in something that required no cutting.) It felt like a sacred opportunity, to see the inner anatomy of a human being and to touch this person who gave that gift.

I enjoyed this thread because I like frankness about our bodies...to me it adds acceptance and understanding about humanity. The conventional funeral indu$try is a horror show that exploits grief for greed, wastes/pollutes land and resources, etc. It's nice to know one can short-circuit all that and leave your money for positive use instead of expensive waste. IMO, nobody needs a chunk of stone or a bunch of chemicals or a casket or embalming or any of that b/s in order to be grieved for, honored or remembered. A memorial service or happy wake does that best, imo.

Likewise, though, despite being quite opinionated -- I also think it's important to be tender and respectful to the living who are grieving, so I would never judge anybody for what they need to do. I wish everyone would read The American Way of Death by Jessica Mitford (library). That started the awakening in 1964.

hugs
Hops

lighter:
I'm donating my organs.  I've kept them in good shape.  They'll maybe help some folkes out, and so donating my body to science won't do.  It looks like the family pays for transporting the body to the teaching facility, then the facility handles the cremation and expense.  Not free, but likely the lowest expense. 

My friend did this, and the students, who studied her, returned her ashes, and participated in the memorial service.  It was nice, Hops.
   

SO, back to 1/8th the carbon footprint with a wet cremation vs tradiotional cremation
 OR
mushroom shroud. 

Bean,  I guess I could use any shroud, and have my grave lined in soft mushroom spores and whatever material feeds them.  Nice idea.... as nice as a mushroom shroud,  though they're a nice light cream color and seem to be as thick as felt, which seems comforting too.  The spoors are in between the layers of . 

If people can be buried in willow boxes and bamboo baskets, at that same depth of 3 feet... then you're absolutely right.  Nothing necessary or so special in a 1500.00  shroom shroud. 

Then there's just the hole, and transporting the body to attend to... pay for... maybe digging the hole.  And this MIGHT be so very wrong... it might comfort my girls to actually dig the hole, do the math and puzzle in their heads to form it to whatever shape I've taken.  Or not.  It would be something for me TO DO, for a loved one, that would feel right and good and meaningful.  I don't like the idea of an expensive board being employed for moving me either.  Instead... give me a blanket, cradled and carried by the corners and sides, like my mother when the firemen carried her downstairs, bc she couldn't walk anymore... the day before she died.

Hops, when my mother died, I kissed her on the forehead, over and over again.  I don't know why.I needed to touch her.  Remember touching her.  I do.   Her forehead was smooth and cool.  I didn't normally kiss her in life.  We hugged.  A door was opened on the back porch, toward the lake, and my sister and I imagined her soul left that way while the Hospice nurse grabbed up all the expensive drugs, we'd just filled an order for pot pills my step father could have used.  Poor guy. 

Mom was taken right to the funeral home, for cremation, where the Pastor, or whatever he was, offered us one last visit with her.   My SF and I looked at each other... not sure what to do.. then the Rev said "It woundn't  be a good idea, though."  I didn't like him then, for sure.

About the mushrooms....the mushroom suit or shroud is a symbolic way to honor and send off loved ones, I guess.   Same as a willow basket or pod.  A grave lined in a good bit of mushroom spores and planting mix actually seems like another, equally meaningful,  option.

But then... there's the handling of the body, which family members COULD do, if the family chose to.   The family, in the Mushroom Suit video, chose to let the funeral home handle that part.  I think the daughter, a nurse, could have done it, but the mom wasn't up to it.

My girls aren't like me, in that, I don't think they'd feel comforted performing that final act.... tending to my body, the attachment.... act of embracing a final time, then letting go.  My mother and her girlfriends did the makeup and hair of another friend..  It wasn't something they dreaded.  They would have felt denied had then not been allowed to do that for her.  Of course, my mother enjoyed the traditional rituals, open caskets, and photographing the bodies.... stuff I don't.

I wonder if it would freak them out to have me decomposing near the house, or at the farm. 

::thinking hard on that...changing up the people involved::.

I don't honestly know how I feel about that.  I guess natural burial plots are more expensive bc they require more space. 

The natural green cemetery in GA, where my friend is purchasing a space, is owned and run by Cistercian Monks.  There's a monastery, and that really appeals to us both.   

::whispering happily::.

monks.

More focus on the act of caring for and honoring a body, than a funeral home's main directive of greed and money-grubbing. 



Lighter

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