Scott Peterson the ultimate N

[onlyrenting]

Hi, I was watching the Scott Peterson's Verdict for the Death Penalty, and more than once the different Lawyers on the show I was watching  called him a total N.

This is very scary and how do you know your N is dangerous. Scott lied more than once and most N's do. He never appeared to have much emotion on TV, but a Lawyer who happened by his cell talked to him and he appeared very lonley and sad. What part is Fake ? When and what makes them Snap to decide to kill.

My husband is an N, we have been married for 26 yrs and I have a 12yr old. He has never been violent but he dishes out the verbal abuse.
He has many of the symptoms and has been diagnoised as an N.

Just wanted to throw it up and see what sticks on a response.

I'm looking at the N as more people should become aware of the signs of the N. I wonder if there are different levels and how you know what level to RUN very very fast from.

[Anonymous]

My husband is an N, we have been married for 26 yrs and I have a 12yr old. He has never been violent but he dishes out the verbal abuse.

I'm looking at the N as more people should become aware of the signs of the N. I wonder if there are different levels and how you know what level to RUN very very fast from.

Run when you begin to see consisent red flags in someone new you meet. They are always there.

Run when your gut is telling you something is not right. Intuiton will always tell you true.  

And if it gets to the point of verbal abuse then it goes without saying to leave, cutting off all contact, if you are in a situation where you can. Don't be mislead-- this IS violence. It's verbal and emotional violence. No different than physical--only delivered via a different medium.  

But at the point of marriage with finances tied together and with children it's very scary and much harder to make big changes I realise.

[Ellie as guest]

I honestly believe if my Nfather could get within striking distance of me right now, he would subject a blow to kill. I live many states away and do not intend to giive him the chance. But he is so angry that I am not afraid of his tyrants anymore that he would off me. His life depends on being the total control factor for someone. I was the scapegoat. I think I ruined his life the day I said the little words "I'm not afraid of you anymore" and proved it with my continued conversation.

The point I believe that Ns could become very dangerous is when the most important part of their life - what makes life worth living - is taken away from them. For Peterson, it was not his wife that was important but women and his control over them.

For my Nfather is was the fear he could strike in me. He lavished in the thoughts of my trembling with fear in front of him.

For a past boyfriend, it was certain questions or accusations. I knew if I said certain things, I better be ready to get out of there FAST! I watched him choke a man one time with such strength that he would have killed him if another had not stepped in. It was mere words that drew this guy to this violent rage. So for this N it was his pride that was damaged and sent him into a violent tantrum.

It is other things for other Ns. If you know what would flip the switch for your N and turn them violent, don't flip the switch if you are in a situation to be in danger.

[belle]

Some early warning signs that set off my radar:

He (or she) seems to go "from zero to sixty," emotionally, and particularly regarding anger--can switch tremendous anger on and off really fast and seemingly without warning.

Punches walls or other inanimate objects, or tells stories about doing so.  Particularly if s/he seems to think that this is a normal thing to do, or that s/he was justified in doing so, or especially, if s/he gives the impression that s/he is to be commended for his/her restraint and self-control (that is, s/he REALLY wanted to hit a person, the one who was supposedly provoking him/her).

Seems incapable of being angry and remembering more positive feelings about target of anger at the same time.  More specifically; when s/he's in a rage at you, you feel as though s/he is looking at you "with the eyes of a stranger."

Seems to be under the impression that his/her jealous feelings entitle him/her to become a prosecutor/stalker/interrogator.  You feel as though you are "guilty until proven innocent."  And you feel like you're under constant parole.

S/he tells stories about manipulating or tricking other people, with no signs of guilt, maybe even glee.  S/he seems to be of the belief that everyone is a manipulator, and that everyone would lie, steal, cheat, maybe even hurt or kill, if it weren't for laws or social conventions.  At the same time, may try to draw you in as "special," the only one s/he really can be honest with.

S/he may have a terrific sense of humor (or not); but woe to the person who laughs at him/her.

S/he may have a slightly...*off* feel when dealing with or talking to or about somebody else who's in pain.  That is, unless they're really unsocialized, a lot of these people will have learned the socially correct responses ("oh, I'm sorry," whatever); but sometimes they'll say completely off-key things.  You get the impression that they know the words but not the music.  That they don't really give a damn, in other words; and if the mask slips, they might seem bored, irritated, or even sadistically amused.

S/he seems to talk about revenge an awful lot.  

And this last may not mean much by itself, but coupled with any of the others especially it'd worry me, and at least would give me pause: enjoys ultra-violent movies, sports, video games, and so on.  Particularly if s/he talks about them at great length and with great animation and relish for the gory details, sometimes oblivious to context (at the dinner table with people s/he doesn't know very well, for instance).

[onlyrenting1]

Thanks for all of your red flag views.

I have lived with my N for 26 years. I have noticed we stay married a very long time to these N's.
5 years ago my husband got hurt at work and has had multipule surgeries and due for a major back surgery in 3 weeks. this  will put him in a body cast and several months of recovery.

I have noticed his N behavior has been more extreame in the past 5 years.
I have learned so much in the short time from all the messeages from this board. I know he needs me because he will not be able to help himself in many daily activities. But I can see so many N signs now that I have been just sick that I have stayed so long.

We are planning on moving out of state and have some great plans ahead of us. Problem His Brother wants us to move near him and start plans to better our future. I'm seeing my husband throw is N behavior around and his brother is asking me why is he behaving this way.

1. My husband is making comments to his brother he doesn't like him to have contact with me. and now My 12 yr old and I are a stress to him.

2. I have been with this person for so long but understand the N is willing to abandon us at any given moment. Now that things may turn around for us its like he is willing to lie about me to his brother and cut us out.

3. His brother is aware of my recent findings about the N and is totaly on my side. He wants to help us stay together. I let him know that is brother has a problem and this is going to be difficult. My husband will likley sabatoge a better life for all of us and I dont think I can stop it.

4. I don't want his brother not to know what is going on with his brother and he wants to help us. I wish I didn't have to tell him when he e-mails me about the things his brother says to him is part of his N behavior.
I wish I could say it was all about the physical pain and he is just in a bad mood. But having this N disorder is not good but is no doubt the truth.

5. would anyone have advise....would you want to know if your sibling has a known labled Personality Disorder so you undersatand why they act the way they do.

6 would you be better to leave this person to move on and throw away a chance to move to a better life for your family. ( I have a job transfer to our corporate office 5 miles away from his brother)

thanks for your suggestions

[bludie]

Dear onlyrenting1,

Congratulations on recognizing a long-standing pattern in your relationship and looking at it for what it is. As to your question about staying or moving on, I'd ask you this:

What's in the best interest of your 12-year-old? What type of relationship does s/he have with your N-husband?

Are you up for the task of care-taking while starting your new life elsewhere and learning the ropes of a new job and/or work environment?

What would you choose if your N-husband was completely out of the picture?

My questions relate to becoming cognizant of my needs versus always putting the Ns needs first. A few weeks after ending my relationship I realized that for nearly 2 years I looked through the lens of life from only my Ns perspective rather than my own (or my 16-year-old daughter). I had been programmed and conditioned to consider his wants/desires/motivations/needs over my own.

Hope you can take time, onlyrenting1, to examine this from your and, certainly, your child's best interest rather than the perspective of your N-husband or even his brother.

Easier said than done, eh? I wish you the best in sorting it out.

[onlyrenting1]

Thanks so much blundie, I appreciate your perspectives

I've tried to spell out my sitution sorry if it's boring, I hope someone can see with a fresh prespective and help with any direction on this important  decision based on my recent discoveries of the N....

1. Since I have been reading and studing message boards here, I can't help but take a step back and look at my whole marriage. Good and BAD.

It makes me think I'm looking at a rat in a cage and observing how the rat moves around and what he does and says.
I can reconize a reaction he gives and say that is no boubt an N behavior.
I hardly talk to him durning this stage I feel like I only want to watch observe,read, and see how others are dealing with this terrible disorder.
When I see other people I wonder are they N's and please stay away.

1.The Lies that come out of nowhere.
2. Then we're all getting along great when suddenly he is pissy about something and suddenly the marriage is over.
The next day like nothing ever happened.
lets all ignore what just happen.

2. Money right now is a concern my husband has not been able to work and we are facing a major set back with his (5hr)back surgery in just a few weeks.

3. His brother wants to help us as we live in california where, if you haven't read, has recently become very expensive to live here. over night home prices have tripled.
Not able to recover from the past 5 years of him on SSI, we are not able to continue with high gas prices and living expenses.

4.My Corp. office is in Dallas and if my husband wasn't in the Picture I would still need to move.

5. My daughter at times gets angry at him because he is hypersensitive and says hurtful things to both of us. She hates to tell him things because he overreacts. Then he gets mad and doesn't understand why.

Her and I have disscussed my findings and we both are becoming less of the N supply. We decided not to tell him of the facts on his behavior until we know more about what we are dealing with. Some precautions may need to be taken and this is not the time to be tipping him off.

6.She knows I protect her and tells me she feels I protect her when Dad gets in a mood. I may let her stay with a friend or keep her busy after school.
He will often step back and say he will let me tell her things so he won't say it like a drill sargent  I tell him to pick his battles and chill out.

7. I know when his brother hears from my husband he is seeing how shattered he is. Not  able to work and his body has had to recovery from 4 and now the 5th surgery he will be in a body cast. N's hate it so much more than most people that their bodys fall apart.

8. I'm being offered a chance to get help and with my husband in his condition his brother would fly here and help me drive from CA to Dallas.

9. I just want to be honest with his brother when he ask me why is your husband saying these lies, or overreacts to his help. To my husband this would appear to him as losing control and he hates that, so he will sabatoge everyones relationships.

10. NOONE wants crippled people and I'm not able to just walk away from a better job a house and 2 cars when we get there. But if your foundation is not strong and built on sand then this will all fall apart.

11. I'm afraid with the health issuies and now finding he has Mental problems how is this a solid foundation.  However, what is worse staying here on my own where I can't afford to live or moving with a company I've been with for 6 years and being in the corp.office. along with his family helping.

12. His family helping is risky and this is his blood even after 26yr being married, look at my username ONLYRENTING.....

Thanks for your time

[Anonymous]

Onlyrenting1,
Your honesty is appreciated and I can empathize with feeling confused. You seem to be grappling with issues of emotional security vs. financial security. Ideally, this shouldn't be a mutually exclusive proposition, however you said:

But if your foundation is not strong and built on sand then this will all fall apart....I'm afraid with the health issues and now finding he has Mental problems how is this a solid foundation.

So it sounds that if even if you were financially stable, significant doubt would remain about the emotional health of your marriage. What if you went ahead with the move, got situated, and then tried to decide about the relationship? This way your N-husband would be near family and a system of support if you eventually left the marriage.

Is the cost of living that much cheaper in Dallas than California? I am considering relocation options and found this salary calculator to be useful:

http://www.homefair.com/homefair/calc/salcalc.html?type=to

With your husband's health in the balance I, too, would feel it was heartless to walk away. Though something I'd try to ask myself is would my N-partner do the same for me if roles were reversed? In other words, if you were infirm and he was the able bread winner, would he still stick around? Life and love don't necessarily add up like a balance sheet but I think this is something to consider.

The Lies that come out of nowhere. Then we're all getting along great when suddenly he is pissy about something and suddenly the marriage is over. The next day like nothing ever happened. Let's all ignore what just happened.

Lastly, can you look at how long you want to continue living like this and what type of example it sets for your daughter? I am learning that it takes courage to break away and say "no" to dysfunction. Also, the road to wellness isn't easy but is definitely worth it, I think, when everything is said and done.

Do you have a counselor, pastor or close friend you can discuss this with?

bludie

[onlyrenting1]

I dont know how to use the Quote everything copies over to my reply screen. (thank you so much bludie for your time )

Your honesty is appreciated and I can empathize with feeling confused. You seem to be grappling with issues of emotional security vs. financial security. Ideally, this shouldn't be a mutually exclusive proposition,

1. Part of who I am is to move past yesterday and deal with today.
If we're getting along today thats one step closer to tomorrow,
On bad days I know tomorrow, it will be ignored.

2. Problem I nolonger want to ignore something that I know is not sanity.
I was never sure what was because of physical pain and a classic mental dissorder. I'm looking out for our daughter and have changed my views about my whole marriage.  

So it sounds that if even if you were financially stable, significant doubt would remain about the emotional health of your marriage. What if you went ahead with the move, got situated, and then tried to decide about the relationship? This way your N-husband would be near family and a system of support if you eventually left the marriage.

1, This above quote is what is on my mind, I went to Dallas last month to check things out. I looked at the site link you gave me and I would be looking to buy, this would be a better financial choice.
And if my husband doesn't want to move then I will be going without him and will not look back.

2 My daughter would have cousins her age this would be good for her.

With your husband's health in the balance I, too, would feel it was heartless to walk away. Though something I'd try to ask myself is would my N-partner do the same for me if roles were reversed? In other words, if you were infirm and he was the able bread winner, would he still stick around? Life and love don't necessarily add up like a balance sheet but I think this is something to consider.

1 Answer he may be there for me but not like I would be for him.
All I can do is worry about what I'm doing  (who can guess when his mental condition is questionable.)

Lastly, can you look at how long you want to continue living like this and what type of example it sets for your daughter?

1 I'm reading and watching and want a future with my daughter. She knows Im struggling with whats best for all of us and may need to walk away from this marriage and move on.

2.I Know I can't live alone or expect my Husband to give Child support on SSI or him be able to survive.
under our  financial situation.
However after his surgery his ego may not allow him to have his brother help him. He will make his decision based on his needs. If he decides not to move I will be going with out him.  

3. Accroding to the calculator if you buy a home  your saving if you rent its the same.
If my husband  decides not to move his brother will still help me. (my husband would be very upset and try and have control over me and I dont know what to realy expect this is why I can't tip him off too much.
I need to keep learning what Im dealing with.

4 At that point if my Daughter and I move and he doesn't go that equals
Divorce. This means to most people you disconnect from your husbands family.
His brother has several rentals and wanted to help us both with buying a home for our future.

Do you have a counselor, pastor or close friend you can discuss this with?

1 My husband's brother is a medical doctor and we are working together on how to deal with my husband to make a sound decision on his life.

Ns hurt anyone in their path and it's only since I got back from Dallas did I realize the impact of the N on all of our lives.
If his brother is my only support at this point. If my husband and I  divorce it's uncertain about the outcome and how much support I will have with his brother.
I don't want to express too much at this time to his brother and is why I'm looking for an outside help, someone that is not close to the situation.

Thank you so much for taking the time to help out.

[Anonymous]

onlyrenting,

Here is my impression for what it's worth:

--- Your husband is very abusive and that means he forfeits his "right" to be taken care of. He didn't earn it and it is a "privilege" if you decide to stay with him. You don't have to, he broke the marriage vows with his abuse. Marriage vows do not include abuse, verbal or any other kind. When someone is abusive, the marriage is pretty much over spiritually. So it becomes nothing more than a "functional living situation."

--- Your priorities in life are your daughter (#1) and your own sanity and wellbeing (#2). Husband is not even #3, he has forfeited that privilege with his abuse. He may be #10 or further down the priority list.

--- His family will take care of him and if he resists their help, that's his issue.

--- If you divorced him, your BIL will not abandon you. Your daughter is his niece. Divorce doesn't always mean a total cut-off of all in-laws. That's a bit extreme and doesn't happen especially when there are children.

--- I'm glad you're thinking of yourself and your needs in life. This is the only life you've got, it's not a dress rehearsal as the saying goes.

bunny

[onlyrenting1]

Bunny.thanks for spending the time to reply. What you say is worth alot to me.

I dont know why but I'm having an emotional melt down about now.

I guess it sounds so easy to say I have the right to walk away when my husband has been abusive. (this makes me want to cry)

We are talking about an N.....they lie and then can be so charming where others will not see the abusive side. I need to have a plan and I just haven't gotten there yet.

Today he is being charming and helpful and a nice guy.
I know its all about how much N supply he's working on. So I don't expect it to last. Im paying very close attention on this behavior as this is the big set up...

It's like from what I have learned you need the N to leave you it will be all your fault. And thats ok.
In the next few months I will be very selective of things I say and do.  I plan on moving and if he will not go with that plan than more power to me.....

I will stay and help him but I will remind him if he gets verbal and being hurtful  if he expects me to be there for him he must earn it with being kind to his family...if that does not happen and he can't contol it then my time is up....
I'm going to start packing my stuff and preparing to move so he sees this is my plan and i'm sticking to it. I will continue to talk about it and make him know this is my road and it's one lane.
I'm changing and will learn how I can move on in a healthy way.

Please know this is helping me to sort it out.
Thx


Can you tell me where to find out how to use the quote

[Anonymous]

<<I'm going to start packing my stuff and preparing to move so he sees this is my plan and i'm sticking to it. I will continue to talk about it and make him know this is my road and it's one lane.
I'm changing and will learn how I can move on in a healthy way. >>

My feedback is not to pack in front of him. He'll try every trick in the book to persuade you out of it. It could get very ugly. Keep your plans to yourself, if only for your daughter's sake.

I think that the quote function (and bold, italics, etc.) aren't working anymore, so I created my own quote marks.

bunny

[Anonymous]

Quote function seemed to work this morning. To try it: type your sentence, highlight it, then hit the "Quote" button. It should format your text and automatically change the font.

[Onlyrenting1]

Hi Bunny, I appreciate your caution. I'm starting to get angry and frustrated that my husband is giving everyone greif for no reason.

I wanted to tell you it's not NOW I would pack my bags and leave.
I picture what I will be doing is Preparing for a move accross the country.
He already is making reasons to not move so maybe it won't be easy.

1. Start getting rid of old things in the garage, let him understand we are going to move. Have him see me preparing to look for schools for my daughter and getting transfer papers and do what people do to move.

I only want him to realize on his good day, this move is want we all decided to do. We have support from family and I have already been for a job interview. I have given my notification at work for the transfer.
I can't see changing our plans like the wind.  

I think your thoughts that his brother would not abondon us will give me confidence in moving forward.
And if my husband decides not to come he is the one that is fickle, He wants something when it works for him. Then it may appear he will not be in control.  Having his brother help him, is beyond his thinking.

We are in a sinking ship, from what I can see and the life saver is being ofered but the N is so blind...he wound rather us all drown then see the real picture.  

I tried doing the quote thing again, I will figure it out for the next time.

[Anonymous]

onlyrenting1,

I concur with your plans to move forward in a positive direction. May you find strength, courage and a sense of yourself with each box you pack and sort.

When my ex-N and I ended things, I was advised by our (now my) therapist to cut ties quickly. I knew if I didn't draw some quick and firm boundaries that he would dash in and out of our lives until good and ready to move on. And that would have wrought complete havoc during an already painful and difficult time.

My first boundary was to change the locks on the doors. Since the house was in my name and he had no intention of buying me out, I didn't want the feeling he could walk in during any time of day or night. This was my first firm boundary to cut ties and take control of my life again.

He lost it! His response was a barrage of hateful and threatening phone calls and e-mails about what a terrible person I had become and how misunderstood he was. Eventually I had to change my telephone number, block him from my e-mail and hire an attorney. I could not stop his defamation campaign as he poisoned the well with mutual friends, neighbors and business contacts. I am hoping that actions will speak for themselves and some day those folks, particularly the neighbors, will see him for what he is. If not, then no loss. They weren't worth my time in the first place.

My point is, onlyrenting1, that Ns are astonished when we begin to take control of our lives again. They're so accustomed and adept at getting their way, it freaks them out when their noose starts to unravel. So please be prepared for a lot of manipulative and guilt-laden tactics. This, of course, would include the mean-nice-mean-nice cycle. My experience shows that an N will try to lure you back by at first being nice. This ploy can be confusing because it's the side of their personality that originally made them so attractive. But if nice tactics don't work and an N finally realizes you mean business, they can become very nasty, hurtful and vengeful. Perhaps your husband's current health limitations will temper him. Just be careful and cautious and watch for signs of escalation.

Best,
bludie

PS -- how does your daughter feel about moving?