Rescuing vs. Helping vs. Enabling

[Twoapenny]

I am guilty as charged, of going to verbose lengths to say something that could've been done in a simple declarative sentence - as is Hol. I've seen her go on for 20 mins with what we affectionately call the "preamble" before getting to the point. She is also working on this.

Observing her (and vice versa) - this seems to be a pre-emptive attempt to justify/explain/consider others' reactions ahead of time - to the simple expression of the feeling or want/need. We talk about the connection of this verbal tic, to walking on eggshells around certain people. For her - past & present relationship; for me - my mom, still and a few former husbands. Less so with Mike.

The silly thing about it is, that as much as we know about each other this really isn't necessary. So I'm guilty of rolling my eyes quite a bit during her preambles. And vice versa. She'll just jump right in sometimes and state the point that I'm obviously working up to. LOLOLOL. God forbid I attempt to do that with her, however...

Gets me thinking, about the people that are soooo easy to just talk plainly with. Is it because there's no emotional risk? Or less? Or is it something limiting within ourselves - regarding the persona we're trying to project.

Yes I understand the walking on eggshells thing, and having people you can talk easily and plainly with and others you can't.  In the circles I've known I've found it's generally boiled down to whether someone thinks everything that happens is something to do with them.  For example, I've had friends in the past who I know, if I said I was too busy to do something or couldn't come over this week but how about next week, would take that very personally and it would be a problem.  And then other friends who'd say, great, no problem, see you then.  I think one kind takes any kind of 'no' as a personal rejection whereas the other just hears "not right now but soon" and doesn't see anything personal in it.  Which then tends to translate the same if you're talking about something; with one you can say "I think that sounds a bit bonkers" but with the other you'd need to phrase it much more carefully.  And maybe it's just habit that's difficult to break - as you say, with you and Hol there's no need for it but you're both used to doing it.  Maybe you need me to come over and poke you both with a stick when you go on too long   Lol

[Twoapenny]

Badass, ahem TwoaPenny,
I hear ya!

bean

Lol, I can be Badass and you can be BeanAss   Lol xx

[Twoapenny]

This is so interesting, y'all. Direct speaking having something real to do with helping or receiving a message about whether or not help is welcome.

Yay Tupp, for understanding the questions to ask. That's huge, imo. The only nuance left about those is probably just tone of voice. I find that keeping my energy low and light around asking--just asking easily--and seeing what they say in response. Thanks for the reminder about those. Plus, the one about disengaging from the rut-plowers or maybe even sharing: I'm no good for much emotional support right now, feeling at my limit myself, but I'm happy to come DO something if you need that support. Is there anything practical I can do to help?

Yay Amber, for owning your preamble rambles. I am a STAR at that and can sometimes actually see people chomping their bits for me to get to the f-ing point.

The "helping by discussion and analysis" part. Do you find you initiate that most of the time? Or does sometime come to you and ask for it, or does it maybe just happen habitually because that's your habit together?

I love it when I experience that with a friend. If it's a friend who seems to really enjoy the digging and thinking out loud, which I think has to do with trust. When my D was working on her total exit, my capacity to discuss and analyse because overtly unwelcome and I learned to just zip it. Even if I knew what I was seeing and had insight; she was over-capacity for absorbing any more wisdom from me.

These days, I realize I need to focus on helping myself. Rescuing myself, even. But I don't want to be cut off from other friends who need support. That would add fear of isolation to my present anxiety. A woman in my Covenant Group reached out to me with very painful news and I was able to sit with her and help her express her own fear and sense of anxiety about the future (it's her husband, a dire diagnosis). Yet she began backpedaling in an indirect way later, telling the Group we all have so much on our plates she doesn't want to add to it, etc. I emailed her that it is healing for me to be present for her, and hope she'll understand that I mean it.

Just because I'm struggling doesn't mean I want to be viewed as too damaged to be of use. I feared that a little bit, after sharing my ED visit with them last night.
But I'm going to try not to focus on it much.

hugs
Hops

I think it would have been a huge help to your friend to sit with her like that, Hops, and to reassure her that you get something out of helping her, too.  I'm glad you've got that group there to offer mutual support with.  And yes, re tone, I think mine is harsh sometimes - unintentionally, but I think it comes from so many years of (a) having to be very direct and clipped, almost, with son (he doesn't do nuance at all and misses loads if people are speaking in tongues, as it were) and also from having to sit through so many appointments and assessments with him where I have to try to convey information to the doctor without making it sound unpleasant in front of son.  I do sound snappy sometimes (people have mentioned it) and I do have a very bad habit of rolling my eyes which I don't even realise I'm doing (people have mentioned that as well).  I don't think I have much of a poker face!  I think sometimes I'm just too tired to think about how I'm coming across, or perhaps even that I don't want to be speaking about something at the time.  Back to direct speaking there; "I'm too tired to do this now - can we talk tomorrow?".  It's probably better than me tutting and rolling my eyes at people lol xx

[sKePTiKal]

Ah yes - there are lots of reminders here about the preamble habit. Poking with a stick would be right on par! LOL.

Hops - most of the time, it's not me that initiates discussion & analysis. There have been days, I've said - ya know, I can't do this 24/7. Can we save it for another time? And that's usually, coz someone continues to beat the same dead horse - without realizing that a simple yes/no decision will lift the dilemma or problem once and for all. Pointing that out, usually doesn't help - because for whatever reason, they're not ready to decide. You know what a trickster I believe the idea of "hope" can be sometimes.

I don't feel I have all the time in the world to sit and agonize over most decisions anymore. It's time for me to throw my over-abundant caution to the wind and make quicker decisions and get on with living, while the living is still relatively good. I DO however, end up sitting with myself overlong, to master my own resistance to things - whether emotional, situational, or just physical energy. Sometimes it's just accepting that something is completely out of my control.