NO ONE IS ADDICTED TO ANYONE

[write]

unless they choose to be.
At least in the first instance.
Don't get into it if it's in ANY way unhealthy- recovery 1.

[Portia]

Hiya write, how are you doing?

I looooove  a thread with zero replies, can’t stop myself jumping in!

Is that an addiction? Do I care? Haha!

On a serious note….do you think it’s sometimes difficult for people to know when I’m being very serious or instead using words to be playful? This is a serious question. Being the court jester or fool is a part I like to try on sometimes but I guess it might mask the intention. On the other hand, I guess it depends on the interpreter. Play is serious. There is always a serious intention in play, children know that. Anyway. Rambling. Again!

On a serious note what I was going to say was:

I know you mean partners here? - (just checking) but in isolation I saw your thread and thought hmmmmmmm……it’s not so easy when the person you’re enmeshed with is your parent or primary caregiver. Not that so many of them actually give any care.

Many of us with cruel parents become addicted (not really addicted but acting out the old repetition compulsion) to partners…..because it’s about our parents etc etc.

I think I was kind of addicted to my mother.  What a thought! Interesting idea though.

Hope you have a good day (((write)))

[write]

Hmm! You jump in P...

I was reacting I think in the healthiest way I know- caution.
To a post about someone who has a partner who beats them, calls them whore, and loads of other horrible stuff.
I read it as a 'test' post at first-
a 'what would you do if' scenario...

Then I noted the person was a senior poster and everyone was replying seriously.

It stopped me in my tracks frankly.

I even started to wonder if the whole forum was real.
So much about N-ism is...well Ns.

I can understand people worrying about Nism as abuse, or other more subtle attacks on the self.

Maybe it's me, I just got myself unbalanced as to my place in the forum if we regular posters haven't conveyed a more definite substance of what is ABUSIVE to victims of domestic violence etc.

[Hopalong]

Hi Write,
I'm losing track and want to be sure I'm following you...bear with me. Does this:

Then I noted the person was a senior poster and everyone was replying seriously.

It stopped me in my tracks frankly.

I even started to wonder if the whole forum was real.

...mean that you were stunned by realizing that a senior poster here was a person who was still being currently abused? And then you suspected the senior poster might be Freying (James Frey, author of A Million Little Pieces, who exaggerated the sordidness of his life)? If it helps, I think it's completely possible that a mature, "together" advisor here who is genuinely a huge help to others is still in the grip of an abuser. That happens a lot, doesn't it? The shame and self-esteem issues can keep otherwise-powerful women paralysed at home. But that may not have been what you were asking at all.

Help me follow, I think you're asking a signnificant question but I just didn't quite get it.

Thickly,
Hopalong   and...PS--Portia:

The rhythms in your writing tell me a lot...there's light bumpity bumpity tra la la playful, and then there's bumpity bumpity bumpiwham bumpislam, serious.   (Ask me to explain that description and I will be completely incapable.)  I just think there's a way of telling when you're light, and when you're describig real pain or shock in an ironic way, because you write in a way that invites the reader to come along and sense your mood... in all cases I enjoy reading you. Hope you've FELT understood here! Most of the time anyway...

[mum]

Write, I sent you a PM. I am no longer sure if they get through, so let me know.

[Portia]

Hi Write ((((((write)))))

I know exactly (I think!) what you mean re is the stuff real or not. I’ve struggled and really suffered in my own way with these issues in the past. I’ve actually had a day when I didn’t believe that what I saw on my own PC here at home was the same as the board on other PCs. Okay, how damn paranoid is that? How dumb and not close to reality is that? AS IF anyone would go to that kind of trouble and effort just to confuse meeeee? Am I that important? Haha. No!

I mean. Okay I went to the library and checked the board there. Hey it was the same!! What did I expect???

I told myself to get a grip on reality. Reality is weird here on the net. Invisible people and on a psych board too? Hey that’s sure to make us think right?

But wait. What if it is all real? What if these other members are all real, genuine individuals with real, genuine problems (both practical and psychological)?

I decided a while ago that the best way for me to behave and treat the board is as if it is all real.

Because if I don’t, if I spiral into thinking there’s some ulterior motives, that way lies nuttiness for me.

And: suppose everyone is real? Suppose people really are hurting that much?

It’s entirely possible.

And I wouldn’t want to be someone who doesn’t take anyone seriously, not now (I’ve done it before though).

I think, on balance, and looking at the alternatives, it’s likely that it is all real, as real as the posters themselves.

And if it isn’t, what benefit is there to be gained from treating people as though they aren’t real – what benefit for any of us?

Maybe it’s about trust. And wanting to give and take, participate and connect with others.

I am real. A real person and all my posts on this board are real stuff. It’s all true. God that makes me feel vulnerable! But so what, who cares?

Nobody on this earth is as interested in me as I am. That’s the cold truth. Nobody cares enough to play games, there’s no objective and no incentive really, that’s the way I see it.

Gosh that hit a button didn’t it? haha. You’re not alone with your thoughts write.

Thanks for your post!  :DGotta go.


Hopalong! Thanks for your words, I like them, I really do. Nice one 

[Portia]

Hey bean, your post has brought up so much for me but…..my H or OH (other half) is trying to concentrate on work right now and as we live in a tiny one-bed house…I’m having to type really quietly…which isn’t easy…haha! Oh go for it! Noooo…he needs his quiet time.

I have The Road Less Traveled too, I really enjoyed it and found it useful.

Shhh …. Haha these keys are so noisy! 

More tomorrow I think but until then: I believe that we’re all human, however screwed up and screwed around we are. And some actually have physically damaged brains, still a type of human though. Hitler was human, with a damaged brain I would imagine.

Thing is, whoever is here is a person (I think) and in real 3D (thanks October for that lovely expression) life, we meet all sorts of people. But here, we might also meet people that we might avoid in real life. They can post here just as we can. So I tend to treat everyone as real now, just in case they are.

I’ve read a lot and listened to real 3D people as well as on the board and … well, people are all strange and odd and sometimes have big problems. The guy shouting on the street to the lady who jumps in front of the train, all real.

It’s a great place and we all make it so. With Dr Grossman’s help too (thanks Dr G).

Oh I’m too loud!  Gotta go …..great post bean.   

[write]

thanks for pm/replies.

I know I am paranoid in some ways, and I also know I still haven't got straight in my head just what 'trust' is etc.

So many people I have trusted have given me cause for concern to say the least!

Thanks y'all, glad I'm not alone in my fears and worries- even the extreme ones.

[Hopalong]

I feel safe here, truly.
And a lot of that is the anonymity.
It lets me risk and trust and stick out my flaws, fears and sore spots (and ugly spots, and even my own Nspots--I have them, though I know I am not "a full-tilt N"--it's a curve thing) in an unusually open way that I might be afraid to risk with people I know well and see all the time.

I absolutely identify streaks of narcissistic thinking in myself. What's interesting is in the last few years of the first shock of finding out about Nism, processing it about mother and hub and bfs, I have in the last year or two been much more interested in identifying and owning my own bits of that behavior that I was so well trained in, when it pops out. And it does at times. Under stress, or when I am afraid.

Yet, I am beginning to love myself. So I am finding I can forgive myself for my Nspot moments. I am a good person, and I am not summed up by my weakest moments. My little spasms of attention seeking or occasional fits of entitlement. Nor is anyone else. We are not only our worst selves. And we have the capacity to direct compassion to each other at our worst and weakest, and at ourselves too.

I also know that if I were to be judged harshly somewhere here, I can choose to emotionally pull back a bit, and because there's such a rich variety of voices here...I trust that I can turn to another thread, have another dialogue for a bit.

Thanks for bringing this up, Write and Portia. I think it's a fine thing to ponder.

Hopalong

[Portia]

Hi Bean.

I finally did find that place in a mature workplace, but in my personal life, it has been tough.  I always felt mentally I was dealing with 6 year olds in my personal life

It’s been the opposite with me: personals okay (well, H is okay, he’s the only one I count as a ‘personal’, I’m not including family) but workplace full of 6 yr olds.  Now I’m scared of going back to work. Big problem for me. I really don’t like what I did and I won’t do it again so here I am, footloose and fancy free about work and not doing anything because I’m convinced the world of work is full of 6 year olds. Do you mind if I ask what area of work you’re involved in? Or - where do I find a mature workplace (that sounds so good, just the phrase, ‘mature’). It’s good to hear that such places actually exist!

Even now I'm "the adult who's always talking about things people shouldn't talk about" and finding it hard to find adults that will listen or engage me.

Yeah. I listen to BBC Radio 4 a lot and find I can argue with the worst of ‘em. Today I really wanted to have a voice on the morning programme. It seemed to me there were two ideas being discussed that directly related to each other – and nobody was putting them together. But anyway.  Adults. Mmmm. The more I hear of politicians, actually, the more psych books I read, the more I’m looking for someone to really test my head. No-one’s perfect okay, but surely the stuff I’m reading is outdated? Surely people have moved on?  I just see the same round of guru-type quick-fix self-help all-technique-and-no-substance stuff being published. It worries me. Anyway that is probably way off what you were talking about. I’ll talk about anything. It’s a new liberation for me –talking freely about important stuff - and I’m not going to stop. 


Hopalong: interesting, are you sure and do you want to expand or not etc – giving you a space here if you want it, if not no worries:

I absolutely identify streaks of narcissistic thinking in myself. What's interesting is in the last few years of the first shock of finding out about Nism, processing it about mother and hub and bfs, I have in the last year or two been much more interested in identifying and owning my own bits of that behavior that I was so well trained in, when it pops out. And it does at times. Under stress, or when I am afraid.

….because oftentimes what appears N is linked to other stuff. Feeling ‘different’ believing that ‘everyone’ is looking at us, feeling over the top happy and centre of attention, feeling a great need to be recognised and acknowledged, trying to think of more……all stuff related to 'co-dependent' behaviour etc. Not narcissism in it’s pure form (and I’d challenge what the heck I mean there). 

Um: My little spasms of attention seeking or occasional fits of entitlement.
What’s wrong with wanting attention sometimes? What’s wrong with feeling entitled sometimes? Sometimes we are entitled, aren’t we?

if I were to be judged harshly somewhere here

Ummm! If someone judges you harshly…..does that mean you have to agree with their judgement?
Other: “I think you’re X.” Harsh judgement.
Hop: “But I know I’m not X but that’s your opinion and you can keep it. It’s not my opinion.”

Just because someone thinks something about you doesn’t mean they’re correct. 

Jacmac

everything I've posted on his board has unfortunately been real
I believe so and I’m sorry that it is real. ((((Jacmac))))

[Hopalong]

Well thanks for the invite.

Um: My little spasms of attention seeking or occasional fits of entitlement

.
Actually...those are it. Maybe not as bad as I thought.

What’s wrong with wanting attention sometimes? What’s wrong with feeling entitled sometimes? Sometimes we are entitled, aren’t we?

I guess you're right. I know that as a writer, there is a desire for attention to that, because it's the full-circle thing. No point writing in a closet, etc. But giving readings, etc., those involve seeking and getting attention...and because I was so horrified about Nism when I first bumped into it, I tend to now scrutinize my need for attention very, very closely. I guess calling them Nspots is my way of saying that I do believe in ways I have internalized some aspects of my Mom's personality. I'm not saying She is Me or I am She...just that if I'm very stressed or very scared I feel anxious about whether I've got those pieces of me under control.

I know I'm not "An N." I just don't think it's possible that I haven't internalized some of it because she raised me.

And my fear of being judged is part and parcel of that...the old training from the way she interpreted religion too, a big mean old God just waiting to pounce on my badness, whatever it was. I guess I haven't fully lost that wiring either.

But on balance I'm a good person.
(I just got chewed out by the little Nboss for overlooking a payment to a contractor...I was doing 2 1/2 jobs at the time and it slipped off my radar. I had already written the guy and he wasn't bothered about it but Snarkyboss has rubbed my nose in it. He is really mean spirited. If I make a mistake, ever, it's like blood in the water. I mean...Sharkyboss.

Fortunately, although he's lost me my job ultimately (July 1 it will expire)--at least I don't report to him any more.

He scares me though. He will magnify any error and try to sabotage me permanently. He's vindictive.

Hops

[Hopalong]

How horrible, Jac, what that judge did to you.
I am sorry.

I agree, I'd rather be elsewhere...except for the very realistic fear that I won't find anything remotely as survivable as this is. Fortuantely, I no longer interact with him much and he's no longer my official supervisor...just re-triggered that whole trauma when he sabotaged me before.

I truly would rather keep this job though...the other one I report to now is way less toxic and even has his kind side. But I don't think it's going to happen. I'm working like a dervish to be sure I have an excellent reference when I do have to go.

Where...I have no idea.

Hops

[Hopalong]

Well, I support you there for sure, Jac.
If it's legal as she's reaching the end of her lease anyway, you don't have to renew, right?
And if you can afford to go without her or would have little trouble finding a new tenant, can't see any reason why not, if you give her fair and legal notice...

Sounds like a Jac-affirming decision to me!

Hops