Making amends

[Clueless]

I've had my life literally come apart at the seams over the last five years and I couldn't figure out what was wrong with me. Now I think I know - I'm an N. People always used to tell me I had trouble expressing my emotions, and I became really self-conscious about it. I've moved around a lot in my life (emigrating to a new country), and my family has been split up since I was a little kid, and my mum died when I was in my teens. I've been surrounded by strangers for a long time and I never learned how to trust anyone, least of all myself. I never really knew how to relate to people, and if I ever found myself liking someone I always found a way to withdraw. Over the last five years I've suffered from a severe depression (extreme disorientation and tiredness) and I 'lost my place' in the world. Since then I've done nothing but make a total embarassment of myself - I was so scared of my disintegration that I felt like I was haemorrhaging rage and filth as I lashed out at everyone who came near me. I'd like to make amends and I'm trying to make a start, but it's going to be a long road. I'm not proud of myself for what I've done over the years, but I thought you might like to know that even N's are capable of wanting to change for the better!

[nihil]

Hello Clueless (maybe a misnomer....?)

Have you been diagnosed as such by a mental health professional? Because sometimes we use narcissistic defense mechanisms without necessarily being afflicted with full-fledged NPD. When you have been voiceless for so long, lots of guilt, shame and self-defeating behaviour develops in your personality. This does not mean that you are an N.

This is just a hypothesis. I am no expert.

Take care.

[Clueless]

Hello nihil,

Thanks for replying! I haven't been diagnosed as NPD, but I was diagnosed as depressed five years ago. It's taken me a long time to come out of it, because I had been studying and working in yet a third country where I "became a different person". I was completely dissociative when I got back and that scared me. But I think the problem lies with me, because I can't seem to reach out to people, or to remember what they say, or to move on with my life in a normal way. I'm sure that some of my behaviour is a defense, but I'm so scared of intimacy it's not funny. I can't seem to take an interest in other people, and when i meet someone from my past and I'm with my new boyfriend for instance I seem to "have to" block out one person or the other. I can't seem to connect with the real world, or to see my actions as meaningful. I also have a horrible method of blocking people out, literally while they're a few feet away from me, trying to talk to me! I can only seem to deal with people in compartments, which sounds like alters to me! I know it's dangerous to self-diagnose, but I want to live instead of just existing like I am at the moment, and I want to be able to give to the people in my life for a change!

[nihil]

Hello again Clueless,

You seem to be able to observe your own behaviour with a certain amount of lucidity and also to be able to realize quite clearly that something is wrong. Those behaviours are not often present in people who suffer from NPD.

Depression often comes along when your emotional alarms are signalling endlessly and they are not being answered. Repression of feelings and memories, dissociation, distancing/withdrawal and narcissistic defense mechanisms can all kick in at one point or another to give you clues that something is not settled in your psyche.

I would suggest that you go see another therapist to talk about depression, try to find out maybe if something hasn't gone wrong in your childhood, or if you haven't suppressed a terrible memory. Again please, I am no expert, but I can relate to some of your symptoms and behaviours and it does definitely tell me that something is not right and that you need help to sort through all of this.

The fact that you are worried and that you are trying to find solutions means that you are on the right path. Take really good care of yourself, take all the time you need to make yourself feel better. Try avoiding situations or people who trigger negative emotions where you lose control or you lose your sense of self. Get some help. Take really good care of your-self. Post here often, read up on different subjects : NPD, emotional intelligence, voicelessness, repression, dissociation, depression, etc. You mind find clues and relate to some ideas. Listen to your emotions, they can give you a really good indication of what's wrong.

I wish you good luck.

nihil

[Ella]

Hi Clueless,
You mentioned alters. Scares the hell out of me. I discovered last year that, in my current relationship, I've had a pattern of "phasing out" for 20 minutes at a time or so. I think it's the only this relationship I've done this with, and I don't think I've done it since I discovered it (how I found out: we got in a minor argument over emails from one of his relatives, he was smoking a cigar at a restaurant and I "came back" to see he'd been smoking it for at least 20 minutes, but I had no memory - thank you for smoking!), but, how would I know!  The effect has been to dampen my spirit for a fight. I felt like I couldn't trust myself. Worse (he has to love - ok admire-  the image of me maybe?) he couldn't grasp it when I tried to explain. So to try and get any information about whether there are alters, did my voice change, did I turn into Sybil with a bad lifetime contract etc., was useless. I appreciate how it is not knowing! But honestly I think its my childhood trying to say, been here before!

[Ella]

regarding the last post - I appreciate that all of it didn't fit with where you were . I had some steam to let off and it took over. What I can say that is more relevant:  I once did a therapy technique that is aimed at bringing together fractured parts of ourselves, and it had an amazing effect on me. The idea is that trying to remember specific things takes years, and may just retraumatize the individual. So instead, you think about sensations that you feel, and then you let them talk. Sounds weird, but it worked. The only reference I can give you is that it is based on the work of David Grove.  Caveat: part way through this I started seeing TWO therapists - one to let me talk and one to let me feel. But it started with just feeling.

[Clueless]

Hi Ella,

It's scary when you realise that you space out isn't it? I feel like I can't trust myself, because I have no idea what someone else really said. I've often felt like I have no 'right' to express my wishes or desires, because one minute I may have said "yes" to something that five minutes later I'm saying no to! How can I tell if I'm being unreasonable or if I'm doing myself major harm by going along with someone else, to keep the peace? It's that that's eating me up inside... People have taken advantage of me in my life, and I've taken advantage of others. It's knowing where to draw the line, but if you can't trust yourself what line is there to draw?

[Clueless]

Hey nihil,

Thanks for being so supportive, I really appreciate it. I'm trying to put my life back together one bit at at a time, and I will keep on trying. Maybe you're right, and it is a depression - it's just so scary being out of synch with yourself. I used to try to be there for other people, and then I became terribly isolated and frustrated and started feeling guilty that i was letting them down. There's a whole period of my recent past that I'm suppressing, because of what some people did to me and because of what I did to other people, or sometimes even because what I think I did to other people! It keeps on dragging on and on with little relief, and I keep seeming to make things worse! Anyway, life is a process, and I do believe that people can heal, and from that good things can come.

[Jojo]

Hi Clueless - thanks for replying to my post on mid life crises. I recognised the name and came back to your own post.   As someone who has been on the receiving end of chaotic behaviour - it seems to me that you are already taking huge steps.  You know you have some problems and you are trying to deal with them. If your apologies are sincere and you are genuinely and actively trying to change your behaviour I'm sure the people in your life will  respond postively. If they don't  -perhaps the damage was too great and you will have to accept the loss of that relationship and put it down to part of the learning and healing experience. Who knows you maybe able to come back to it later.  

I know from my own experience that what causes problems are psuedo amends, that are made just to get thro the moment. If you don't deal with the root issues, all that will happen is the cycle will start again  -sooner or later and everyone will suffer - sadly you perhaps more than the others in your life.  The pain inside you will build up further until you explode again.

It seems that you have had some tough times - the death of your mother  at a key time in your life and as you said to me on my post, an absent father.  I never understood how passivity could  cause so many problems until recently. I always assumed it was active abuse that did the damage.    It was interesting that you also lived away from your  home country. I do too and my kids are what are called Third Culture Kids - born and raised outside their passport country  . There is alot of writing on this phenomenum and the impact it has on people which you may find interesting and even helpful.   There are lots of positive things but there can be downsides which people are coming to understand more clealy.

Good luck with your efforts. I hope you have found someone you  qualified to talk to, who you can trust and who will help you find the triggers to all these negative emotions.

[Clueless]

Hey Jojo,

It's lovely to hear from you. I found what you said about passivity very true; I myself have been told that I am extremely passive and closed, and when I was younger I even used to be proud of my "rationality", as if I didn't need emotions! Unfortunately it seems to be a trait that runs through my entire family: almost anyone who has anything to do with us notices it straight off the bat. I think we've got real trouble understanding the difference between weakness and vulnerability, and that's where we fall down.

I guess I'm afraid to let my defenses down; I know I'm ashamed of my erratic behaviour but my "behavior" has been erratic because I was scared to confide in anyone. I tried to tell my dad when I first came home that I was depressed, and he said "oh" and went to bed! I'm not blaming him because I'm the one that withdrew emotionally from everyone else, but I feel so guilty all the time that I "messed up" that I feel like I've got to apologise for the last few years before I can even say hello to someone - real self-obsession stuff! I've just got to learn to let go of the past and like you said, if some people can't forgive me I'll just have to take that chance. Sometimes I think I almost have more of a problem with people who do forgive me - talk about ego defenses eh?

Well, thanks for letting me rant and let off some steam, I hope things are well with you. Take good care of yourself.

[rosencrantz]

Honestly, Clueless - you don't sound like an N at all!!!  More like the victim of one.  When your inner core has been denied and rejected so thoroughly, you'll end up raging at anyone who comes too close.  It doesn't mean you are an N - tho I think we all have some unhealthy narcissism to deal with unless we were very lucky in our parents.  Being defensive, not being able to express your feelings, is not about N-ism.

he said "oh" and went to bed

I'm not blaming him

Maybe not, but perhaps you should expect to feel angry at such a response.

Are you using these labels to give people permission to treat you badly. "If I admit I was in the wrong, THEN you'll be able to love me"??? I've been there.  It doesn't work, you know!!

Actually, labels don't matter.  Somehow you miss the point looking for labels.  I read a description of how the victim of an N feels and knew that this was MY experience.  Wow, knock me over with a feather.  And I had thought noone could ever believe me (and therefore I must be wrong) so I just hid it all away.

But if you're confused and still searching for pieces of the jigsaw then you probably haven't found the right label yet.

You're 'in transition' from one kind of life to another.  Give yourself time to grieve for the past, spend some quiet time in the present, then move on into your brighter future.  You can give up the story of your past 'just like that'.  It's only 'your' version of a past life.  There'll be 20 more different versions out there if you ask around.  

You're diffeent now and the past is gone.

Start from now.

Good luck
R

[Clueless]

Hey rosencrantz,

Thanks for all the support and kindness.

You're right about being in transition, but I just want to come home emotionally, stop obssessing about myself and be there for other people again! But it's been so long I'm not sure they'll want me anymore. All I can do is try to be there for them and for my partner and not be so alone anymore. I still think I have a lot of N-traits because I'm so closed and so unable to really [/i]be there for other people, but I hope I can change. starting from now!

[Anonymous]

I think you're right Rob. I'm not sure my dad really sees any of us or knows any of us, but I've to try again before I become just like him. I've been so consumed with my own problems (no work, no where to live etc) that I've kinda cut myself off from everyone. I can't tell you how ashamed I've been that I of all people should be having problems (an N-ism there?) that I've basically gone into hiding! I know there's no happily ever after, but I've got to try and I'm starting with my dad. Defenses down, try again, and see what happens. I'll let you know.

[Clueless]

Arghh, that was me not logged on!