I have access to my N's personal email

[bunny]

Chandra,

This guy lives in an intense fantasy world most, if not all, the time. He is so out of touch that he had no idea you were "Lisa" and didn't even suspect it. Then he went on and on about some other woman! What a wierdo! If that isn't narcissistic I don't know what is.

If he's not including you in his tales to others, maybe it's because he has some guilt about what he did to you, and doesn't want to refer to the entire episode. Even if he talked about you as he talks about this other woman from 10 years ago, it's all distorted confabulations. I don't think he lives in reality as we know it.

Again, you dodged a bullet big time but it was traumatic.

bunny

[mum]

Chandra:  I have read this thread with much interest.  I think everyone who responded to you has given you good things to consider.  I have a friend who keeps asking her (soon to be) ex: where were you, what were you doing, etc....and she is then striken by his responses.  She basically hands him a knife, and tells him where to stab her!  
Reading/knowing/caring about your ex's doings probably felt like that for you, too, so you sound healthier as you move away from that.
What do you want?  (his name is not supposed to be any part of that answer.) That's what counts.

[Brigid]

Chandra,
My soon-to-be-ex N husband NEVER contacts me unless it is via e-mail telling me that he will be out of town when he is suppose to have his daughter (never, of course, asking if that is a problem for me, but assuming I have no life and am there to service him).  I won't even respond to his e-mails anymore.  He is a total and complete coward and is afraid I will tell him what I think of him, so he never calls me and screens my calls and won't answer if I try to call him.  I would not have known he was an N, but my therapist who saw us as a couple for 6 weeks (and saw him alone once a week during that time) told me he was one of the worst cases he had ever encountered.  So just because your ex-fiance doesn't contact you doesn't mean he is not NPD.

As I read through this entire thread, I can't help but feel how lucky you were that you did not marry this man.  He is seriously disturbed.  He has gender identity issues and probably can't decide if he wants to be straight or gay.  Your life with him would have been doomed.  

You have nothing to be gained by continuing to be in any contact with him, even if it is under false pretenses.  It only serves to hurt you further.  I know how much it hurts to be left so suddenly, but over time you will realize it is for the best and you now have a chance to find true happiness.  Any woman he ends up with will be miserable or be gone in very short order and you will be so glad that you do not have a marriage that needs to be undone.

I hope you have a good therapist to help you through this.

[bludie]

Chandra dear,

Just reading your post makes me sad. Sad for you. Again, it is terrific that you stopped with the e-mails and put this behind you. It is very hard to let go. Inquiring minds want to know. I have cut off or lost all means of knowing much about my ex-N-fiance. Initially it was a horrible feeling. To go from the intention of spending lives together to a total vaccuum is tough. Your remaining current on his comings and goings may have been a distraction from the pain for a while. Now you're sad and it's overwhelming.

1. That he's not really an N and that I was just needing to believe that in order to feel better about being dumped.

I know what you mean. I questioned whether it was the spin I put on our history so as to avoid the feeling of being a Kleenex in his life. As for being pursued, the only thing he wanted from me was a few more swipes at my self-esteem and some money.

2. So if he's not really an N, there must be something about me that caused him to leave me

As you said, not rational, but totally understandable insofar as how you feel. Having a failed marriage and a series of monogamous relationships go by the bye, I have a lot of wondering going on about the "is there something with me" syndrome.

3. Reading his email has caused me to feel rejected by omission. He never talks about me and when he does, it's only about how wrong I was for him

Perhaps he's still trying to convince himself and rewrite history in his mind about your relationship. As bunny pointed out, he lives in fantasy. You come across as real, grounded and self-aware.  You're way too healthy for him.

4. He has recently met a new woman, and has apparently fallen for her and she for him. The very next day, however, he put up two new ads on Internet singles web sites looking for women (he has other ads up looking for transsexual men).

Chandra, he is a total whack job. He doesn't know who he is or what he wants. I pity the next woman because he carries that much more baggage with him. Plus he is confused about his sexual identity and hasn't followed through with his transgender plan.

Since I'd pledged to give up reading his email, I decided to end this little game right away. "Lisa" wrote him back a brief letter saying she had met a couple of other guys who are geographically closer, and she wished him luck. He wrote back saying how much he wanted to meet "Lisa" because she reminded him of this woman from 10 years ago, and he went ON and ON about this woman and how wonderful she is (not real smart if you are trying to woo someone new).

Very glad to hear you won't pursue this, "Lisa." Because he lives in a fantasy and may  have guilt and conflicted feelings about you, that is too much reality. You won't be mentioned or a part of his fantasy world.

I am sorry for you and know you loved him. However, good riddance to bad rubbish as they say, here, in the Midwest!

I guess I wouldn't feel quite as horrible if there was EVER a shred of something positive he said about me. But he never does.

Yup, I would feel the same. When my ex-AM called the other day and in a low, emotional tone said: "I have something to say. It comes from my heart and is as true as I can be...." and then went into how I ripped him off and ruptured his world, I could not friggin' believe it. My heart skipped a beat because I thought, perhaps, he had some reflective thoughts about us, or me, or my daughter. Nope. All about him. Always was, to be butt-honest.

I feel extremely unmotivated to try and meet someone new. I am depleted.

Way too soon. It's just going to suck for a while, Chandra, and then -- little by little and day by day -- things (you) will feel better.

I wonder if I am getting peri-menopausal? I am 47. Maybe my hormones are starting to fluctuate and affect my moods.

Have had the same curiosity and some of the same symptoms. If not peri-menopausal, perhaps situational depression?

I so wish I had never met this man who threw my heart against the wall and walked away as if I never existed.

Yes, I truly wish that most days myself. Last night I had a meltdown and thought: "What is the spiritual lesson in all of this? There was nothing spiritual about how things ended." Thank goodness there are tomorrows, which bring brighter days. I feel for you, Chandra. Good to have you back and keep posting.

Best,

bludie

[Chandra]

Bunny, Mum, Brigid, Bludie,

Thank you all for the reality check. I wonder why it is so hard to keep my brain engaged because when I do, I am FINE. It's just when my emotions kick in, I get confused and sad.

All of you who pointed out that he lives in fantasy are SO RIGHT. This guy was seriously exploring getting breast implants just a week before he met this new woman. And in his transgender ad he says that he's never been with a man or a t-girl (a man who dresses as a woman) before but he is beginning to realize that this is what he is truly seeking in a romance.

Some of you mentioned that he probably feels a certain amount of conflict and possibly guilt over what he did with me (though, supposedly N's don't feel guilt). I think you are right. The reason he ran away from me so fast is because I was TOO appropriate for him. We were HUGELY compatible, (apart from the fact that I am relatively sane he is a nutcase   Yes, his fixation on the woman from 10 years ago is an excuse. It is a completely asexual fantasy. I've read that N's sometimes compartmentalize women into ones they love that they don't have sex with, and ones they have sex with that they can't love. I think that's what's going with this 10 year woman.

Bludie, you suggested that I am too grounded for him. I am pretty grounded and self aware and responsible. I have my financial act together even though I have never been in a high paying field. I think it's entirely possible that he envies me. My net worth is 20 times his even though he's made hundreds of thousands of dollars more than I have. He just blows it with his impulsiveness. That is the one thing that I am consistently happy to have avoided through marriage to him: merging my good finances with his reckless ones.

Bunny, please point me in the direction of your original story on this board if there is one. You consistently nail things right on the head. It makes me wonder what your N experience was and how you understand these N behaviors so well.

I really love it when all of you point out what a whack job this guy is. HE IS!!! Why do I keep forgetting that? What's really odd is that he has people that like him and that confused me (when I was still reading his mail). How can all these people not see through his stuff? Of course, he lifestyle is such that he travels a lot and sees these people very infrequently. Maybe that's how he can keep up the facade of being a good guy. His son doesn't think much of him and his ex-wife won't even talk to him.

Bludie, it's so true what you said about him carrying that much more unpacked baggage with this new woman. I am part of that baggage. You are right. He IS trying to rewrite history when it comes to me. I am the first woman since his wife that he brought to meet his large family that he's very close with. He didn't even bring the 10 year "fantasy" woman home.

Brigid, when you say your soon to be ex is a total and complete coward who avoids talking to you because he's afraid you'll tell him what you think of him....I can well relate to that. I think my ex is also a coward. In fact, he DID write to me a few months ago. He tried to come off loving and magnanimous and spiritual but since I'd been reading his email, I knew his words were false. Besides, he sent the email to me through some mutual friends of ours in order to save face with them. Long story short: I told him exactly what I thought of him in a pretty controlled way and sent the letter via our friends just as he did. No wonder he's afraid of making further contact with me.

Bunny, my best friend also thought it extremely odd that he didn't even suspect "Lisa" was me. I asked specifically about the dog. It is a web site for vegetarians and vegans and there aren't that many of us. He should have figured it out.

About my dog, the reason it is such a violation is that my dog is like my child (since I have no children and ADORE this dog) and he knows it. She is a strikingly beautiful animal and he is essentially exploiting her to get attention for his ad. Women like men who like dogs and this photo is one I took of the two of them when we were just newly engaged and at the height of our love. Why is he using that photo? Is it just another F.U. to me?

Thank you all again for the therapy. I feel much better. I will print out your letters and hang them on my refrigerator.

Love,
Chandra

[mum]

Chandra: you sound good.  As in healthy.  As far as the dog goes: another possible FU to you, but more likely, he's not even really thinking that way....just "what can this do for ME?"
My ex pursues a relationship with my one brother in law who will still speak to him....not so much to say FU to me, but more to say "I still win" with my big family (there are about 40 others who won't speak to him) and because that brother in law is very vulnerable at this time.  Used to get to me, but now I'm going to view it as your ex and the dog picture.  He doesn't really care about the dog at all, just "what can this do for me".

I know you do this, but continue to count your blessings.  No marriage to him, no kids with him.  Sounds wonderful.  HE really could fall off the face of the earth (like I wish mine would) and you really wouldn't have to notice.
Point yourself in that direction!

[Brigid]

Chandra,
I had to chuckle when I read the part where you said you were the first woman to be introduced to his family.  One of the realities I have come to is that my husband married me because I was the first woman with whom he was in a serious relationship that was appropriate enough to bring home to his family.  I am educated, well-spoken, came from an educated family, etc., all of which mattered a great deal to his parents.  His previous relationships were with women I would have to classify as cheap.  I always wondered about that until I finally found out about his addiction to pornography.  Now it makes perfect sense.  It also explains why he could not be intimate with me--I was too appropriate and thus reminded him too much of his mother.

I can pretty much guarantee you that had you married this man, you would have spent the rest of your life with him (I doubt that would have been very long) looking over your shoulder wondering how he was playing out all those sexual fantasies and sordid behaviors and most likely your intimate life would have come to a screeching halt.

Again I say, count your blessings!!

[Lara]

Hi Chandra,
Two thoughts come to my mind.Firstly, you sounded perhaps a little hurt that your ex hadn't tried to contact you for eight months.I don't know if you are hurt by it, but I know that's how I felt when my ex made no attempt to contact me.Eight months of silence after five years of constant contact...I felt as if I had been instantly forgotten. But please note that when these people HAVE made contact again,there has not been much behind the words.My ex has now contacted me several times since his eight months' silence, but he has never ONCE asked how I am (my health was bad when we split up,) how my career is going, etc. He has shown zero interest in anything to do with me.

Secondly,you ask why you keep forgetting what a 'whack job' your ex is. My feeling is that now you have taken the very strong decision to stop reading his emails, you will slowly start to detach from him, and that as you get more distance you will be able to look at him more objectively. This has BEGUN to happen to me recently.I think it's been due to the support and the feedback I've received on this site. When we are still 'under the influence' of these men (or women) we  just can't see things straight. I would have defended  my ex's EVERY ACTION to the highest court in the land until recently.

Give your feelings time dear Chandra.

Sincerely,
Lara.

[Chandra]

Dear Mum and Brigid,

My mother, who is largely non-religious, upon finding out all the stuff about my ex, told me to immediately go to a church or synagogue or mosque for that matter, and light candles thanking the deities for my escape from this marriage. I think that echoes all of your advice about counting my blessings.

Brigid, it is so ironic because part of the magic of this relationship was the what-seemed-to-be-incredible physical relationship that we shared. But his ex wife told me that he lost interest in sex pretty quickly into their 8 year marriage. And even in the several months we were together, I noticed a couple things that might have been clues to an eventual loss of interest on his part.

As for bringing me around to meet his family, I now think part of this might have been a need to show them that he IS capable of being in a relationship, he IS capable of being with a woman (which, of course, he's NOT). So much of his excitement about our "grand" wedding was about showing off to the world (how Narcissistic is THAT?).

Bunny, in a post to Lara (I think), you said that when we stop thinking about N's, they can feel it and they lose energy. Sometimes, it causes them to come around. I have seen this phenomenon in action. It seems when you completely let go of someone, you hear from them. I wouldn't be entirely surprised to hear from my N once I stop thinking about him. I'm sure I would be caught off guard and am not sure what I'd do. I'd probably just be curious about what he had to say. But, this may never happen and that's just as well.

The one year anniversary of our first contact is coming up next Saturday. I think I will use it to do some additional purging ceremonies: sage my house, burn some of his emails, do some kind of re-birthing ritual for myself----stuff like that. I will banish his sick energies from my psyche, hopefully forever.

Chandra

[Chandra]

Hi Lara,

We must have been posting at the same time this morning, so I missed acknowledging your comments.

Thanks for pointing out that I am missing nothing by the fact that he hasn't attempted to contact me. As I mentioned in a previous post, the one time he DID contact me was completely bogus and transparent and my reply to him put him in his place without being overly viscious. I was happy with my reply. It was honest and sane-sounding, rather than angry and crazy-sounding. In a post Bunny wrote a while back, she mentions something called "linking" (????) where N's can't tolerate someone rationally outlining reality. That's what he can't tolerate about me: that I am fairly capable of bottom-lining his bad behavior and that I won't back down. I have a background in counseling and I wouldn't be at all surprised if he felt threatened by that. I could shine a spotlight on his disorders. That's why he ran so fast. When we were engaged, we used to joke that how he has his very own mental health professional, because, g-d knows, he sure needs one!

I can already see the positive effects of disconnecting from his email and thereby, his life. I'm excited to see how I'll feel a few weeks from now and then a few months from now.

This site has been so valuable. This is my first experience posting to a board like this. I am highly impressed with the quality of the people who participate. Thank you all!

Chandra

[Anonymous]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this to you yet, but I would highly recommend "Why is it always about you:  The 7 sins of narcissism."

I read it because I grew up in a narcissistic household and it changed my life.  One of the hallmarks of the N family situation is a real lack of boundaries.  It makes sense, since the parents don't think of the children as people apart from them.

I read it to figure out how they had affected me, and the thing that stuck me most forcefully was how I didn't really have a clue about boundaries myself!  The book talks about lack of boundaries at work, in relationships, etc. and boy was I doing a lot of that boundary-crossing.  I had no idea! When I was young I always snooped in my boyfriends houses when they weren't around. I tried very hard a couple of years ago to figure out why an ex broke up with me, and if I had had access to his e-mail I would have read it!   I just thought of it as "science" and gathering information and a way to get over him.  Heck, when I was younger I used to drive by an ex's house to see what he was up to!  It was just irresistable.  Writing it makes me cringe, but there you go.  You're not alone.

All of which is a long-winded way of saying that the desire to be with him in the first place,  and the desire to read his e-mail, has roots in something about your family and your parents, I would just bet.  The next time you want to snoop, go to the bookstore or go on Amazon and buy some books on narcissism and see if anything rings a bell.  And feel free to come here and share your feelings with us-- that might help, too!

[Chandra]

To the last Guest who posted a reply:

Please read through the entire thread, if you are interested. There were a lot of opinions, pro and con, about the value of reading his email, at least for a time. That time has come to an end. I'm done and I haven't felt the need to do it again.

My mother has N tendencies and I've worked hard to make sure she doesn't subsume me. I've made good progress.

I think my own boundaries are reasonably healthy. I have been in several relationships. This is the first time I have been betrayed to this degree. This is the first time I have needed to find out the truth and use whatever means were available to me. I've had relationships that ended sadly, but never ones that ended so badly. I keep a journal and have for decades. I believe in karma. I don't want anyone to read my personal journals, and I am very conscious of respecting the privacy of others.  As I look at my life and my behavior, I see that this is an isolated incident of "crossing boundaries" and it had a very specific purpose and I am very glad I had this opportunity to learn the truth.

Now here's something that MAY actually be a problem: I am still pretty upset that he caused me this much pain and possibly harm and walked away scott free. I am not happy with that at all. It's time to revisit the What Exactly is Wrong with Revenge thread I started, because I am still wanting some kind of justice.

Society punishes criminals. You commit a crime, you pay for it. What is the difference between that and some approriate form of retribution for a crime of the heart? I am struggling with what would be appropriate in this case. What would feel satifsying? What would put closure on this for me? I don't want him dead or sick. I want him to suffer in proportion to the suffering he caused me. I wish our society had courts for stuff like this.

Chandra

[Anonymous]

Look, life will dish him up all the hurts that could satisfy you.

The life of a two-bit unattractive 50-year-old would-be porn-star transvestite is hardly one to be envied is it??? Or is it?

This guy is a loser. That's your revenge. Portia

[Chandra]

Portia,

I think I may copy and paste and continue part of this discussion back in the Revenge thread.

Here's the thing about this guy: he's VERY attractive, VERY charming, has a GREAT body as he works out all the time, is a gifted athlete, is well-employed, lives in a beautiful house, and has a lot of people convinced he's warm, caring and sincere. (When he's dressed as a woman, from the photos I've seen, I think he looks gawd-awful and definitely too old to be a porn star----but I think the porn star thing is just another one of his vivid fantasies, since he's back in a hetero mode for the time being). As a man, he comes off as VERY desirable and women are simply attracted to him. And he is a gifted writer and has the ability to tell a woman all the right things. So, he will continue to get away with bad behavior.

This is what really irks me.

It's been a week since I quit the email reading. Maybe I am just purging the last bit of toxicity from my system. I hope so. I'll see how I feel in a few more weeks.

Chandra

[Brigid]

Chandra,
I see many common characteristics between your N and mine.  Mine is very charming, attractive, wealthy and gives women the impression that he really listens to them and "feels their pain."  He also has the whole porn thing going on, but as far as I know, it is still at the stage where he wants his partner to look the part.  I don't know his married girlfriend, but I'm assuming she must have some dysfunctions of her own to be attracted to and willing to go along with his desires.

He never told me about his fantasies during our marriage, but when he saw me as totally vulnerable, weak and desperate after he broke the news of wanting a divorce, he knew he could get me to do anything he wanted.  After six weeks of getting everything he wanted and totally dominating me, he left.  It is very humiliating to think back on what I was willing to do to try to save our marriage.  This has been the hardest part from which to recover.  That he would take such pleasure from my pain is hurtful beyond words.  I was certainly not the perfect wife, but don't think I did anything to deserve that.

There are many people in our community who still like him a great deal.  As I've said before, I wish I could take out a billboard to tell them all the truth.

I have fantasized about what kind of revenge would be appropriate.  I do believe that what goes around, comes around.  He will get his someday.  Whether he will recognize it is questionable.  It will not come from me.  It is beneath me to bother.  As I've also said before, my life as a success without him will be my greatest revenge.