I chatted with my ex. I cant beleive her, I know now

[bkkabri]

It never seems to stop in my head.   No matter who I talk to, if I start to care for them, its an invitation to hurt me because I couldnt solve their problems.  The part that kills me is that I never intended to get with people to solve problems.  Somehow, I become the problem.  I know you guys are sick of hearing about my ex, but it is the the very situation I speak of about my entire life.  For some reason, people come into my life making me feel like we are friends, and then they run from me without explanation.  My ex is just another person to add to my list of people I care about who wanted nothing more than to use me.  My dad, even in his sick bed, used me so he didnt have to die alone.  I dont know how much you guys know about AIDS, but it is nothing like you hear about.  You dont die, you rot from the inside out.  It gives you time to think about all you did and all you wanted to do and cant.  Somehow, I took on the responsibility for my dad.  I was fired from my job(they let me leave) due to absences.  I could not tell them he was dying from AIDS because he threatend to kill himself if people found out.  Its an erray feeling talking to a young man you love about his demise.  This all happened before we knew exactly AIDS would be contracted.  I would eat from his forks, but try not to touch the stainless steel.  I would hug him, but inside fear I could get it from wounds he had.  I sat in the hospital listening to other families losing their love one to AIDS.  Its so hard to hear a woman scream at the top of her lungs when they lose somebody.  You can shut the door, but it doesnt shut out the sound.  I never cried in front of him, but when I went down the hall, I would find a place to shed my tears.  Watching a person die is not like television.  You hear the sounds of gasping for air like your drowning.  Your skin turns blue, and you become cold instantly.  This is my experience with my dad.  I never really had a chance to sit with him and enjoy a beer.  I never shared this with anyone, but this is why it hurt to hear about people dying from my ex.  Instead of her being a compassionate person, I was supposed to give her everything and not have any respect for the loss of my dad.  I never told her this story, I simply requested to tone down the graphic details of her patients.  She never even seen a person die.  I didnt want to not talk about her day, I just wanted to celebrate our life with each other and build memories.  She just thinks she is so important and that everything was about me.  The only thing about me that was one sided was that I wanted to spend quality time together as a couple.  Instead she wants to blame me for her insecurities for which I have no understandings.  She was the most important person to me and all she can say is that I didnt give her 80% to her 20%.  I would talk about my brother, but I try to block him out of my mind so I dont have a breakdown.  I just want to get thru the day with somebody telling me that its ok.  I hate her.  I hate her for making me beleive in that she loved me.  I hate myself for attracting her to me.  I didnt tell her to show weakness, I told her because I am human.

[Anonymous]

The part that kills me is that I never intended to get with people to solve problems. Somehow, I become the problem.  For some reason, people come into my life making me feel like we are friends, and then they run from me without explanation. My ex is just another person to add to my list of people I care about who wanted nothing more than to use me

Brian: A good therapist or counsellor will help you so that this is not the case for you anymore. Help you to see the "whys" and "hows" and also how to make changes.

Imagine how relieving and great that would be.  

Please give it a try.

[cindinj]

I never get to have needs.  I am condemned for having them.

Boy can I relate to that.  All my life my Nmother told me "you're too sensitive" or "you're too emotional".  It just meant I wasn't allowed to have feelings or express needs that weren't being met.

My heart breaks for you and I hope and pray you are able to find a great therapist who can help you grieve all the pain you are carrying and find wholeness.

Cindi

[bunny]

Brian,

Little by little, we're hearing more of your story. I guess this is how you need to relay it. It's hard to tell it all at once because it's so horrific. Maybe if it's embedded in the story about "her" then you can tell us what happened. I think you were really hoping someone ("she") would finally understand what it's been like for you. But then she was just as cold as the others, and didn't have a clue about you.

bunny

[bkkabri]

I never wanted to talk about it.  I have it buried inside where I can deal with it.  It was just the one story she told me about this guy dying a slow death that touched a nerve.  I respected her feelings, I made a request to tone down the language.  I cant beleive she misunderstood me.  Its over because I made her feel like she cant talk about her day.  My dad ruined my happiness again.  Fuck him.  I want a life.  I want to be married and come home to a wife that I love and cherish and feels the same about me.  She gave me that in the beginning.  Now I am finding out that she is insecure about everything in life and that she cant handle a misunderstanding.  How was I supposed to know she wants 80% from me to make her happy.  She never talked about anything she is saying in the email.  I am lost about this whole thing.  Why say it now but not when you were hurting.  How was I supposed to know me doing stand up made you feel bad like you were on the sideline.  I give up.  I will go thru life alone without needs.

[ResilientLady]

Hi Brian,
I am glad that you start seeing things from a different angle, w/ a big picture.

Somehow, I took on the responsibility for my dad.

It's good that you recognize this, you are more in touch with your pain. The over-responsibility feeling may be a source of your feelings of shame.

My dad, even in his sick bed, used me so he didnt have to die alone.

I was wondering about other members of your family (your mother, grand-parents...).
How did they react when they learnt about the AIDS?
What about friends of your father or family?

I was also wondering if you had thought about support groups (in addition to this Board) about people dealing w/ the same situation as yours. They may provide you w/ a more specific understanding.
Here is what I found (dunno about the quality of it):
http://www.aarogya.com/SupportGroup/AIDS/index.asp
http://www.compassionatefriends.org/Chat/chat_entrances.shtml
And  books :
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0312420137/ref=ase_anacondapartners/104-8545136-8351102
http:// http://www.aegis.com/pubs/books/1998/BK98A001.html

You are making progress, step by step. Keep posting, keep going in this direction, you are on the right track. One day you may feel ok enough to see a therapist.
Best,
-RL

[Anonymous]

Lots of issues and lots of pain, Brian.

So, have you looked into that  therapy????

Please answer as a lot of people offering you support here feel that could be very helpful for you and are curious about that part of things.

Someone else mentioned support groups specific your needs in different areas. Both online and offline are an excellent idea too.

[bunny]

Brian,

It seems like all you have to do is make one false move and people will turn on you. Better not to have needs, then no one can demolish you like she did.

bunny

[BlueTopaz]

Hello Brian:

I agree with those who mention the importance of therapy. But I can also imagine that it might be an extremely scary thought right now.

On a smaller/different scale, it's kind of like going to the dentist. We know it's for the best but anticipate the pain so like to put it off, as well.

Especially if yours is a pain that you've kept buried for a long while (vs. very fresh), it might even seem harder to change that self protective way that has been there so long, and merely begin to express it to someone in detail (counselor), let alone actually work through it.

A competent helper will know how difficult it is and will work with pacing things in the best way.  

If you are worried about very specific things about the therapy process, while you are looking for a person for this whom you feel would suit you (you can try a few & then choose if you'd like) you can tell them what your specific worries about therapy are, and ask them how they would address these fears with you so that they would not interfere with your getting the help you need.

And if you have any suggestions, you can also ask how they would feel about the idea of doing a certain thing a certain way, for your comfort.  

It seems like you have so much going on that is impeding your happiness in life so much, that it could make a huge positive life change for you to begin to face them in a professional, supportive environment.

Also, as others have mentioned, support groups\boards both offline and online can help a lot on top of therapy(just FYI; it is customary to let your therapist know you are also participating in these). Whatever you are going through, there are others on the boards or who have formed support groups that are going through the same thing, and struggling with the same painful & frustrating feelings.  There will also be those who will share with you how they have overcome many of the painful feelings and circumstances that you are now experiencing.

Sometimes people keep things emotionally buried for decades, or even pass on with these things still entangled within them.  They are simply too afraid to face the pain & anger of them.

I tell you, it takes a lot of courage to start facing all that stuff, but what can help is remembering how much you want a better life in so many ways, and the opportunity to feel happy & peaceful inside, and also have a wonderful, loving, lasting relationship with a woman in the future.

Try to use the thoughts of the very specific outcomes you want in your life to motivate you through any fear in working through it all.    

BT

[BKKABRI]

I start therapy tonight.  I have no fear, I was there for 3 years.  The problem I have is not with my father and his death.  I accept it.  The problem I have is that no matter who I have in my life, they freak out on me and say the most vile stuff.  If you read the parts of my conversation with my ex(there was more) she is saying things that a 10 year old would say.  She is telling me that we are over and that it was all my fault because I was living my life the way everyday people do.  I gave 100% to the relationship as a grown man would.  I had no idea that I was supposed to give her 80% of my day nurturing her while she wanted to give me 20%.  The point I am trying to make is that everyone in my life that I love and care about cant seem to sit with me and relax and enjoy each other as people.  There always has to be something that makes them freak out.  I never said anything to this woman that I dont say to other women where she would get so upset.  I didnt even know she was so insecure.  I was talking about a prime time television show.  I want her back, but I want the one I met back.  I cant have her because she doesnt exist.  I just wish I never said anything about my dad.  She misunderstood everything I was trying to say.  It hurts me so much inside to think she thinks this was a one sided relationship.  The truth is it was-I gave up doing things with her so she could study.  I made no demands.  And its all my fault.  Why does N shit have to exist in this world.  What a waste

[Anonymous]

{{{Brian}}}

I am so glad to hear you'll be starting therapy tonight. Hopefully you'll find some answers to your questions or at least be able to accept the unacceptable. I know you hurt. Keep posting and let us know how your session goes.

Best,

bludie

[Brigid]

Brian,
I'm so glad you are getting the therapy you so desperately need.  My criteria for a good therapist is their approach to healing.  My N husband sees a therapist who heals from the outside in--encouraging him to do things that make him feel good and to surround himself with people who make him feel good and to read a bunch of books.  This works well for him so he will never have to face the pain inside of himself that brought about this NPD in the first place.  He will never have to confront the instigator of that pain, his father, and hold him accountable for his abandonment of his family through alcoholism.  

The therapist I see heals from the inside out.  He is making me work to find all the pain that has been inflicted by my parents and by my husband, face it, and eventually learn and heal from it.  You have been severely hurt by many people in your life.  Like me, I think you expect people close to you to love and care for you the way you love and care for them.  You are constantly disappointed and put the blame on yourself rather than seeing their inability to provide that love and caring.  I have been searching my entire life for someone who truly loves me and have always settled for the first person who shows any caring at all.  Deep down I didn't think I deserved any more than that.  I have been married to 2 men who did nothing but hurt me.  However, the first one was at least honest and open about it, so we weren't married for long, but the second pretended to be someone he was not and I would have hung on forever waiting for the true love to come.  Thankfully, he forced me out of the relationship and through all the pain of the break-up I can now see how much better off I will be in the future.  He has actually done me and the kids a big favor (along with the slut he is running around with).

I hope you have found a therapist that will work for you.  If you are not comfortable talking with him/her, move on and try someone else.  I would not be where I am and understanding things the way I do now if not for my therapist.  He is one of the first people in my life to care about me unconditionally and is committed to my healing.   You say you want the woman back that you married, but she was never really there.  Her NPD combined with your insecurities made you vulnerable and you could not see the woman for who she was.   There are healthy women out there who will love you for who you are, but you have to be healthy first to attract them.

I wish you well.

[Blue Topaz]

I start therapy tonight

That's so great, Brian. You know you have a lot of well wishes behind you.

I hope that you find one of the gems (helpers) out there.  

Very best of luck & hope to hear how you are feeling, over time.

BT

[bunny]

Best wishes on the therapy.

bunny

[bkkabri]

I had therapy tonight, it was a waste.  She looked me like she doesnt know where to begin.  I need to know from you out there that I am not crazy.  You have been here with me.  I need to know that this woman has problems that were beyond me.  I need to know that I didnt do something so tragic to make a woman buy me porn on xmas, ruin all our holidays, I still love the fascade, why do that to me?  How can a person say that I need to give 80% and accept 20% and say that is acceptable?  I need to know that my needs are normal and not hurtful to a woman.  I only tried to make her feel loved, but she says I was looking for others.  How can that be?  I hate her for making me feel like she loved me and then dumped me.  I told her about my dad to ease up on the techical terms.  Not to stop talking about her day.here is the whole conversation

DDDBOP:  I prefer just to send an email.
BKKabri:  Please talk to me.  Its not what you think
BKKabri:  I just need to understand something
DDDBOP:  what is it then ?
BKKabri:  why are you being so cold to me like we never even knew each other, I am trying to be adult about this.  Is that possible with you?
DDDBOP:  I am not cold, I am certainly an adult.
BKKabri:  Then why are you acting like I did something so horrible to you that we cant be civil.
BKKabri:  One minute we are a couple and the next insecurities are flying about.  I just want to know why you couldnt talk to me about it
BKKabri:  I am not trying to upset you.  I am trying to reach out to you to understand that I never intended to make you feel insecure with me.
BKKabri:  I also never intended to make you feel that your career wasnt important
BKKabri:  to me.
DDDBOP:  I am not acting that way. You did not do something horrible. We had a relationship. It did not work. we are not compatible. Communication was the problem. You chose to only communicate about yourself and your experiences. My experiences were not improtant to you. You did not care to hear about them. I tlkaed to you many times about or issues. You chose not to listen. I can't live that way. I need a partner who will respect me and what I do, and treat me like I someone important
BKKabri:  I do respect you very much
DDDBOP:  No you don't.
BKKabri:  Deena, I respect you alot.
DDDBOP:  No you don't.
BKKabri:  Deena, please understand what I am trying to say.  It is hard to write
BKKabri:  I made a mistake by not understanding your career.
BKKabri:  I dont know the differece between a nurse practionter and a nurse.  Thats because I am not that bright in medicine
BKKabri:  I wanted to hear about your day, I really did.
BKKabri:  Sometimes I just didnt understand
BKKabri:  it wasnt intentional
DDDBOP:  I spend 80% of my day trying to save lives and help people feel better. I need a partner who will spend 80% of their time nurturing me. I deseve that, I intend on having that.
BKKabri:  I wanted to nurture you
DDDBOP:  You wanted to nurture yourself
BKKabri:  thats why I was there trying to show you a good time by sharing ourselves
BKKabri:  I dont want to nurture myself
BKKabri:  I bought you the palm pilot because I knew you needed it
BKKabri:  thats not nurturing
BKKabri:  ?
DDDBOP:  We did not share our lives because it was always about you and your needs. I was just on the sideline.
BKKabri:  you were not a sideline Deena
DDDBOP:  Yes I was.
BKKabri:  I loved you, and wanted nothing more than to make you happy
BKKabri:  I wanted nothing more than to be with you
BKKabri:  and nurture our relationship
BKKabri:  I am sorry you didnt get the message when I said I wanted to share things together.
BKKabri:  our lives our feelings.
DDDBOP:  Well, you did not show it. I wanted to feel like I was the most improtant person in your life. I never did.
BKKabri:  you were the most important person to me
BKKabri:  you still are
BKKabri:  Deena, I would have did anything if you would have just let me in
DDDBOP:  No I was not.
BKKabri:  to your heart
BKKabri:  I dont understand why you feel like this
BKKabri:  I tried to spend every night with you and bonding with you as a couple
BKKabri:  I knew you needed to study,so I gave you space to do it.
BKKabri:  If you needed more, all you needed was to ask
DDDBOP:  I did let you in. I exposed everything about myself to you. The good,bad, and ugly. It was never good enough. You were always searching for something or someone else.
BKKabri:  never searching for anybody else.
BKKabri:  I was always there with you
DDDBOP:  Doubtful.
BKKabri:  Thats why I became so upset when you mentioned other women
BKKabri:  I was never looking.
DDDBOP:  Again, doubtful.
BKKabri:  On Valentines Day, I tried to make you the center of attention
DDDBOP:  Well, it did not work.
BKKabri:  I bought you roses, a necklace, dinner, and you still wouldnt let me in
BKKabri:  your heart
BKKabri:  instead I am being yelled at about VH1
DDDBOP:  Did you misunderstand what I previously mentioned?
BKKabri:  no, you stated you had insecurrities.  I didnt know until October.  If I am not understanding, then please let me know.  I am sorry if I am missing something
DDDBOP:  My insecurities, which now am I finally over, were in large part ignitied by you.
BKKabri:  how is that possible?  I never talked about other women,
BKKabri:  I always complimented you and you didnt like me saying you looked "nice or good"
BKKabri:  can we please talk on the phone
DDDBOP:  Again, it is a shame that you were so unaware of the insecurities which had grown between us unitl october. You were not listening to me. You chose to put me on ignore.
DDDBOP:  I don't want to talk on the phone.
BKKabri:  no I didnt, you never said anything, how was I supposed to know
DDDBOP:  I said plenty. You chose to not listen .
BKKabri:  please give me an example
BKKabri:  you didnt talk about your class, instead you let it fester and make me guess what was wrong.  As a couple, you could have just said that your school screwed up
BKKabri:  I would have understood, its not your fault.
BKKabri:  I just dont understand why you felt you couldnt tell me
DDDBOP:  All those times when I said I can't feel as though I can talk about my day with you, the times I informed that the relationship is one sideded, all about you, the issues in the bedroom. Come on Brian, were even in the relatioship at all ?
DDDBOP:  Look , I was unhappy for quite sometime in the relationship in the past year. You were not happy also. We were and are not meant to be.
BKKabri:  you never said anything about the one sided relationship, you never said hey Brian I need to talk about my day.  And the situation in the bedroom was MY FAULT!  I never asked you to take responsiblity.
BKKabri:  Why couldnt you just say something to make me see you needed to talk about your day.  You didnt even invite me to see your work or meet your coworkers
DDDBOP:  I can not believe that you can honestly state that I never mentioned I felt the relationship was one sided and how I felt uncomfortable discussing my day because it made you so uncomfortable. As far as the bedroom, I realize now that is was your issue and not mine.
BKKabri:  it never was your issue.  I only asked you to relax with me and maybe understand that I needed to work things thru
BKKabri:  you never said the relationship was one sided or you feel uncomfortable about talking about your day.
DDDBOP:  Well, I did.
BKKabri:  well then why not say anything so that I could understand
BKKabri:  I am not a mind reader.  
DDDBOP:  I said it very clearly, verbally.
BKKabri:  you said it in October, not in the first year when you felt it
DDDBOP:  I need to sign off soon. I need to study for my boards.
BKKabri:  Deena, please understand one thing.
DDDBOP:  I said it well before October. Look, we are going in circles now just as we did then. Leading to nowhere.
BKKabri:  then hear this
BKKabri:  no more circles
BKKabri:  I love you Deena, and I am sorry that this all happened.  If I was a bad listener, it was unintentional.  I just wanted you to know that I never wanted anything from you other than to make each other happy and grow together.  Its hard to understand though when you had these insecurities and wouldnt help me understand so that I could do a better job of helping each other through them
BKKabri:  I guess you dont understand that doing things outside the norm (christmas, valentines day, anniversary) really caused me to back off because I didnt understand
BKKabri:  and just so you know, we were in a relationship.  you said you loved me and I was your best friend.  I dont know where that went, but if you really loved me, then you could have told me how you felt and worried about our relationship diminishing
DDDBOP:  Brian, I wish the best and all that is good in life. I know you  will be successful and happy. I certainly don't hate you, the relatinship's failure was a result of the two of us. Nobody is to blame. It just did not work out. I tried to help you understand my insecurities. I guess I did not communicate them clearly enough. Again, nobody is to blame. I do believe in fate. It was not our fate to be together forever. I did love you at one time. But that that love faded. I need love that will alst forever.
BKKabri:  Thats what I was trying to do.  By the way, you spent 80% of your time with your job and wanted 80% nurturing from me.  That is what I am trying to say.  You gave me 20% of your time and I wanted a relationship that was at least 50%
DDDBOP:  Well, I am sorry you feel that way. Just one more reason why our relationship did not last.
BKKabri:  do you know what naricisissim is?
BKKabri:  you should look it up.
DDDBOP:  Which I am not.
BKKabri:  You may want to reconsider.
BKKabri:  you told me that I dont make enough
BKKabri:  money, what is my five year plan.
DDDBOP:  Oh my God. Now your reaching. I never said that. I take offense to that.
BKKabri:  you said that when you broke up with me.  I am the one who should be offended
BKKabri:  this is what I am talking about
BKKabri:  you deny everything
DDDBOP:  I can not believe you are lying to yourself now.
BKKabri:  dont even go there
BKKabri:  you bought me porn on xmas, freaked on valentines day and said all that cruel stuff in your house
BKKabri:  you said you want a man who is going to make as much as you
BKKabri:  I wont waste anymore of your time.  I now know how immature you really are and I can honestly say that somebody needs to look in the mirror and realize they lie way too much.  you actually told my mother that you have a xmas party for your neighbors.  I was there for two years and you never had a person over.  You actually threw Michelle out the door.  We had an amazing conversation about how you talked to her in June like you were best friends and then you act like you know her
BKKabri:  dont know her
DDDBOP:  Look, I am done with this conversation. I don't even know what you are talking about. It has now taken a bad turn. I have said enough. I am sorry things ended up this way.  I am signing off now. I wish you the best in your future. Please respect my wishes, and do not contact me.
BKKabri:  I wont
DDDBOP signed off at 2:14 PM