When do they stop?

[mum]

Just wondering: When do they stop?  When/ or what makes the N's stop(any of the following):

1) taking a mile when they see an inch
2) f___ with you just to f___ with you
3) go over different versions of the same thing again and again
4) keep trying to find the chink in you armor so they can attack

I am so tired of this.   I guess I need to be thankful, as every time I have to deal with him, I get stronger.
I share kids with an N and the less I care about him, the less charge I have on things, the more creative he gets in messing with things. (and then I care because it involves my kids and I just plain get tired of this old thing.) I am done with him.  When is he going to give me up?

How's this:  I will say "THANK you so much for being a jerk.  Because of you, I have grown.  It's all about ME now, so thanks for giving me this attention and opportunity for growth.  Because of the difficulty you keep presenting in my life, I am a fantastic person!"

What on earth would an N do with that??

Thanks for allowing me to vent.  I do believe what I said about a gift for growth, but I am tired!
Any ideas?  Shall I do the broken record thing/ stick to the facts maam thing (that's what I do now)
Keep on keeping on?
Accept that they will never really stop?

[Anonymous]

Accept that they will never really stop?

This gets my vote.

What you can do is mitigate his damage by being the good parent, which you're doing.

bunny

[vunil]

How's this: I will say "THANK you so much for being a jerk. Because of you, I have grown. It's all about ME now, so thanks for giving me this attention and opportunity for growth. Because of the difficulty you keep presenting in my life, I am a fantastic person!"

What on earth would an N do with that??

Oh, I'm sure he could find something nicely grandiose and annoying to say back.  And he would tailor it especially to what he knows about you to make sure that it was as hurtful and superior as possible.  Then probably you would  feel compelled to kick him in the shins.  

I am so sorry you are entangled with him for life.  You can't walk away from him like the rest of us can from our parents or ex's with whom we don't have kids.  It must really, to use a clinical term, suck.

But remember he isn't an equal partner in your development as a person.  He is an impediment to be gotten around.  By now you ought to be able to manipulate him to keep him as quiet and nonirritating as possible, and as little a part of your life as possible.   You can tell us whatever the real truth is about him, and your friends, and your pillow.

I know it's easier said than done-- I am struggling with the same stuff and don't mean to give the impression I think it's easy or that I always do it well.

And the one caveat to this advice is that if you haven't ever tried to confront him about his narcissism, it might be a useful thing to go ahead and do it and get it over with. I assume you probably have done this already, and gotten rebuffed and rejected and/or ignored.  That really super-satisfying result to the first time you did it is pretty much what you can expect in the future

[miaxo]

Hi Mum

As you know I am in the same type of situation.  Unfortunately for us and our children they will NEVER stop.  

I know it may sound selfish but I keep hoping that X N will become involved with someone so that his attention will be directed elsewhere. To be honest though I don't know for sure  if that would temporarily put an end to it.  I don't hold out much hope for this since X N can't seem to maintain any relationship for more than a few months.  I'm certain that most women *catch on* to him .....especially women who have already been through divorces, etc.

Anyway, hang in there. Live your life well and express your love for your children every day.  

When X N is trys to push my buttons or engage me in any manner, I remind myself that he is a pathetic being who loathes himself. He is not worth my time and energy....I already wasted too much of both on him for many years....now it's my turn to live so I can be the best I can be for my children and for my husband.

I am sorry for all your hurt and frustrations created by the N in your life.  Keep as much distance as possible.  I know that it is difficult b/c of the children.  

Mum, I envy your situation b/c your kids are older than mine which means you won't be dealing with him as much.  Keep that in mind to lift your spirits.  Hey, you could be me and looking at another fourteen years until one of the kids reaches 18.  

Hang in there.

[Anonymous]

mum and mia,
Though I am not in the same situation, I very much recognize the challenges you two face. Both of you strike me as earnest, self-aware, learning, growing and thinking women who have their childrens' needs as the priority. Bless you both. There are many out there that can't see their way clear toward your types of outlook and commitment.

mum, I don't think there is an easy answer. As bunny suggested accept that he is a sicko, that he'll continue to mess with your mind as long as it achieves his aim or feeds his sense of superiority/retribution/ego/whatever. The best you can do, I believe, is fortify yourself to stay strong. Use this forum to vent but not to him. It just gives him satisfaction and your personal sense of power away.

My very best to both of you,

bludie

[Guest from afar]

First, I am so sorry you are stuck in this awful situation. It would be great if you could walk away, but you can't.

In my experiences with narcissists, they react best when you speak to their inner child, which is who they really are. They never really grew up. Sadly, you are dealing with a two year old in an adult body.   So the idea is to think what would win over a two year old. Well, bribes work pretty well.   Eg "If you will stop telling me that story, I will bake you your favorite cake." Well, it is worth a try, anyway. I reflect on the several narcissists who have played key roles in my life and this type of manoeuvre has had some success. (sigh)

I really hope you can find some effective ideas soon. Let us know how things go.

S

[mum]

Thanks for all your helpful replies.

Bunny: as usual, you are the voice of reason. thanks for validating my parenting as well.

Mia: my ex actually is remarried.  People are always surprised by that.  His behavior is not that of a man who has moved on.  I am amazed that she puts up with his obvious obsession in messing with me....my therapist told me she is like his luietenant (sp?)as a result of likely abuse and he constantly refers to "WE" instead of "I" now (what to make me afaid of her?)..  I'm pretty sure from things my kids have said to me that he cheats on her but she is right there with him hating me (my kids hear this)...she may also be in it for the money, or he may be allowing her to do whatever, or she will take him to the cleaners! Unfortunately, that relationship has not taken his focus off me.
yes, I will think of you when I bemoan the years left!!  Hang in there yourself!

Vunil: confronting him with his narcissism is something I have done in discussions where I point out to him that the world doesn't work so that everything goes his way. He is usually stumped as to what to say, either that or that concept doesn't even get through his self absorbed skull ("does not compute")as in I am speaking an alien language.  I will save any NPD diagnosis or terminology of that for a therapist who will be evaluating our custody arrangements.  I am hopeful, yet not attached to, that person actually figuring him out.
(the family courts are a mess.  the good guy winning is just a crap shoot
and hey, you can't lose 'em all!)

Guest from afar:  The idea of spelling things out for him like a child is what I do regularly.  He usually responds with more rage.  Oh well.  I try to do it with detachment, which, I know encourages his rage (because I don't take his anger on, and it stays with him).  I consult with my attorney on many things before I reply, as I consider it money well spent.

Bludie: Yes, staying strong is key.  Discussing it with fellow recoverees (is that a word) has helped with that emmensely.

[vunil]

I'm so sorry you have to deal with him.  It sounds as if he is pretty mad at you for not falling into line.  Off with your head!  He has found someone to marry who is more accomodating than you were but it's still not enough because you are still there, not obeying his superior wishes and not properly worshiping him.  


Narcissists want everything.  It one of the weirdest aspects of them-- for most of us, A can compensate for not having B.  For them, they have to have both A and B or it feels like nothing.  



My bet is that he stops bugging you when he finds someone else to be furious with.  If his wife leaves him or someone he knows at work or whatever really gets in his way then he might turn his attention and fury and manipulations to them.  Which leaves you something really weird to hope for, but anyway...


I guess we all can't say "hang in there" enough!