INTJ "chat"

[Anonymous]

According to the test (or the prophesy-heehee   ), I'm INFJ.

I recall, Portia, that you posted in the "Anything" thread that you go back and forth between INFJ and INTJ.

How did you discover that?  Did you take the test on different days?  At different points in your life?  Can you tell when you are feeling more like one than the other? (or should I ask....thinking more like one or other?)

This may be the dumbest realiazation yet but I had no idea that I was sensitive.    I took that test and scored 20.  Gee.....I always thought I was shy and weird and wired a bit tight.    What an odd thing to find out at this point in life.

Anyone else?  Are these two things easy to confuse?

GFN

[Anonymous]

http://www.hsperson.com/pages/test.htm

[Portia]

Hello all, I’ve been busy. Having started this, I want to come back.

Bunny:

I scored ISTJ. Don't know what sensing means.

It wasn’t my opinion above that it sounds like you here, but I do agree, it does sound like you here. Introvert (get your energy from your thoughts, not from other people?) sensing (as opposed to intuiting, yes sounds like the way you directly address peoples’ problems, as opposed to my jumping to conclusions based on patterns and gut feel!), thinking and judging – definitely, like me, you’re not a ‘feeler’ and you do like decisions and conclusions. But it’s only a superficial idea. We’re all a bit of everything sometimes I think. But it helped me to understand that other people simply are so different to me, extraverts needing many relationships as opposed to some way of achieving and ordering. And the Perceivers way of not needing concrete conclusions amazes me! October made me realise this. Thanks October.

Mum:

One woman said: "oh, that sounds so very bohemian! How exciting and unusual your life is, I can just picture it!"  I was stunned,

Oh dear, yes, I can imagine. How people assume so much, how they immediately relate something about your life, to their life…like “you’re so lucky to be able to…{travel/live there/do that}”. Like we have no personal agency in what we do. Maybe your lady couldn’t cope with the reality of sleeping in the dog basket. Yeah. So she imposes her fantasy.

One is that we spend quite bit of our lives (people in general) trying to cover what we really are....we get stories/experiences about ourselves and stick with them....they become us. When we are asked to express/ourselves in art, it can be frightening and a possible threat to that image/story.

 Not sure we consciously try and cover what we are, but subconsciously yes, our real selves get so kicked down, it might be scary to express the self we aren’t familiar with, through art. I like your idea. It’s like being scared of the freedom.

There is a bit of a conspiracy in art

I’m sure there is! Vested interests abound. Did you hear that UK artist Damien Hurst’s ‘shark’ in formaldehyde is disintegrating? And an American had bought it for over $1million? I did smile....

not everybody WANTS to understand everything

isn’t that always amazing? Why not? Why spend your life scared? Etc etc….conformity has always scared me more than any alternative!

Vunil:

I remember I scored really strongly "N" which I think means I am floating in the theoretical clouds at all times. Sounds about right. This means I am exactly the opposite of Bunny. Which explains why I need her help so much!

Yes, being an intuiter can lead us to false assumptions, seeing patterns that we want to see, that maybe aren’t there to others. So it’s good to check our perceptions against what others see, check our assumptions against what we factually know. I had to learn this the hard way. And you’re right, bunny sees things differently and that helps.

[Portia]

Longtire:

being this way is more about how I am and how I talk about things, rather than WHAT I walk about. Is that INTJ enough for this thread?

Haha!   Yes! It’s all about how and why, forget the who, what and where. The facts don’t matter this time, it’s the reason why that matters. But it might be different next time too! I’m open to alternative suggestions….

Black and white is so far away from me, I only see the world in subtle shades of grey.

It’s so difficult doing those personality tests isn’t it? It depends……. I know. I have lots of opinions, some of them are contradictory…(joke).

"I'm the kind of person who likes x."

Mmm. Interesting. Almost leaving a possibility for change? What’s your favourite colour? What kind of music do you like? These sorts of questions drive me *nuts*. All colours! What for? Eating? Wearing? In a picture? Music? I haven’t heard everything yet, but most of what I’ve heard, I like!

Where do INTJ's hang out?

Have you seen www.intjlist.org ?

I know we are only <1% of the population, but there have to millions of others out there. How is it that it feels like I never run into others?

Oh you mean for real?!

Because they don't go out much?

Correct for me!

Because I don't go out much?

haha!

Where do we go when we do go out? Bookstore, coffee shop, grocery store, concerts, lectures?

Yes, yes, yes, no concerts, yes.

Probably not as much to clubs, sporting events, etc.

No. I reckon the ‘thinking’ sections in the library/bookshop. Psychology, social sciences, politics, philosophy, management books, hard sciences, travel?  But you know what we’re like. A total obsession for me at one time might be last year’s thing so there’s the problem, we don’t stay the same. Maybe I’ll get myself a small INTJ badge. Maybe I could sell them over the web – ha ha! - like we’d want to display our belonging to any group ! Independence is one watch-word. And perhaps our problem? I live with a male INTJ. I guess we’re eccentric but content (sometimes) with it. I think. BTW I love your revelations to self on your thread. Heart-warming stuff, seeing change in action. Heart-warming? Maybe I mean stimulating?

October:

Insanity is what I fear more than anything else.

I’m serious about your perceptive abilities above October, it opened my eyes. Do I fear insanity above all else, now, I wonder? I don’t fear insanity as such. Which way would I go? Towards not knowing where the voices were coming from – inside my head, or in external reality. I can see that, not knowing the difference and of course if other people tried to tell me what was real and unreal, I wouldn’t believe them because I wouldn’t know that they were real. Mmm. Do I fear that though. Not in itself. What I’d fear is the process of being driven insane. I know the circumstances that would drive me insane. Being trapped, tortured, having daylight removed, not knowing where I was, what day or time it was…not having any control of my world. On the other hand, I still fancy that desert island. So what do you fear about insanity? And how would you 'choose' to go insane? Schizophrenia or manic depression? Can you imagine being manic, actually physically moving around fast and too enthusiastically? I can’t see me ever doing that. If you think about how you might go insane, it might reduce the fear. Fear is usually of the unknown and the not-understood. Insanity is a catch-all description for losing the ability to know the difference between what’s inside your head, and what’s out there, in the touchable world. That’s all it is, getting the two confused.

Chicksquip:

I've caught myself wondering if INTJ's relate to God similarly to the way they relate to their fellowman? I mean, how does one's personality (speaking of Briggs Myers/Keirsey typing) affect the way they perceive God or relate to Him?

Big question. I don’t know. I don’t know what I mean by ‘God’, let alone what other people mean. I’m fascinated that apparently since we started to think, we had a notion of a superior being. Why? Is it because being conscious is too scary to contemplate without their being a reason? Why are humans able to think? I say, why not? Why does there have to be a higher being? Why do we ask these dumb questions? Because our brains are wired that way? What about our concept of time? What if it’s wrong? How does a rock experience ‘time’? Does it? Maybe not. Maybe it ‘experiences’ come kind of pure ‘existence’. The rock has a sense of ‘existing’ that is time-less.  Existing as particles, then as rock, as particles…etc.. IF and it’s a HUGE if, I relate to ‘God’ then yes, it’s exactly the same as I relate to other people. I think ‘God’ might be a part of us all, in some way, whatever, so it would seem to follow that…sometimes I bore myself and run out of words.

Is this question too weird?

Ha ha!   Did I already answer that?  

GFN:

or the prophesy-heehee

I don’t get it? Why is the test a prophesy? Sorry I’m being dense. Must have exhausted myself up there.

I recall, Portia, that you posted in the "Anything" thread that you go back and forth between INFJ and INTJ.

Yep! I also said in the first post here:

But really, I felt I was an INFJ and now I think I’m an INTJ.

Maybe that explains?

Can you tell when you are feeling more like one than the other?

I can tell when I’m responding with feelings. And if I think about it, I can identify where my feelings come from (in the present, or residue from the past). But in the final analysis, the thinking will prevail. Head or heart? Head.

PS. Random quote from the intjlist site:

He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife. - Douglas Adams

[Anonymous]

The problem I had with the description of ISTJ or whatever it was (sorry) was that it said a person was likely to be a quartermaster in the military and other wierd, uptight jobs that I would never have. That the person was really into bean-counting, which I'm not. That the person was totally into "just the facts" which I'm not at all.

And my intuition is quite powerful and important to me. I consult it all the time.

With that said, if people think I'm an ISTJ I won't argue any further. I still could be one.

bunny

[Portia]

Bunny, try this description: http://keirsey.com/personality/sjit.html note it’s the ‘Guardian’ role first and you seem a great guardian, both here and in reality from what you say about your sib’s children. About the intuition though, do you consult it, or act upon it? I.e. follow gut instinct even if the facts presented contradict the instinct? I always follow instinct when it’s important, even if the facts look good (or bad).
See also: http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/tt/t-articl/myers-briggs-3.htm
Extract:

How do you prefer to process information?
In the form of known facts and familiar terms
OR
In the form of possibilities or new potential
If it is in the form of facts or familiar terms, it is called Sensing, denoted by the letter S. If it is in the form of possibilities or new potential, it is called iNtuition.

But this is only for fun! To an extent, MB describe a whole person about as much as a star sign does, just maybe more accurately.

[bunny]

How do you prefer to process information?
In the form of known facts and familiar terms
OR
In the form of possibilities or new potential

What if I do both?
 
My intuition isn't a far-out, airy-fairy feeling. It usually gets corroborated very quickly by external evidence. Maybe my intuitive antennae are on high alert and already know things before they become apparent. I don't think intuition is based on thin air. IMO it comes from some unconscious or preconscious observations. These observations are in the form of somatic or emotional feelngs. Something like that. I'm sure it's more complicated and part of the brain that I know nothing about...

bunny

[vunil]

Just a devil's-advocate piece of the puzzle from and ENFP (no idea if we tend to be devil's advocates in general), but I don't know if the Meyer's Briggs has been shown to be super-predictive of behavior or how outside people view us. It is used primarily as a tool for helping people understand how they see themselves (not necessarily how they are) and for helping them understand that not everyone is the same.  

It's a really fun test to take and talk about, but is it a predictive personality test?

Anyway, that may be why sometimes it doesn't seem to be capturing the essence of things.  Except for introversion-extroversion, the dimensions aren't the same as the most-accepted 5 dimensions of personality. But, then, even those are argued about all of the time  

not trying to be a wet blanket, I swear!

And all of that said, when I read the ENFP description, it does sound exactly like me (at least to me!).  And even weirder, it also sounds like my astrological sign.  So who knows...

[Anonymous]

Back again bunny, just a quickie: this is from that site:

How do you prefer to process information?
In the form of known facts and familiar terms
OR
In the form of possibilities or new potential

What if you do both? - I think it's more about which do you prefer, given a choice? I get bored by the familiar so I go for new stuff, different ways, alternatives. I'm thinking work environment here. But that's given a perfect choice (and how often do we get one of those?)

Vunil what are the five please? And I'm kind of like my astro sign, but not extroverted as it suggests!

Bye for now Portia

[vunil]

re:  the "big five" personality traits:

openness to experience,  conscientiousness, extraversion, agreeableness, and neuroticism.


Who knows if these are right, or all-inclusive, or whatever.  But here is a cute site if you'd like to test yourself on these:  http://inst.santafe.cc.fl.us/~mwehr/X9PerB5.htm

have fun!

[Anonymous]

Hi Portia:

GFN: Quote: or the prophesy-heehee  

I don’t get it? Why is the test a prophesy? Sorry I’m being dense. Must have exhausted myself up there.

No you're not being dense.  See page 2 of the "Anything" thread, 20 ways to maintain your sanity.

I was just kidding around... .  I was could have explained that it was a joke.  

GFN

[Anonymous]

I taught Personality Psych for many years and had students take the Myers-Briggs among a whole array of objective personality measures. I had them take several in large part to see the variability in their scores between and even within themselves, and to illustrate the point that no objective (or for that matter projective) measure captures the complexity of a person's characterization of "self".  All of these measures can be really helpful in gaining insight on people's reactions to events and other environmental stimuli, but they certainly aren't very predictive.

One example that my students always responded to and enjoyed regarding the difference between Js and Ps was this:  If you have a double light switch and the top of the stairs and another at the bottom of the stairs, how many of you will fiddle with them until both switches at each location are in the same direction, either both up or both down AND if the lights are off, the switches HAVE to be in the down position at your current location?  The Js invariably respond that they struggle with this while the Ps think it's nonsense.

Also, while Isabel Myers was convinced that your type was immutable ("you should just tatoo your letters on your forehead for the world to see"), the evidence on stability of the scores shows that they are quite changeable.  I used to joke that I had "P-ness envy" because I hated to think of myself as a J (I used to test out generally asn an INTJ when I was married to a Narcissistic spouse), but I generally come out as an INFP these days. I figure that in reality, most of us are so complex that we can invoke any of the 16 types depending on the circumstances we find ourselves in.

Sorry to be so long-winded.

LaBoo

[CHICKSQUIP]

I never knew about this personality stuff until a few months ago.  I, like many of  you on this board come from  the family of Blame and  Shame and their extended family, Belittle, Demean, Ridicule, Fabricate...well, there are just too many to list here, but I know you know them.  Anyway, as soon as I found out that I am INTJ, Blame and Shame rushed in in a tizzy wagging those long bony fingers of reproach and almost convinced me that all the misery I experienced at the hand of my Nmom from the womb was my fault.  They said things  like, It was you who caused your poor mom to manipulate,  withhold affection, deny you individuality and emotional expression.  Oh my goodness, only half a percent are like you?  Time to throw away THAT mold!   Excuse the metaphors!   I tried  to  examine what results when  an infant INTJ  personality is subjugated  by an Nmom.  I know  it's pitiful, but I really did  think for a week or so that maybe it was all  my fault  after all.  I know in  my heart of hearts that it's not true, but I won't mind at all if you guys reassure me!

Now, about the intuition  part of the INTJ personality.  I have tons of  intuition.  The thing I find puzzling is that my mind seems to be selectively intuitive.  I never know what it will intuit, but I always know when it has.   I suppose if I spent time studying it, I might come up with some patterns.  I have never tried to 'will' intuition.  With me it seems to be or not independent of my will.  I'd like to  hear your experiences.

Kindest regards,
chicksquip

[CHICKSQUIP]

Longtire,

You asked in one of your posts, Where do INTJ's hangout?   Would you believe in their minds ?  I understand the context of your question, I'm just being cute!  Looks like there are a few of us on this board.  I appreciate your insightful posts.

Kindest regards,
chicksquip

[longtire]

CHICKSQUIP,
I image all the poor liitle kids with strong iNtuition who pick up on all the contradictory, self-serving crap of their parents and others and have no idea what to do with it.  No higher reasoning yet.  No INTJ mentors since we are relatively rare everywhere in the universe, except this board apparently.  No social support.  And yet, most of the INTJ's I interact with here or anywhere else are motivated, insightful, energetic, and caring.  Is INTJ the most connected and resilient type?  I could make a case.