Go It Alone

[FirstTimer]

Dear All,

I have been reading this board for a few weeks now, and so much of it has resonated with my experience. I can't thank you all enough!

I was wondering - is there anyone out there who has dealt with their nMom alone? I am in my late-20s. My father is out of the picture (divorce, abuse) and my sibling refuses to acknowledge anything is wrong. I'm single - no bf, even. So, while i have a therapist and some great friends - I am basically holding myself up here - through all the drama of dealing with the new realization of what has been happening to me for years.

It sounds like self-pity, which I have been trained well not to indulge in, but I would love to hear from others in the similar situation. Would you give your left arm for a shoulder to cry on some days? How did you handle it?

Thanks again for everything.

--Alone and Sometimes Scared

[joannwllc]

Hi,

I was an only child, so even though I had a dad I still felt very alone. You seem farther along in the recoginition of the problem than I was at your age. In my 20's I was very depressed, but had no clue why.

It is good that you are in therapy. The support is important. Do you live at home with your mom? If so, I think moving out if you can would be beneficial to you.

We are here for you. Take care, Jo

[Anonymous]

welcome!

Do you live with her? What is her modus operandi? There are usually ways to deal with these people. And yes, a support system is important, even if it's not family members. So you're already in a good position.

Can we get a little more description on the situation?

thanks

bunny

[FirstTimer]

Dear All,

Thank you for your replies.

I am actually not living with her. Luckily, she is now an 8-hour road trip away, which brings me some peace. I did live in the same city until about 2 years ago, and with her as an adult beforehand.

In truth, however, our geographic location is hardly relevant. She generally would call me about 900 times a day, anyways. While she did limit her calls (a little) when I was at work, the contact was basically constant.  I have managed to cut it down to about once or twice a day, which, while it may still seem excessive, is a huge feat for me.

One of the striking things about her behavior is her belief that she is the opposite. She characterizes herself as a martyr for her children, as all-giving, as self-sacrificing, etc, when in fact, she cares little for my needs at all. So, while she'd say she would be willing to donate an organ (with the associated guilt), asking her to refrain from calling during Seinfeld is a momentous request.  Her self-image is so precarious that even the implication of a complaint about her behavior is treated as treason.

Its strange. Alot of you mentioned that you have trouble making decisions - and that you hear your 'rent's voice. Like some sick WWJD - only WW-Mom-D  going through your head. That's me. I can't pick out a brand of toothpaste without hearing her voice ask "why not crest? I thought you prefered gel?"

Anyways... yes, I am seeing a therapist (though looking for a new one, as I just moved) and trying to sort myself out on my own, but i sometimes feel overwhelmed by the burden of independence, even in life's mundane tasks (buying a car, finding a job, moving) that the emotional hurdles I'm experiencing leave me feeling very weak.

Thank you all for your support!

--FirstTimer

[Anonymous]

FirstTimer:  I also and an N parent.  I was cluelss.  I just knew that I was contantly in the middle of my parents needs and wants and very little consideration was given to mine.  I also had an N mother in law.  Finally had to get an answering machine because she called so much.

I am glad to see that you have some distance between you with regard to miles.  Just let her call and don't answer the call.  You mentioning Seinfeld reminds me of George's mother and father, am I right?  They are totally clueles to George and unfortunately George is an N now as well.

Just keep going to see the therapist.  I think part of the fatigue you experience in making any kind of decisions is that fact you are still fighting your N mother off in any attempt at independence.  You still hear the "tapes" in you mind.  Just practice making those decisions and try to turn her "voice" off in your head.  It takes a great deal of emotional strength to recognize that  your mom is an NPD.  I did not realize what I had experienced until I was an older person.  You are much futher ahead of the game than you realize.  Patz

[Anonymous]

I have managed to cut it down to about once or twice a day, which, while it may still seem excessive, is a huge feat for me.

That's great! Do you talk to her both times, or does she leave messages?

Her self-image is so precarious that even the implication of a complaint about her behavior is treated as treason.

This is very controlling behavior with which I'm sadly familiar. My philosophy is not to complain to the person about their behavior. My strategy: I simply fail to do what they want and they learn that I won't fall into line. If they don't like it, they still get nowhere. Bottom line: hold your position and don't act guilty at all (even if you are). This teaches them to respect you. They won't like it, but they may get bored with you as a victim since you're not cooperating.

I can't pick out a brand of toothpaste without hearing her voice ask "why not crest? I thought you prefered gel?"

When this happens - and I am familiar with it - you can say to yourself, "Oh you're doing that mom thing again. Okay, which toothpaste do you want? You can have it! You're in charge now. Yay!"


What you may need help doing in therapy is the "separation-individuation" process. Your mother didn't go through this developmental stage with you, major parental failure on her part. But it can be done later. I went through this in my mid-30's.

keep up the good work. You're way ahead of me when I was your age.

bunny

[FirstTimer]

Thank you so much, Bunny and Patz...

When my mom calls, I answer. I'll tell you why - she has set it up that if I dont answer, I am dead. as a result, she'll keep calling. unless I'm driving or actually away from the phone, I'd rather pick it up than deal with the subsequent 10,000 phone calls.  And if I do let it ring, and ultimately pick it up - she'll say "where were you?"  if I say "I was in the shower, I didn't hear it." she'll respond with "were you really, or were you just saying that?"  ... I'm always potentially lying.... (though, in fairness, i learned how to lie very well to her over the years. just to lessen the pain - am I alone in this?)

As to the running maternal monologue in my head - perhaps that little sense of power and control is what makes me SO happy to shop for little things like dish soap. It makes me very happy to buy these things - perhaps because I get to make that little choice, for myself, on my own.

Can I just ask you guys - when does the feeling of it all being unfair go away? I dont expect my mom to change. I went through this with my dad. I understand the process. But I can't quite shake that "But, its not FAAAIR... " feeling - however childish i rationally know it is.

Thanks again! Really.. this is super-helpful.

--FirstTimer - or perhaps I should get a real username - how about - FlowerGirl

[Anonymous]

When my mom calls, I answer. I'll tell you why - she has set it up that if I dont answer, I am dead. as a result, she'll keep calling. unless I'm driving or actually away from the phone, I'd rather pick it up than deal with the subsequent 10,000 phone calls.  And if I do let it ring, and ultimately pick it up - she'll say "where were you?"  if I say "I was in the shower, I didn't hear it." she'll respond with "were you really, or were you just saying that?"  ... I'm always potentially lying.... (though, in fairness, i learned how to lie very well to her over the years. just to lessen the pain - am I alone in this?)

There are many times when I take the path of least resistance and many times when I just lied to make life easier. But if my mother were to call me 10,000x I would think: "No. This has to stop." What would I do: Let her call 10,000 times. After a few of these attempts, she might actually get bored with it. If you pick up on the 10,001th call (or the first call), she will learn that you will not be able to tolerate it, and will pick up the phone. So she has no motivation to stop calling. If you don't pick up at all, she will get bored. I would get a second phone number and start using it. Any calls to the previous number will be from your mom and you can ignore them.

If she said, "Where were you really? In the shower? Or were you lying?" I would reply: "Yes, I'm lying. I was simply not answering the phone because I didn't want to." I've done this before. It kind of stuns them. Even if their reaction is bad ("That wasn't very nice" or something), then I agree that it wasn't very nice. This ultimately scares them a little and they realize I'm not to be trifled with.

The feeling of unfairness of having a dysfunctional mother hasn't left me. I suppose it never will. But it's diminished so much that it isn't that big in my life anymore.

bunny

[Anonymous]

Flowergirl!  Great Name

Use those tactics bunny has listed.  Just be as "stunning" as you have to be.  Of course you are going to be the bad one you know. This is one way of setting boundaries with narc.   If she says "I cannot believe you have said this to me."  Reply "Yeah it is sad, would you like to continue the conversation, there is  more where that came from."  You have to stand up Flower.  What is the worse she can do......continue calling.  Maybe she has OCD and is a narc as well.  Patz

[Anonymous]

Thank you for the tactical tips!  You know, I've been talking to her too much this evening, due to a logistical thing we are working out, and i just can't explain why I always feel terrible whenever we hang up - even though nothing is really said. I have been working hard to resist my natural temptation to call back and say 'what's wrong?'... i guess i'm confusing my bad feelings with hers? ahh, the joys of being meshed.

The scary thing about "what's the worst thing that can happen" is exactly that realization. I mean, she *could* cut me off (and has for small periods of time) - but how bad *would* that be? As a child, it is tantamount to death. But, getting used to reassessing the downside as an adult is new.

Another question - since you guys are so great - do you find you dont know what "normal" is in social interaction. Take something simple - I always knew that wherever mom was going, I shouldn't be "in her way" - so I try to walk as "invisibly" as possible - which, as it turns out, requires guessing where your friend is headed. Which means I walk funny... probably annoyingly...  Clearly, abnormal.

Thanks again. Who are we rooting for in the Oscars? I am an Incredibles fan.

--L

[Anonymous]

I have been working hard to resist my natural temptation to call back and say 'what's wrong?'... i guess i'm confusing my bad feelings with hers? ahh, the joys of being meshed.

Actually you're confusing her bad feelings with your not-bad feelings. She creates an interaction where the other person feels GUILTY and will call her back so she can unload some more garbage. Don't call her back, no matter what. Don't give any more time to feeling guilty or responsible. You aren't. Watch the Oscars if it helps!

The scary thing about "what's the worst thing that can happen" is exactly that realization. I mean, she *could* cut me off (and has for small periods of time) - but how bad *would* that be? As a child, it is tantamount to death. But, getting used to reassessing the downside as an adult is new.

Right. It sounds better than 10,000 phone calls!

do you find you dont know what "normal" is in social interaction. Take something simple - I always knew that wherever mom was going, I shouldn't be "in her way" - so I try to walk as "invisibly" as possible - which, as it turns out, requires guessing where your friend is headed. Which means I walk funny... probably annoyingly...  Clearly, abnormal.

I don't know what a normal interaction is but I know what a creepy one is. So I guess normal is the absence of creepiness. Anyway, you can practice walking visibly even if it's uncomfortable at first. I'd say, "Oh I'm doing that invisible walking thing again" and stop doing it.  


bunny

[mirror2]

Hi FlowerGirl aka FirstTimer, you really sound like you're doing well.  My mother is bipolar and N-ish and I was in an N relationship from age 21 to 38, so you can imagine how well I was conditioned.  I totally had that walking behind thing down!  It takes a little time but you really can leave all that stuff behind as you learn more about yourself and what you really care about.  I've been free for one year today and could only recently even bear to post on this bulletin board.  While I still have a long way to go, I can look in the mirror and really see me these days, and even start to like the freckles and red hair and glasses without anyone's dialogue playing in the background.  What an amazing feeling!

On to the practical side of life.  I had to rebuild my life completely from scratch - no job, no home, kids to support, and my finances in ruin.  I have a little rule -- every day I try to complete one small thing that brings me more stability and one small thing that brings me peace.  I stick to just one item each day, and after a year things are really starting to fall into place.  I don't keep a to do list, because all the important stuff is in my head and I hate seeing things on the list day after day after day.  I do keep a journal, and this has been a great way to track the upward progress as well as to write down and let go the negative thoughts and feelings.

Best of luck, and think about getting a cell phone or second line and keeping the number private from your mother - I can't imagine being harassed like that!

Mir

[Anonymous]

Flowergirl,
In your original post, you said "would you give your left arm for a shoulder to cry on somedays?"
I think you have a whole lot of shoulders right here. And the best thing is they've all dealt with somone similar to your mom, so they're mighty sympathetic shoulders too. So anytime you need a good cry, here's the place.

I would suggest you just cut off contact with her temporarily, to establish a boundary and give yourself some peace, but it doesn't sound like you are ready for that. Maybe it is something you could talk over with your therapist, when you find a new one.
Godbless.

mudpup

[Anonymous]

Thank you all so much for your advice and support. I've entered a modestly more hectic period with my work, but am continuing to read up on the posts and may post again.  Your suppot this weekend was so very helpful - I really appreciate it.

--FlowerGirl