help!

[vunil]

Ok, I'm having a crisis and need some help, please!

I work in a job with a lot of n energy floating around.   In the past few months (or maybe longer than that, I'm not sure) a colleague has been working covertly and overtly to undermine me. She isn't my superior but has more political power than I do.   Today in a meeting she had her big coup d'etat in which she basically took away any say I have in the committee.   The others in the room are scared of her and/or think primarily of their own good and didn't back me up (all but one had promised that they would privately to me, without my asking).

Now I am wondering if this person is full-on evil.  I have asked my subordinates (who are more affected by her) and they think that she may be.  I feel really  alone because no one will stand up for me (or with me).  In the end she lies and manipulates and behaves in a way that is patently unfair and she gets away with it.  And there is a clear targeting of moi.

So, what do I do?  I can't quit.  I am committed to this job and to living in this town.  My instinct is to fight her but I can't imagine that I would ever win.  So, do I back way down, disappear a bit, and hope she finds someone else to target?  I know that communicating with her doesn't work because a memo I sent to the committee two weeks ago (or maybe three) outlining my goals/concerns/observations received no response from her.  None. Isn't that odd?

Just for a little perspective, I headed this committee last year when she was on sabbatical, so it is not odd (I don't think!) for me to have my ideas about things.  By all accounts (of everyone but her) things went really well last year. I think that she is feeling competitive and jealous.

Oh, another wrinkle to this is that she has the capacity to hurt me and to hurt those under me. I am pretty sure that she would do it, too.  And there is no possibility of ratting her out to anyone. The environment is so broken that she is revered and I would never win that battle.

thanks for the help!  I am just full of stress over this.

[Anonymous]

It sounds bad.   How important is this committee to you? Can you reprioritize it to the back burner? When I'm in a powerless situation I often let the more aggressive person have what they want. Then I vent to others about them and at least get private support. It sucks really bad when there is no recourse and a loose cannon gets to do whatever they want. But if I set it up so I don't care anymore, then in my view they have this annoying burden that I no longer want. And I hold onto the idea that those who liked the job I did still hold that opinion. I don't think people change their minds that easily. They are just cowards.

bunny

[Anonymous]

Hi vunil,
Wow! What a spot. I'm self employed so I don't have much experience here, although your co-workers sound like my family. She sounds big time N.
If you start a fight with the idea that you can't imagine you would win it, you almost certainly won't.
Gee, I thought I had some advice but I guess I should think about it some more before I say something stupider than usual.
This may not be any great comfort, but you know it is only a job. If the worst happens you will keep going.
All I can think of is put it on simmer for a time. Try and relax and stay out of her way while you decide your best course of action.
By the way is this a private or public organization?
Wish I could give you some help. Surely someone here can do better than this pitiful post.

 I know, maybe you could come work for me.

mudpup

[vunil]

But if I set it up so I don't care anymore, then in my view they have this annoying burden that I no longer want.

I can try this.   The problem is I feel pretty committed to the aims of this committee, and I have this hero complex (or just values, I guess) and I really believe in what I'm doing.  I probably will go ahead and step back for a year or so since I'll be giving birth and will have more important things to think about.

But I keep thinking that if those of us who aren't driven by immoral aims (e.g., power, jealousy, favoritism) don't keep fighting then the place just falls apart.

Argh.  I honestly don't know the answer.  Maybe you're right that giving up on the situation for the time being will help.  Something in me pulls against that.  Probably something from childhood...

Mudpup, it's a public institution.  Why do you ask?  Do you expect public institutions to be better or worse?

[shixie]

I know EXACTLY what you are talking about.  I too used to work in a place where unspeakable evil existed.  The covert sabatoging that went on throughout caused by 2 people was enough to make your head spin.  Oh boy could I tell you stories.  If you live in California, Washington or Oklahoma, you are in luck, there are laws protecting you.  This is actually called work place bullying.  If you don't live there, and are a member of one of the protected classes. Then I advise you to start keeping a journal of events, comments, witnesses and as detailed as possible, in case you need to file a discrimination lawsuit.  Also check you company's harassment and hostile work place policy and file a greivence.  Check out these links, the more you know about it the better you will be able to deal with it.  I actually have a lawsuit against my former employer and would be glad to help you with what I am able to. I have alot of information on this topic and lived through hell to tell about it.  

http://bullyinginstitute.org/
http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/
http://www.effectivemeetings.com/teams/difficult/bully.asp
http://ceres.ca.gov/tcsf/pathways/chapter12.html
http://www.mytoxicboss.com/
http://hr.dop.wa.gov/helpacademy/resource/hostlckl.htm

[Stormchild]

Hi Vunil, I'm Stormchild.

I'm new to this board but not to the situation you are describing. I work in the public sector too and it can be savage

I am sure that you're getting this treatment at work because you're good at what you do, and you've crossed paths with a bully. Here's a url that i found a couple years back. kept me from going totally bananas at the time. Guy in the UK, name of Tim Field, created this after he'd been trashed one time too many.

http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/

Someone on this site (here, where we are) actually uses Tim's tag line in their signature... those who can, do; those who can't bully. I can't remember who it is, but I sure hope they read your post. Tim talks about NPD, lots and lots.

Bunny's right on target. If this is a bullying incident your best bet is probably to back off, let the bully "win" and go underground. Most people don't stand up for their colleagues in a bullying situation, not directly, but you may be able to find out some history on this person, find out where she gets her power (is she cuddly with her Director or Branch Chief) and that can tell you where to move to get out of range, if you have to. You might know all that already...

I'll stop here but not without a hug -- ((Vunil))

Stormchild

[on edit -- hey, fantastic, Shixie is the person I saw with Tim's tag line! and has already come in like the Marines!!!!! You've got help for both angles now: combatant or non-combatant, depending.]

[donnaparadise]

This is a very old article from Oprah magazine.  I've been in the corporate world for 40 years and have run across the kind of person you have many, many times.  The tips included in this article are excellent and well worth the read and application.

http://www.oprah.com/omagazine/200308/omag_200308_beck_d.jhtml

I suggest you do not hide away and wait for it to all blow over.  I suggest you act as though nothing has happened out of place but set out to make the bully think you are in admiration and agree with her and are not a threat to her.  There is always something about anyone that you can find that is nice or good or capable about them.  You might compliment her on some suggestion she made, providing you agree with the suggestion.

I'm not suggesting you be phoney so do not go into the place that you 'need to be honest'.  Find some small thing that you can honestly say to her that is a good thing as far as her work performance or simply the new hairstyle.  Break the ice.  

You need to take charge of your own career and not expect anyone to back you up.  No on absolutely will.  You are on your own.  No one will help you.  No one will go to bat for you.  No one will fight your battles for you.  You have to do it.  You have to take responsibility and decide.

You have not told the whole story, for sure.  I'm just going from what you have written here.  However, I know that this is a very common problem that comes up in any and every organization.  If you want to stick it out a year, then you are going to have to get going and take charge of your situation.

Lots of luck
DP

[longtire]

Vunil,
Do a good job at what you do.  You know how.  Ignore the bully to the best of your ability.  Keep doing the right thing and people will eventually gravitate toward you.  Most people want to be part of an effective team so that they can be proud of their work.  People who are competant appreciate the same in others.  People who aren't, bully.

[Anonymous]

The problem is I feel pretty committed to the aims of this committee, and I have this hero complex (or just values, I guess) and I really believe in what I'm doing.  I probably will go ahead and step back for a year or so since I'll be giving birth and will have more important things to think about.

Then keep doing what you believe in to the best of your limitations. Usually things work out in the long run if you play your cards right.

Don't give up. But don't fight this woman on her terms. She's a past master and you'll lose. I agree with the poster who said to kiss up to her in some way to show her you aren't a threat. That is a great idea. I agree 100% with that strategy.

bunny

[mum]

Vunil: agggh, I hate this crap for you!.  Seen it before, makes me sick.........however, and I think Bunny had a better way of saying it: just that you really can't lose a game your not playing OR nobody can hurt you if you don't give a damn.  
Find a way to let it go, or put it in a box when you come home (pick it up in the morning if you wish), and in this way, maybe you can reduce the damage you do to yourself by obsessing and feeling bad about it.  It helps me to remember: "Attachment equals suffering"....I swear I will have that tatooed on my hand so I can see it every time it slaps my forehead! What is it you are attached to that makes this painful for you?  Taking the time to figure that out usually helps me to detach and let go.

If you can picture this big ego-woman going home to her empty or false life every day (didn't you say people are onto her, but afraid to say something? that must not make for a great, loving personal life....) maybe you can focus on your wonderful life (baby soon, lots of love, etc) and feel a little compassion for what must really be a mess of a woman.  That's tough, I know, but most bitches I know are really quite lonely and pathetic, even the married ones.  It's also possible that your happiness aggravates her....I know mine bugs my exN!

The idea of giving it time is a good one, too.  Maybe not a lot, but enough to know you are not reacting from emotion and ego bruising.  There was a great article by (my favorite teacher, yeah I know I mention her all the time) Pema Chodron in this month's Shambala Sun magazine about patience as an antidote for anger.  It's really interesting stuff.  Don't know if I can always do it, but always worth considering.

Hang in there....this too shall pass, and I do believe the trick is in not trying to change HER or the SYSTEM, but changing something you do have  influence over: your own thoughts and feelings on the matter.

[Anonymous]

The goals of this organization will still exist next year and the year after and the year after.  Sometimes it's necessary to lose a battle or two to win the war.  I would suggest that you patiently let things play out.  Do your job, stay in the background some and let her have the "rope", eventually she will hang herself with it.
LM

[vunil]

Wow, you guys, thanks!  Lots of food for thought and reading. I'm going to go do some reading and thinking and I'll give an update.  Maybe if I find a way out of this I can help other people in the same situation. And if I mess things up further I can provide information on what not to do!


I can't give lots of information about my job, but it definitely is a situation where covert action will be more successful than a lawsuit.  I myself would like some power (because I have ideas I'd like to implement, and I am committed to this organization) so I need to play the game at a pretty high level, maybe higher than I have been.  I had a lot more power while this woman was gone, and I liked it-- and boy am I realizing she did not, now that is back.

My problem is my desire to be real and open and honest and all of that, to avoid being like my very N parents who just lied (and lie) all of the time.  Somewhere there must be a balance between being savvy and being ethical.  Heaven knows most people at work gave that up long ago,  ever-shifting sea of utter lies that it is.   The truth value of what most people I deal with every day is always about 50-50, maybe worse.    And there are underlings who suffer from this-- I feel like their protector (they feel that I am, too).  That loyalty feels great for me but is causing all kinds of jealousy in this bully.

(Here's an irony-- the most ethical and trustworthy souls at my job are the women on the staff.  More power means more N-- that's something to really ponder).

If anyone wants to, I'd love to hear more about how they personally stay a good (not N) person at work, where sometimes things just feel like one big pool of narcissistic supply.  

This isn't the first bully I've encountered, and I have never handled it well.   Time to learn, I guess...

off to read

thanks again,
Vunil

[vunil]

Ok, one more question than I promise to go ponder:

What do you do when someone full-on lies to you at work?  Just utterly says something untrue?  And especially when they do it in a meeting?

Yesterday when it happened I sat there quietly, unable to know exactly what to do (and guessing calling her on it was a bad idea).  At my workplace there is a lot of coming to someone's office and saying one thing then saying the utter opposite thing in a meeting or to someone else. It's a little like Survivor.

I know it bothers me more than it might some people because of my background.  But those of you with the same background-- how to you handle it?  

It's primarily two people who do it. I guess I could just hope they leave

thanks!

[mum]

Vunil, I wish I could be more helpful.  I don't work in that kind of environment. I work in education, in an elementary school, where most people should have Saint in front of their names and most are women (sorry, guys, it just is).  The few non team players we have were outed long ago, and are not taken seriously.
I would just get out....and find another venue to pursue my goals....so I guess that's not exactly helpful, huh?
good luck with this......you will have a totally different perspective on things when you have a child...maybe that will be "grounding" for you.

[Anonymous]

Hi vunil,

Mudpup, it's a public institution. Why do you ask? Do you expect public institutions to be better or worse?

I guess I should have phrased it differently. The reason I asked was mainly about the size of the organization. Nearly all big oranizations, public or private are slow and ossified dealing with a situation like this. Also I was wondering whether there is a single boss who would cut a trouble maker like your's loose if you could document things. No covert political motives involved.

You don't seem willing to just curl up like a burnt feather so let me ask you a question. What are your and her supervisors like? If you can demonstrate she is affecting the organization,( or more importantly them) in a bad way would they still back her?

Somewhere there must be a balance between being savvy and being ethical.

 

I can help you with this. If you truly want to stand your ground it is not a matter of having to choose between ethics and effectiveness. I've said this before, but document everything! That means keeping a contemporaneous journal, not just making copies of memos or e-mails. If there is someone there you trust who is willing to keep one as well, have them do it.
If possible, make yourself indispensible to those who hold power over her.
Strengthen your alliances with what decent people there are.
Most importantly get inside her head so you can understand what she is doing and anticipate some of her behavior. Figure out what she most wants to avoid having revealed. No matter what kind of front they put up Ns are always terrified of the truth about them coming out.

Just consider this, if you stand up for yourself it won't be a short term proposition. And you have to be serious! You will regret going to the shootout at the OK corral with a rubber knife.
There are really two ways as you know. Hunker down and hope the bully finds another victim. Or hit her in the nose often enough until she finds an easier victim. However you have to be prepared to throw a lot of punches, because they don't give up easy. But there is no reason to lie or cheat, if you do choose to stand up to her. Not only is it wrong, it is counterproductive.
If you do choose to stand up to her I can give you some ideas on the mistakes I have made and the right things I've done with my brother.
Good reading.

mudpup