fragments of my story

[Portia]

Hi Sleepyhead, thanks for your kind words.

My mother had killed the joy of learning. But I got some of it back at university though  , when I could study completely "useless" subjects, just for my own pleasure! Still, it's tough for me; part of me want to do really well to please my mother, part of me hates being defined but what I accomplish and so refuses to do anything.

I don’t have an average IQ either but I only found that out very recently. I thought I was pretty dumb because people didn’t understand me. I don’t think being ‘clever’ is necessarily a good thing if not balanced with emotional understanding, compassion, the ability to empathise (high IQ people with very low emotional understanding are those most likely to be cruel and manipulating of others). Also clever people do not get rich! I think that’s true anyway – if you look at wealthy powerful people, they aren’t all that wise it seems. Not that being wealthy is that important, it’s the power over other people that stinks. How did I just get there? Oh yeah, how we view ourselves and get a warped view of our own abilities from our parents. I was so zoned out during childhood and continued at uni where I studied one useless subject – useless in terms of career, great in terms of practising logical thought. Nothing I could do now would please my mother, she’d be too envious if she cared at all. I have just myself to please really and that seems so little. Boo-hoo.   Sorry. I’m refusing to do anything right now, except be here, cook and clean for the man who lives here (why do I do that? I don’t depend on him and yet some of my attitudes belong to my mother’s generation), think a lot and wonder what it’s all about. The more I think, the sadder it gets. I’m tired of being angry and that’s a relief. But anyway! Who asked me about my day?  

Stormchild   - self disclosure! Here’s some: I’m still not sure why, when I stayed with my grandparents every weekend as a small kid, why I slept with my Nan in a double bed and granddad slept in another room. Maybe I had nightmares and needed company? I have no idea. I remember so little it’s a pain. Or maybe not. Bring on the disclosure! It won’t hurt. It’s liberating I think.

Sleepy, I’m impressed by your left hand typing! Some N info sites:

http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/six.html
one of my favourites although not exactly ‘scientific’ but loads of food for thought

http://www.toad.net/~arcturus/dd/narc.htm
probably more scientific

http://www.mentalhealth.com/
(scroll down to Personality Disorders for NPD)

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p960235.html
article

http://www.psychotherapy.com.au/august00/featart1.html

http://www.ippnj.org/mcwilliams1.html

http://www.rickross.com/reference/brainwashing/brainwashing11.html
dealing with manipulative people in general

http://www.mtoomey.com/violating_liberating.html
‘good’ anger vs ‘bad’ anger

[sleepyhead]

Hi there Portia! Thanks for the tips, it feels so good to be able to show my sister info, rather than her just cruising the internet and coming across those not-so-helpful sites. Not that I think she can't judge for herself, but since I'm the one who introduced her to the concept of NPD, she didn't get to discover it herself and might be more likely to "get lost". God, even I can't really work out what I am trying  to say, but I guess I just feel responsible? Actually I feel a bit guilty about telling her, isn't that weird?  It's not that she thought our mother was sane or anything, but I guess I don't want to tell her about my crappy experience of childhood since she is older than me and feels very responsible for my happiness and feels a bit guilty about leaving home when I was eleven. As if it was up to her to be my parent! Obviously I don't agree with her there, but it just spirals into this endless spiral of guilt!    Our mother taught us well how to shoulder her responsibilities.
 

But anyway! Who asked me about my day?

Listen girl: I like you very much, and I'm always interested in hearing what your day was like, whether it was crappy or good!   You are my friend (at least from where I'm standing), and friends like to hear about their friends' days, ok?

I totally agree with you about intelligence not being worth anything in and of itself. If you can use it to help yourself and others, then that's good, if not, what is the point? To win money on Jeopardy? To lord it over others like an N? I think this is why I've rebelled so much against the praise of intelligence and ambition that my mother is so obsessed with. I don't care if I ever become rich and "successful", as long as I am happy and surrounded by people that I love and who love me. Not that this is any easier than becoming rich.

Any way, about your Nan, I can think of one explanation, but hopefully that is just my sick, twisted mind working. At least it would mean that your Nan was very concerned with your welfare. But it's probably just one of those weird things that we do and think are completely normal until someone tells us that it's weird. Hey, for most of my life I thought it was completely normal to interrupt people, I didn't realize that people could get offended by it.  Oh, well, I know better now. Sorry for rambling on, but I don't have a job at the moment, don't know anyone here very well (except my f, of course, but he has a job), and pretty much don't have a life right now. Pathetic, huh? Plus, my hand is much better today (it really was just tiny surgery), so I'm back to boring you all to tears!    

[Portia]

Sleepy, you have TWO lives right now!  Correction, not ‘have’ – you ARE two lives. That’s more than enough, that’s wonderful.

she didn't get to discover it herself and might be more likely to "get lost". God, even I can't really work out what I am trying to say, but I guess I just feel responsible? Actually I feel a bit guilty about telling her, isn't that weird?  It's not that she thought our mother was sane or anything, but I guess I don't want to tell her about my crappy experience of childhood since she is older than me and feels very responsible for my happiness and feels a bit guilty about leaving home when I was eleven. As if it was up to her to be my parent! Obviously I don't agree with her there, but it just spirals into this endless spiral of guilt

How about you try telling her some of this, be honest about your feelings of guilt, responsibility and also about how you saw her as caring for you and how you want to thank her? Talking is good. Otherwise you could both end up needlessly worrying about each other through misunderstanding….

I'm always interested in hearing what your day was like

thanks sleepy!

You’re never boring Sleepy, and I’m glad you’re back to using both hands. I won't be able to keep up though!

[sleepyhead]

Oh, well, my name is already all over the top of the board, so I might as well post on my own thread again, I am getting to be completely shameless... Portia, I have tried to talk to my sister about these things, but you knoe it's hard to et rid of these stupid feelings after so many years of believing them. Anyway I e-mailed her yesterday and hasn't heard back from her yet, and I'm getting a bit paranoid. What if she can't see the N thing? What if she thinks I'm the crazy one? What if she hates me now?    In my rational mind I now that this is probably not true... But I just feel so scared and stupid, like I probably imagined the whole N thing, that our mother is well-meaning, just misunderstood... That I'm the bad one... Blaming her for everything when it's really my own fault... Having a bad day I guess.

[Anonymous]

Portia

Thanks for the wealth of information.

The more I can learn about N the better off I am.  Information is my weapon against X N.

Thanks again.
Mia

[Portia]

Mia, hope it helps, treat it all critically though!

Sleepy, you’re okay, this is normal thinking alright?

What if she can't see the N thing? What if she thinks I'm the crazy one? What if she hates me now?

She won’t hate you. If she thinks you’re crazy, you can blame the hormones!  She might not see the N thing exactly as you do. Phone her up. Say, “I was worried you might think I’m nuts! It’s the hormones” (that gives her an opportunity to say, “well actually I was a bit worried…”). She may not see it your way, this is perfectly possible.

That doesn’t mean that you’re ‘wrong’ or she’s ‘right’. No two people ever see an event the same way, even in a family, especially in families, where people have different roles assigned to them. Please make contact with her and dispel today’s demons. And tell the board, coz people here do understand. It's okay if she disagrees. If she does, listen!

In my rational mind I now that this is probably not true... But I just feel so scared and stupid, like I probably imagined the whole N thing, that our mother is well-meaning, just misunderstood...

This is normal and usual too. Denial of overwhelming thoughts! It’s okay. But I’ve read your posts, as has everyone else, and we see it that you were emotionally abused. The N diagnosis is a side issue – the fact that your mother treated you as she did is abusive. Please understand that first! take care, P

[Stormchild]

Wow Portia, thanks for the super links.

[Anonymous]

...high IQ people with very low emotional understanding are those most likely to be cruel and manipulating of others)

Hi all:

Gee.  I keep learning stuff that is so obvious I feel stupid.  Portia!  You're opening my eyes wide these days!!  Thanks!

Sleepyhead:

...the fact that your mother treated you as she did is abusive. Please understand that first!

Ditto what Portia said.

  You will not be doing that/repeating that when baby arrives!!!

You will be a great mom and you will do your best to show your child how loved and valued he/she is!!!

Please.....think good warm, loving thoughts for your baby and take lot's of time to relax and ponder how beautiful your child will be and the joy you will experience, once he/she arrives, and all the good things that come with being a mom and that the future of your new little family will hold.

I'm serious.
Hormones are one thing but aiming to achieve positive, happy, feelings by thinking good stuff can't hurt!!!

If any of this exploring/remembering etc. is upsetting for you, maybe it would be better to focus on it later?  Just a suggestion because I want you to take care of you and baby to grow in as happy a place as possible.

Take care, (((((((((Sleepyhead)))))))))).

GFN

[sleepyhead]

Hi all and thanks Portia and GFN. I feel better today. I couldn't phone my sister yasterday, since she was at work, and I only have her home number. By the time she would have gotten home I had calmed down and started thinking rationally again. I'm going to give her some more time to reply, she is quite busy (work and two small children). I realized that I was getting paranoid b/c I expected her to react like an N, which is ridiculous, since she's not one.

Anyway, you have a good point GFN

If any of this exploring/remembering etc. is upsetting for you, maybe it would be better to focus on it later?

I thought of this as well, but then I think that I want to sort as much of this out as possible before the baby comes, b/c I want to be able to be a good parent. And when the baby is here I know I won't have much time to deal with the N stuff. However, the last couple of days I have been thinking that I really need to do other stuff as well, so I will make a real effort. It is really sunny today, so I think I will go down to the sea (it is only a couple of minutes away and I love it, so I really should go there everyday). I will keep reading and posting, but I will try not to let it take so much of my time.

Portia, I'm really embarrassed!  A while back on this thread I forgot that you were in the u.k., and talked as if you were american.      I think on this one I must blame both the hormones and my being blond! Plus the fact that every time I see your name I get this picture of Portia de Rossi from Ally McBeal in my head...  Anyway, sorry! (Not that it's being bad to be American, just bad of me to forget this stuff).

P.S. The "halcyon" site is my favourite too, that's the one I already sent to my sister, I think she might prefer some of the more "intellectual" sites though.D.S.

[Portia]

Sleepy

so I think I will go down to the sea

go!   go now! I love the sea!

I wish about half of me was American sometimes. Don't be embarrassed, I like the idea I've never tasted soft pretzels *wistful*

GFN is right, take it easy, let the hormones do their thing. And GFN, those IQ ideas come from my reading, they're not original thoughts, I'm not that bright (thank goodness?)

[Anonymous]

Good morning all:

Hey Sleepy:

Great idea going down to the sea!  Oh that sounds marvelous!!  Take a breath of air there for me, will ya and soak up some of that sun too!  That is truly wonderful that you can walk there in a couple minutes!  Enjoy!!   Truly enjoy today!!!

I want to sort as much of this out as possible before the baby comes, b/c I want to be able to be a good parent.

Sleepy, I don't want to sound like a know it all but the fact is there is no quick fix for all that happened to us as children and it's effects.  It might take a long time to sort through and come to terms with.

You will be a wonderful parent, a very good mother... regardless.

How do I know that?

Because you want to so much and when people want something as much as that......they do all they can to achieve it.

And that's what I see for you.....doing all you can to be a good mother and you will be a great one!  Believe this about yourself!!!

So please.....try not to get too upset while carrying your baby because it's important to strive for a positive emotional state in you .....which does send positive vibes to your baby and can have an effect on both of your health and well-being.  

Maybe.....read some parenting books, talk to other parents you admire, search for helpful info on the net, learn about child development and the best ways to help children strive and survive in this world, ways to enhance their emotional stability, nutrition, stuff about play, discipline, etc etc.

The more information you gather, the more you will find ways to be that good parent that you so want to be.  It's not necessary to sort out all of your past right now.

It might even be best to leave it for a bit and focus on what you are going to do....rather than what has already happened.

I hope I haven't offended you.  I do believe parenting is a skill that can be learned.  And you'll have time to work on you too, along the way, which will help you to be the best you are able.

So enjoy the sea today and stop worrying, ok?

GFN

PS:  Hey Portia....I think you're quite bright but not in that N-ish way at all.
Thanks for sharing what you've learned from reading.  

[sleepyhead]

Portia: Yes! I went! It was great!  

GFN: Yes, I know it's not so easy to sort myself out, I've already had three bouts of therapy (aged 18, 23 and 30), two bouts of antidepressants, and I still find so many new things to change and work out... I guess it never truly ends! But having recently discovered the N thing, I don't think I'll be able to just ignore it for now, however, I feel ready now to let it take a smaller part in my life.

We're quite lucky in being among the last of our friends to have children, so we have had plenty of time to watch the others and figure out what seems to be a good way of parenting (and what is not). Hopefully this has helped us. I'm sooo glad we didn't have children when my f first suggested it five years ago.

I talked to my sister tonight, and the reason she hasn't mailed me yet is because she hasn't finished the e-mail yet! We must be more alike than I thought!  

Anyway, my f and I had some really good news the other day. He resigned from his job a few days ago, he really wasn't happy there, plus since I'm pregnant we want to move back home anyway. He had to give three months notice, so we expected to be here, business as usual, for another three months. Yesterday his boss called him to a meeting where he was told that it was company policy, since he hadn't worked there very long, that he be put on "gardening leave". So now he effctively has three months payed holiday!      This will help me not to spend all day on the computer!    We have to stay in the U.K. for almost two months (notice on the flat, etc.), so now we will spend two months exploring the countryside and all the sights! (Anyone in the U.K. want a visit? Just give me a shout. ) Just in time for spring as well... So, if I don't post everyday anymore, it is simply for good reasons, but I will keep in touch, just get away from the slight obsession and try to look at things more from a distance, a change in perspective is always helpful.

Talk to you all soon, hope you are all doing well (I've been so busy today that I haven't had time to read every new post     ). Take care and go out in the sunshine as often as possible!

((((Everyone))))